Eternal Security

[Doug Brents]

"cleanses us from all sin" This is a PRESENT ACTIVE INDICATIVE. The term "sin" is SINGULAR with no ARTICLE. This implies every kind of sin. Notice this verse is focusing on a one-time cleansing (salvation, 1 John 1:9), but on an ongoing cleansing (the Christian life). Both are part of the Christian experience (cf. John 13:10).

The present active case is not a one time cleansing, but a continual, always active, cleansing for as long as the present is currently present. It is active now, and now, and now, and now.... Continually cleansing, as long as the person is walking in the Light, from every sin (for all sin is equal).

 

[Grace ambassador]

I did say--in the sphere of the Holy Spirit brother-for if we don't have the Holy Spirit we are none of His.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Amen. I would also add:

Rom_5:5 "And hope maketh not ashamed; because The Love of God Is ​

Shed Abroad in our hearts By The Holy Ghost Which is given unto us."​

​

Amen.

 

[Doug Brents]

So which is it, The blood of Jesus continually cleanses us or completely removed sin from us. If we need to be continually clean that would indicate that we still sin.

Most certainly we continue to sin, and so continually need the continued washing of the Blood.

1 John 1:7 but if we [really] walk in the Light [that is, live each and every day in conformity with the precepts of God], as He Himself is in the Light, we have [true, unbroken] fellowship with one another [He with us, and we with Him], and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin [by erasing the stain of sin, keeping us cleansed from sin in all its forms and manifestations]. 8 Holly period9 If we [freely] admit that we have sinned and confess our sins, He is faithful and just [true to His own nature and promises], and will forgive our sins and cleanse us continually from all unrighteousness [our wrongdoing, everything not in conformity with His will and purpose]. 10 If we say that we have not sinned [refusing to admit acts of sin], we make Him [out to be] a liar [by contradicting Him] and His word is not in us.

Wow. This is exactly why I NEVER read the paraphrases of Scripture (like "The Message"). The authors of these paraphrases take Scripture and infuses it with his understanding and preconceptions, and sometimes totally changes what the text means.

It is not possible for man to live each and every day in conformity with the precepts of God, so that cannot be what "walk in the Light" means. That is why God sent Jesus to do it for us, and give us His righteousness in exchange for our sinfulness. Let me ask you, was Peter sinless from Pentecost until his death? No! We know he sinned, and lead others into sin, because in Gal 2:11-13 Paul tells us that he confronted Peter with his sin and helped turn him back to the Light. Remember James 3:1-2, "Do not become teachers in large numbers, my brothers, since you know that we who are teachers will incur a stricter judgment. 2 For we all stumble in many ways." We all stumble (sin) in many ways, even while walking the path in the Light.

 

[Johann]

The present active case is not a one time cleansing, but a continual, always active, cleansing for as long as the present is currently present. It is active now, and now, and now, and now.... Continually cleansing, as long as the person is walking in the Light, from every sin (for all sin is equal).

Notice this verse is focusing on a one-time cleansing (salvation, 1 John 1:9), but on an ongoing cleansing (the Christian life). Both are part of the Christian experience (cf. John 13:10).

What is a Aorist?

One time cleansing-Aorist-and ongoing cleansing-Present.
Morphology: V-ASA-3S
Verb - Aorist Subjunctive Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's no.: G2511 (καθαρίζω, καθερίζω)
Meaning: To cleanse, make clean, literally, ceremonially, or spiritually, according to context.

1Jn 1:9 IfG1437 Conj ean ἐὰν we should confessG3670 G5725 V-PSA-1P homologōmen ὁμολογῶμεν theG3588 Art-AFP tas τὰς sinsG266 N-AFP hamartias ἁμαρτίας of us,G1473 PPro-G1P hēmōn, ἡμῶν, faithfulG4103 Adj-NMS pistos πιστός He isG1510 V-PIA-3S estin ἐστιν andG2532 Conj kai καὶ just,G1342 Adj-NMS dikaios, δίκαιος, thatG2443 Conj hina ἵνα He may forgiveG863 G5632 V-ASA-3S aphē ἀφῇ usG1473 PPro-D1P hēmin ἡμῖν [our]G3588 Art-AFP tas τὰς sins,G266 N-AFP hamartias, ἁμαρτίας, andG2532 Conj kai καὶ might cleanseG2511 G5661 V-ASA-3S katharisē καθαρίσῃ usG1473 PPro-A1P hēmas ἡμᾶς fromG575 Prep apo ἀπὸ allG3956 Adj-GFS pasēs πάσης unrighteousness.G93 N-GFS adikias. ἀδικίας.

To forgive (hina aphēi). Sub-final clause with hina and second aorist active subjunctive of aphiēmi.

And to cleanse (kai hagiasēi). So again with hina and the first aorist active subjunctive of katharizō (1Jn_1:7).

 

[Hosanna]

Most certainly we continue to sin, and so continually need the continued washing of the Blood.

Wow. This is exactly why I NEVER read the paraphrases of Scripture (like "The Message"). The authors of these paraphrases take Scripture and infuses it with his understanding and preconceptions, and sometimes totally changes what the text means.

It is not possible for man to live each and every day in conformity with the precepts of God, so that cannot be what "walk in the Light" means. That is why God sent Jesus to do it for us, and give us His righteousness in exchange for our sinfulness. Let me ask you, was Peter sinless from Pentecost until his death? No! We know he sinned, and lead others into sin, because in Gal 2:11-13 Paul tells us that he confronted Peter with his sin and helped turn him back to the Light. Remember James 3:1-2, "Do not become teachers in large numbers, my brothers, since you know that we who are teachers will incur a stricter judgment. 2 For we all stumble in many ways." We all stumble (sin) in many ways, even while walking the path in the Light.

You're entitled to your opinion.

 

[Obadiah]

I don't think you can force it.

It's a fruit of the Spirit.

Love, joy, peace...

Go try making a fruit grow with willpower?!

Willpower can be very helpful in growing fruit.

You can use your willpower to put the mouse down and go outside and water. Fertilize. Cultivate. Nurture and protect.

 

[Hosanna]

I don't think you can force it.

It's a fruit of the Spirit.

Love, joy, peace...

Go try making a fruit grow with willpower?!

Looking at the four different kinds of love we discover the centrality of love in the Bible.

The Four Kinds of Love
A. Eros
B. Storge
C. Phileo
D. Agape: agape love sums up who God is and what He has done for us. God wants us to experience agape love.


The Priority of Love in the Bible
A. Love is the Priority Commandment: Jesus said, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.” Matthew 22:37
B. Love is the Perfect Gift: John 3:16
C. Love is the Preeminent Grace: Prevenient grace is a phrase used to describe the grace given by God that precedes the act of a sinner exercising saving faith in Jesus Christ.
D. Love is the Permanent Virtue: "but the greatest of these is love."
E. Love is the Proof of Sonship: We love him, because he first loved us · 1 John 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins 1 John 4:10
F. Love is the Prerequisite to Faith: love is virtue behind the other virtues, and it is what gives life to our spiritual gifts.
G. Love is the Path Upon Which Christians Must Walk: love isn’t merely an attribute God exhibits; love originates with God. So when God’s people love well, they reflect God himself.
H. Love is the Prescription for Happy Homes:

 

[Wilber]

@Hosanna
Most definitely God's love for his creation is what salvation is all about.

God’s love explains everything, whether it be the incarnation of Christ, his sinless life, his atoning death, his resurrection, and his return to earth, not to mention the very existence of heaven and eternal life.

All whom My Father gives (entrusts) to Me will come to Me; and the one who comes to Me I will most certainly not cast out [I will never, no never, reject one of them who comes to Me].
38 For I have come down from heaven not to do My own will and purpose but to do the will and purpose of Him Who sent Me.
39 And this is the will of Him Who sent Me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day”
40 For this is My Father’s will and His purpose, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in and cleaves to and trusts in and relies on Him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up [from the dead] at the last day.
41 Now the Jews murmured and found fault with and grumbled about Jesus because He said, I am [Myself] the Bread that came down from heaven.
42 They kept asking, Is not this Jesus, the Son of Joseph, Whose father and mother we know? How then can He say, I have come down from heaven?
43 So Jesus answered them, Stop grumbling and saying things against Me to one another.
44 No one is able to come to Me unless the Father Who sent Me attracts and draws him and gives him the desire to come to Me, and [then] I will raise him up [from the dead] at the last day.
John 6:37–44.

Jesus tells us explicitly in vs.39 that the will of the Father is that he “should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day”

 

[jeremiah1five]

I wasn't able to locate anything here on this topic so I figured I might as well Get the ball rolling. Let me ask this question.

Is there anything keeping you from accepting God’s free gift of salvation right now?

YES. The Permission of God.

Hopefully your answer is no. If not then the Holy Spirit is not done with you yet. Since salvation is a gift of God, there's nothing that we do to earn it, Do you think there's anything we could do to lose it? Would God take back a gift that he has freely given? Know this, God’s grace toward you did not stop with forgiveness. His grace will continue to be poured out on you forever! That was His purpose from the very beginning.

This truth underscores the depth of the love that moved God to begin with. Unlike the nature lover who stops to rescue an injured bird, God’s love goes beyond pity. He did not save us just to keep us out of hell. He saved us to guarantee an eternal relationship with us, a relationship in which we would continue to be the recipients of His kindness.

A question: “Do you believe you have the power to block the purposes of God?” Once God has made up His mind He is going to do something, do you think you have the power to throw a wrench into the works and foul things up? To believe that a man or woman can lose his or her salvation is to believe that a human being can frustrate the eternal purpose of God. Good luck with that one!

God has plans for all of us who were dead in our trespasses and sins and have been made alive with Christ. To hold to a theology in which man can do something that throws him back into a state of spiritual deadness, thus denying God His predetermined purpose, is to embrace a system in which man is in the driver’s seat and God is just a passenger.

One final thought, is that we Can not undo what God has already done. We're just not that powerful.

 

[dwight92070]

YES. The Permission of God.

In any relationship between two persons, each of the two have things that they must do to maintain the relationship. For example, imagine a husband who tells his wife that he will always love her, be faithful to her, and he will never leave her until death, but there are some reasonable things that he expects from her. Well, she is so happy and secure in his love, that oftentimes she will forget about and even ignore his expectations. In fact, she even boasts to the other wives, "Meeting my husband's expectations is not a high priority for me because no matter what I do or don't do, he has promised that he will always love me, be faithful to me, and never leave me. In fact, it's probably better that I totally ignore his expectations, or he might think that I'm trying to earn his love."
Well, what do you think would happen to this marriage? First of all, the husband would be very disappointed in his wife. So he talks to her about it, but she won't listen, but instead persists in ignoring his requests. He continues to talk to her, but she continues to pay little or no attention. It won't be long before his disappointment turns to anger, and if she still persists, it could lead to a divorce

God is the husband. We are his wife (or Biblically, bride). He has given us "His precious and magnificent promises" 2 Peter 1:4. He promises that He will always love us, be faithful to us, and that He will always keep us. He does, however, have some reasonable expectations from us. What are they? Here are a few:
Keep His word John 17:6
Keep yourselves in the love of God Jude 21
Keep His command to persevere Revelation 3:10
Keep yourselves from idols 1 John 5:21
Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation Matthew 26:41
Be dressed in readiness, and keep your lamps lit Luke 12:35
If you love Me, you will keep My commandments John 14:15
those who have believed God will be careful to engage in good deeds Titus 3:8
Be saved from this perverse generation Acts 2:40
Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and does them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on a rock. Matthew 7:24
he who abides in Me and I in Him, he bears much fruit John 15:5
keep the faith 2 Timothy 4:7
flee immorality 1 Corinthians 6:18
etc., etc. etc.

Our relationship with God is not a one-way relationship, just like a marriage, which is a two-way relationship. He will keep us, but we must also keep ourselves.

 

[jeremiah1five]

In any relationship between two persons, each of the two have things that they must do to maintain the relationship. For example, imagine a husband who tells his wife that he will always love her, be faithful to her, and he will never leave her until death, but there are some reasonable things that he expects from her. Well, she is so happy and secure in his love, that oftentimes she will forget about and even ignore his expectations. In fact, she even boasts to the other wives, "Meeting my husband's expectations is not a high priority for me because no matter what I do or don't do, he has promised that he will always love me, be faithful to me, and never leave me. In fact, it's probably better that I totally ignore his expectations, or he might think that I'm trying to earn his love."
Well, what do you think would happen to this marriage? First of all, the husband would be very disappointed in his wife. So he talks to her about it, but she won't listen, but instead persists in ignoring his requests. He continues to talk to her, but she continues to pay little or no attention. It won't be long before his disappointment turns to anger, and if she still persists, it could lead to a divorce

God is the husband. We are his wife (or Biblically, bride). He has given us "His precious and magnificent promises" 2 Peter 1:4. He promises that He will always love us, be faithful to us, and that He will always keep us. He does, however, have some reasonable expectations from us. What are they? Here are a few:
Keep His word John 17:6
Keep yourselves in the love of God Jude 21
Keep His command to persevere Revelation 3:10
Keep yourselves from idols 1 John 5:21
Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation Matthew 26:41
Be dressed in readiness, and keep your lamps lit Luke 12:35
If you love Me, you will keep My commandments John 14:15
those who have believed God will be careful to engage in good deeds Titus 3:8
Be saved from this perverse generation Acts 2:40
Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and does them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on a rock. Matthew 7:24
he who abides in Me and I in Him, he bears much fruit John 15:5
keep the faith 2 Timothy 4:7
flee immorality 1 Corinthians 6:18
etc., etc. etc.

Our relationship with God is not a one-way relationship, just like a marriage, which is a two-way relationship. He will keep us, but we must also keep ourselves.

Quite impossible to "keep ourselves [perfectly]" while in this body of this death.

 

[dwight92070]

Okay, then in that case, just ignore those verses.

 

[Ahar]

YES. The Permission of God.

I don't understand why one would need permission to accept a free gift. Seems like Christ's sacrificial death on the cross would be all the permission needed. Except that by faith and you're in the car. Rather than permission, Grace sounds like a better alternative. Maybe permission and Grace go hand in hand, I don't know.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I don't understand why one would need permission to accept a free gift. Seems like Christ's sacrificial death on the cross would be all the permission needed. Except that by faith and you're in the car. Rather than permission, Grace sounds like a better alternative. Maybe permission and Grace go hand in hand, I don't know.

You have a universalist approach to the Lord's salvation.
Christ died according to the Scriptures.
The Scriptures say Christ was given to covenant Israel.
He is a gift to them and is given as part of God's covenant with His Chosen Israel. Christ was sent to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. And according to the Scriptures He taught Israel.
God made no covenant with Gentiles. There is NO COVENANT in the Law, Psalms, and Prophets of God making covenant with Gentiles.
Yet, God saves Gentiles in this present era without a covenant. Overall, Gentiles got nothing coming to them of God, but God has set Israel as a light to Gentiles but in the strict sense of any word salvation is OF THE JEWS.

 

[Ahar]

I have a Christian approach towards salvation found in the gospel. Universal salvation is a heretical idea that was imported into Christianity from pagan philosophies that I have nothing to do with. Wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole.

Gave me the New Covenant, You know the one that God will forgive sin and restore fellowship with those whose hearts are turned toward Him. Jesus Christ is the mediator of the New Covenant, and His death on the cross is the basis of the promise.

In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, 'This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.
Luke 22:20

The New Covenant was predicted while the Old Covenant was still in effect—the prophets Moses, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel all allude to the New Covenant.

The question of whether or not salvation is forever is not an isolated one. Our answer to this question affects every facet of one’s theology.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I have a Christian approach towards salvation found in the gospel. Universal salvation is a heretical idea that was imported into Christianity from pagan philosophies that I have nothing to do with. Wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole.

Gave me the New Covenant, You know the one that God will forgive sin and restore fellowship with those whose hearts are turned toward Him. Jesus Christ is the mediator of the New Covenant, and His death on the cross is the basis of the promise.

Yes, but the New Covenant doesn't apply to you unless you are House of Israel or Judah.

In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, 'This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.
Luke 22:20

The New Covenant was predicted while the Old Covenant was still in effect—the prophets Moses, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel all allude to the New Covenant.

The question of whether or not salvation is forever is not an isolated one. Our answer to this question affects every facet of one’s theology.

And what Law did God promise to put in the inward parts of covenant Israel but the Mosaic Law.

 

[Ahar]

After the resurrection of Christ, God in His grace brought the Gentiles into the blessing of the New Covenant also.

So Peter opened his mouth and said: “Truly I understand that God shows no partiality, but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.
Acts 10:34-35

But now you have been united with Christ Jesus. Once you were far away from God, but now you have been brought near to him through the blood of Christ.
Ephesians 2:13–14
Another aspect of the New Covenant is that Gentiles can be “grafted into the tree of Israel” by faith in Jesus, the King and Messiah of Israel

Did God’s people stumble and fall beyond recovery? Of course not! They were disobedient, so God made salvation available to the Gentiles. But he wanted his own people to become jealous and claim it for themselves.
Romans 11:11

 

[dwight92070]

Yes, but the New Covenant doesn't apply to you unless you are House of Israel or Judah.

And what Law did God promise to put in the inward parts of covenant Israel but the Mosaic Law.

Not true. Jeremiah 31:31-32 says that the new covenant is "not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them ... out of the land of Egypt." - which is the Mosaic Law. So no, the new covenant put in our hearts is not the Mosaic Law.

And yes, the new covenant does apply to Gentile believers.

"But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall ... that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace." Ephesians 2:13-15

For He Himself is our peace In Christ, "there is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then your are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to the promise." Galatians 3:28-29

So Gentile believers are not only heirs of the Abrahamic Covenant but also of the New Covenant.

"I have other sheep, which are not of this fold (Gentiles); I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd." John 10:16

The Jews are no longer God's chosen people. Those in Christ, Jew and Gentile, "are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession." 1 Peter 2:9

Jesus loved the Gentiles as well as the Jews. He wanted to bring them into the fold. So he reached out to the Samaritan woman in Sychar and she was used by God to bring many from that city to their Messiah. The Samaritan's, who were part Jew, part Gentile, came to understand that Jesus was "indeed the Christ, the Savior of the world", not just the Jews. John 4:42

 

[Aeliana]

To deny eternal security means the possibility exists that some of us who come to Jesus will in fact be cast out. It means the possibility exists that the will of the Father and of the Son that all "born-again believers" be raised up on the last day will not, in fact, be fulfilled. It means that although Jesus is determined to ensure that every born-again Christian is fully and finally saved, the possibility exists that every born-again Christian might be fully and finally damned for eternity. Are you prepared to say that?

 

[Doug Brents]

Yes, but the New Covenant doesn't apply to you unless you are House of Israel or Judah.

In a way, yes. But not the way you are speaking of it.
When one obeys the Gospel, if they are of biological descent from Jacob, then they are grafted back into Israel (Spiritual Israel) for they were cut off from Israel due to unbelief, if they are not of biological descent from Jacob then they are grafted into Spiritual Israel for the first time (Rom 11:17-36).

And what Law did God promise to put in the inward parts of covenant Israel but the Mosaic Law.

Not the Mosaic Law, no. It says "My Law", thus the Law of God. The Old Covenant Law (Law of Moses, Mosaic Law) was temporary in nature, and was cast out (like Ishmael and his mother) when the real heir (Jesus) came (Gal 4:21-31).