Affinity
Member
You have to be sold out for Jesus! You have to have Jesus on the inside working on the outside.
Eternal Security
- Thread starter Ahar
- Start date
Affinity
Member
You really can't see the if there can you. It says what it says nobody's making it say anything. God won't allow you to lose your salvation. Have you ever met anyone that's lost their salvation. I hope you help them look for it. Call me and I'll bring my dog. It's not making the Bible say what we want it to say. It's a discussion. Everything I talk about at home Bible study is not in the Bible Per se It may be inferred. It might even be a paraphrase. That happens we are on the internet after all.
Rockson
Well-known member
What??
Hosanna
Well-known member
The logic of this devotion makes sure of my eternal security. I'm valuable to God. Jesus shed his blood for me.
Promise #289:
If I look after the sparrows, I will certainly look after you.
Luke 12:6-7 (WEB)
6 “Aren’t five sparrows sold for two assaria coins? Not one of them is forgotten by God.
7 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Therefore don’t be afraid.
You are of more value than many sparrows.
I love this passage of Scripture where Jesus tells us how important the sparrows are to God. Even though they do not have much value to us, He will not even forget one of them. In Matthew 10:29 Jesus tells us that not even one of them will fall to the ground apart from His Father's will. This is the value He places on a single bird!
But then Jesus goes on to tell us that we have a value to God worth more than many sparrows! So if God looks after and watches over these little birds, how much more will He watch over us? Our value to God far exceeds the birds of the air who neither sow or reap or store into barns (Matthew 6:25-34).
The next time you are feeling anxious about the future, just take a moment and look at a bird, or a squirrel, or a tree for that matter. God provides for all that He created because that is simply what good fathers do. If He looks after even the most insignificant of His creation, will He not also look after you?
Father Heart Communications
Promise #289:
If I look after the sparrows, I will certainly look after you.
Luke 12:6-7 (WEB)
6 “Aren’t five sparrows sold for two assaria coins? Not one of them is forgotten by God.
7 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Therefore don’t be afraid.
You are of more value than many sparrows.
I love this passage of Scripture where Jesus tells us how important the sparrows are to God. Even though they do not have much value to us, He will not even forget one of them. In Matthew 10:29 Jesus tells us that not even one of them will fall to the ground apart from His Father's will. This is the value He places on a single bird!
But then Jesus goes on to tell us that we have a value to God worth more than many sparrows! So if God looks after and watches over these little birds, how much more will He watch over us? Our value to God far exceeds the birds of the air who neither sow or reap or store into barns (Matthew 6:25-34).
The next time you are feeling anxious about the future, just take a moment and look at a bird, or a squirrel, or a tree for that matter. God provides for all that He created because that is simply what good fathers do. If He looks after even the most insignificant of His creation, will He not also look after you?
Father Heart Communications
Seabass
Active member
John 10:27-
Jesus, not me, is the One Who used the sheep analogy, hence your disagreement is with Jesus.
The context shows there are necessary conditions (hear & follow Christ- present tense verbs) that MUST be CONTINUALLY met to be of those who shall never perish, v28. God NEVER made salvation an UNconditional promise.
Seabass
Active member
We find Matthew's account of Luke 12:6-7 in Matthew 10:26-27. From the context, Christ is speaking to His Apostles (Mt 10:1-4) INCLUDING JUDAS giving them what is sometimes called the limited commission.
In this context we find Judas was:
--given power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease, v1
--given miraculous gifts -- Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give, v8
--called a SHEEP in this midst of wolves, Judas was not a wolf himself, v16
--given inspiration by the Holy Spirit as to what he would speak, vs 19, 20
--would be saved if he endureth to the end, v22
--God is called the Father of Judas, vs 20, 29.
--receiving Judas was the same as receiving Jesus, v40.
NOTHING anywhere remotely indicates that Judas was "always lost, never saved" but rather that Judas was in a saved position from which he fell by transgression. Lk 6:13 Judas was a disciple of Christ, a possession of Christ, Judas was of "His (possessive pronoun) disciples". Judas was given to Christ by God and had the gift of eternal life (Jn 17:2,6), Judas was kept by Christ but BECAME lost (v12).
If I gave you 12 different colored pencils to keep and later you come back to me saying here are all the colored pencils except for the red one that was lost, you could not say that unless you were first given and kept the red one....see v12.
Rowan
Active member
Judas had been with Christ at campfires and had heard His sermons and teachings. He had been involved in the camaraderie and the special education that a person gets when with a small group. Despite this, Judas never saw Jesus clearly enough to motivate a change in his life. He was a thief from the beginning.
Obadiah
Well-known member
Yes I agree. Judas had faith, but it was not a true saving faith. Judas was never “saved,” but for a time he was a follower of Christ. He was getting a free lunch and had his hand in the money bag. That was his MO And he never changed. He did have a tinge of regret but even then he took the cowards way out.
Seabass
Active member
Jn 6:64
.....Jesus knew from the beginning who should betray Him.....
Jesus NEVER said Judas was "always a devil" nor that "Judas was always a thief" or that "Judas was always lost" or he was "always a betrayer" but the verse says that He KNEW from the beginning who should betray Him.
Again, NOTHING in the NT suggests Judas was "always lost, never saved".
.....Jesus knew from the beginning who should betray Him.....
Jesus NEVER said Judas was "always a devil" nor that "Judas was always a thief" or that "Judas was always lost" or he was "always a betrayer" but the verse says that He KNEW from the beginning who should betray Him.
Again, NOTHING in the NT suggests Judas was "always lost, never saved".
Azriel
Well-known member
On that day, many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons and do many powerful deeds?’ Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you. Go away from me, you lawbreakers!’
They called Christ, “Lord,” prophesied, cast out demons, and did miracles but Christ said he never knew them. We're talking about the perfect example of this in Judas. Judas was empowered by Christ, through the Spirit, to preach, cast out demons, and heal people. And yet, at the same time, Christ taught that Judas was never truly saved. Christ said all the disciples were “clean”—referring to being cleansed from sin—except for Judas John 13:10-11
He said one of them was a “devil” John 6:70 and that the one who would betray him was “destined for destruction” John 17:12—both referring to Judas.
Also what was said in Hebrews 6:4-6 could be said of him: Judas had tasted of the heavenly gift, the Spirit, God’s Word, but never truly embraced them, eventually leading to apostasy, as he betrayed Christ.
By Judas’ continual exposure to God’s grace and his continual rejection of it, he had hardened his heart. If a professing believer turns away from God and never returns, then he was never born again.
They called Christ, “Lord,” prophesied, cast out demons, and did miracles but Christ said he never knew them. We're talking about the perfect example of this in Judas. Judas was empowered by Christ, through the Spirit, to preach, cast out demons, and heal people. And yet, at the same time, Christ taught that Judas was never truly saved. Christ said all the disciples were “clean”—referring to being cleansed from sin—except for Judas John 13:10-11
He said one of them was a “devil” John 6:70 and that the one who would betray him was “destined for destruction” John 17:12—both referring to Judas.
Also what was said in Hebrews 6:4-6 could be said of him: Judas had tasted of the heavenly gift, the Spirit, God’s Word, but never truly embraced them, eventually leading to apostasy, as he betrayed Christ.
By Judas’ continual exposure to God’s grace and his continual rejection of it, he had hardened his heart. If a professing believer turns away from God and never returns, then he was never born again.
Seabass
Active member
Heb 2:9
It is said of Jesus that He "should taste death for every man" and "taste" means He really died and not that He just 'seemed' to have died no more than those in Heb 6 'seemed' to be Christians when they were in fact Christians.
Twice in Matt 10 God is said to be "your Father" of Judas and Judas was numbered among sheep not wolves and had the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
It is said of Jesus that He "should taste death for every man" and "taste" means He really died and not that He just 'seemed' to have died no more than those in Heb 6 'seemed' to be Christians when they were in fact Christians.
Twice in Matt 10 God is said to be "your Father" of Judas and Judas was numbered among sheep not wolves and had the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
Ray
Member
I hate it when I'm under the inspiration of the holy spirit and I deny Jesus like Judas did. Yeah I hate it when that happens. No wait a minute how could you be under the inspiration of the holy spirit and denied Jesus? Explain that one. And since he was being led by the holy spirit why did he feel bad about it and try to give the money back to the priests? Or commit suicide. I don't think anyone commits suicide under the inspiration of the holy spirit. Maybe he only had a "taste" of the holy spirit. Yeah that's the ticket.
But seriously maybe it was something like when God hardened Pharaoh's heart.
Dizerner
Well-known member
The Gospel of John shows that something was wrong with Judas early on. In John 6:64-70, after various people have walked off because they don’t understand Jesus’ teaching about eating his flesh and drinking his blood, one of his disciples commented on how hard Jesus’ teaching was. Jesus responded, “the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But there are some of you who do not believe” John 6:64-65 Later the disciples continue following him, and Jesus warns them that although he chose all 12 of them, “one of you is a devil!” John 6:70
Seabass
Active member
Peter as Judas was inspired by the Holy Spirit and Peter denied Christ thice (Mt 26:72ff) and one occasion Paul has to withstand Peter to the face for sinning (Gal 2:11) with Peter standing "condemned". Even after God miraculously gave Peter a vision in Acts 10 that the Gentiles were "clean" and salvation of the gospel was to go to them, Peter still withdrew from the Gentiles fearing the Jews. The fact Peter stood "condemned" does prove a child of God can fall away becoming lost.
Below are links dealing with the Greek word "condemned" of Gal 2:11:
When Peter Stood Condemned
When Peter refrained from association with the Gentiles at Antioch, Paul declared that he "stood condemned." Does this mean that, at least potentially, Peter could have been lost? Study this intriguing issue with us.
christiancourier.com
Galatians 2:11 -- A Confrontation with Peter
Consider these two points gleaned from Paul's confrontation with the apostle Peter.
christiancourier.com
Therefore, even though th Aposltes were inspired that inspiration was not an unconditional guarantee of their salvation regardless of how they lived.........
Did Peter's Weakness Negate His Inspiration?
It is sometimes claimed that the Bible is inconsistent in its theology in that it claims infallibility for the apostles' teaching, yet acknowledges they made mistakes in their personal lives. How does one address this alleged difficulty?
christiancourier.com
Ray
Member
Nice, a lot of good study material there.Peter as Judas was inspired by the Holy Spirit and Peter denied Christ thice (Mt 26:72ff) and one occasion Paul has to withstand Peter to the face for sinning (Gal 2:11) with Peter standing "condemned". Even after God miraculously gave Peter a vision in Acts 10 that the Gentiles were "clean" and salvation of the gospel was to go to them, Peter still withdrew from the Gentiles fearing the Jews. The fact Peter stood "condemned" does prove a child of God can fall away becoming lost.
Below are links dealing with the Greek word "condemned" of Gal 2:11:
When Peter Stood Condemned
When Peter refrained from association with the Gentiles at Antioch, Paul declared that he "stood condemned." Does this mean that, at least potentially, Peter could have been lost? Study this intriguing issue with us.Galatians 2:11 -- A Confrontation with Peter
Consider these two points gleaned from Paul's confrontation with the apostle Peter.
Therefore, even though th Aposltes were inspired that inspiration was not an unconditional guarantee of their salvation regardless of how they lived.........
Did Peter's Weakness Negate His Inspiration?
It is sometimes claimed that the Bible is inconsistent in its theology in that it claims infallibility for the apostles' teaching, yet acknowledges they made mistakes in their personal lives. How does one address this alleged difficulty?
Doug Brents
Well-known member
There is absolutely no difference between what Judas did and what Peter (and all the other Apostles) did in denying Jesus that same night.
But Peter (and the rest) repented and were reunited with Christ after His resurrection. Judas, on the other hand, murdered himself in his grief before he could be reconciled. Peter was forgiven and reconciled, and is now in Heaven; Judas was not forgiven and was not reconciled, and is now in Hell.
Rowan
Active member
I've actually debated this topic before believing Judas may have gone to heaven or could have. Needless to say I didn't do very well. The bottom line that got me was: In John 17:12, Jesus, in reference to Judas Iscariot, says that of all his disciples, none has been lost except the "son of perdition".
You can't argue with that one. Could have been saved had enough committed suicide? If Jesus had caught up with him after the resurrection And Judas had repented and asked for forgiveness. Doesn't really matter because that's not what's happened, Just something to think about.
Grace ambassador
Well-known member
Precious friend, it is probably best just to think on The Truth Of The Scriptures Themselves,
rather than on ' hypotheticals' - these just lead to what God Calls, In His Scriptures:
Tit_3:9 "But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions,
and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain."
This is God's Way:
Php_4:8 "Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest,
whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely,
whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise,
think on these things."
Amen?Doug Brents
Well-known member
I don't understand your comment at all. I am not arguing that Judas was saved. I said explicitly that he is in Hell. But he could have been saved if he had repented as Peter did (although that was not God's plan). Peter's sin was equal to Judas' sin in that both equally denied the Lord God, and Peter could equally be in Hell right now if he had not repented. But Peter did repent; Judas did not. Peter is in Heaven; Judas is not.
Rowan
Active member
Sorry for the confusion. My point was at one time I believed Judas may have gone to heaven until I was shown otherwise.
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