Eternal Security
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makesends
Well-known member
Not gibberish. The notion, "the past and the future exist right now" is a statement dependent on right now, but "now" is irrelevant in assessing the question of whether, from God's POV (which is the only reality), the past and future are existent.
Again, OUR point-of-view is not truth. We speak from it, but it is necessarily lacking perspective.
Diserner
Well-known member
This is a good point, God is outside of time.
Rockson
Well-known member
My point with the poster was to say you can't come forth and speak something in an instance (past and future) without it being a point in time or a point of something.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
Indeed, the promise is not annulled by the Law. The inheritance was always by promise, as it is to us today. But that does not stop the conditional nature of receiving the promise. The nation of Israel would not have received the Land if they had not performed the conditions that God placed on receiving the Land (marching around Jericho, killing all the inhabitants, etc.). And they didn't kill everyone they were supposed to because they made treaties with some nations (by deceit on the part of the other nations) that they were commanded to kill, and so they had strife with those nations the entire time they were in the Land.
So too, with us today. There are conditions for receiving the promise of salvation: repentance, confession of Jesus' name, and baptism.
Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved - conditional statement
Acts 3:19 - Repent so that sins are removed and times of renewing will come from the Lord - conditional statement
Rom 10:9-10 - If you repent and confess you will be saved - conditional statement
And there are many more statements of these three conditions.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Christ fulfilled all conditions, all the heirs enter into the inheritance based upon that.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
Christ fulfilled all the conditions to secure salvation, that is true.
But He does not "obey the Gospel" for you (Acts 6:7, 2 Thes 1:8, 1 Pet 4:17, Rom 10:16 (Notice how Paul equates belief with obedience). He does not believe for you (John 3:16). He does not repent of your sins for you (Acts 3:19). These are all prerequisites and conditions that each person must meet in order to receive salvation.
Yes, Christ did everything to earn salvation for us, but He does not force salvation on anyone. As Heb 5:9 says, Jesus is the author of salvation to those who obey Him.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Christ fulfilled all conditions and secured the bestowal of an eternal inheritance Heb 9:15
And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
All this verse says is what I agreed to in the first line of the previous comment. By His death He paid for the redemption of those who qualify to receive salvation. Those who qualify are those who obey Him. Without obedience there is no salvation. Remember, any doctrine you come up with must satisfy ALL of Scripture, not just the verses you like, and there are many passages that limit salvation to those who obey Christ.
Clifford
Active member
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
Ephesians 1:13–14
The term sealed is used various ways in the New Testament. In Matthew 27:66 we read that Jesus’ tomb was sealed by the Romans. In Revelation we are told that Satan will be sealed in the abyss for one thousand years. There are several references to books that were sealed Revelation 6 We read that during the Tribulation God will place a seal on 144,000 people from the tribe of Israel. Revelation 7
In every case the term sealed carried with it the ideas of protection and security. To seal something, whether it was a document or a tomb, was to close it off from outside influences and interferences.
We have God's seal of approval. As a believer, you have been sealed. We know this to be true because in his second letter to the Corinthians Paul does not mince words in any way in this statement:
Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.
2 Corinthians 1:21–22
Ephesians 1:13–14
The term sealed is used various ways in the New Testament. In Matthew 27:66 we read that Jesus’ tomb was sealed by the Romans. In Revelation we are told that Satan will be sealed in the abyss for one thousand years. There are several references to books that were sealed Revelation 6 We read that during the Tribulation God will place a seal on 144,000 people from the tribe of Israel. Revelation 7
In every case the term sealed carried with it the ideas of protection and security. To seal something, whether it was a document or a tomb, was to close it off from outside influences and interferences.
We have God's seal of approval. As a believer, you have been sealed. We know this to be true because in his second letter to the Corinthians Paul does not mince words in any way in this statement:
Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.
2 Corinthians 1:21–22
makesends
Well-known member
Maybe WE can't, but the fact is that even the concepts supplied by the terms, "past", and "future", and, for that matter, "right now" are for OUR brains to function. They do not of themselves mean anything, unless, at best, to assign sequence of causality. But they are useful for us. The problem comes when we assume substance to our concepts and terms.
And I'm not saying God is incapable of seeing it the way we do. In fact, he even uses our way of thinking/talking to write Scripture's terminology, which is truth, and not to be disputed. But there is more to Scripture's terminology than our brains assume. The first, and most obvious, (to me, anyway), being that we see the terms backwards; for example, we think of God being like our fathers, in some way, but it is the other way around: God is the real Father, and our fathers are poor pictures of that. God says he knows the end from the beginning, but the anthropomorphism wants that to mean that from the beginning he had the ability to see the end, but we have more Scripture to bring to bear, bringing us to the conclusion that he CAUSED the end when he began all things. And THAT whole discussion, including any corrections to our thinking, is still done from our point of view.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Christ fulfilled all the conditions to bestow the inheritance for the heirs. Obedience is part of the inheritance bestowed, its through the Spirit which is given as the earnest of the inheritance Eph 1:13-14
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Obedience is an spiritual blessing by the Spirit 1 Pet 1:2
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
Rockson
Well-known member
I'd say therefore that you reached a wrong conclusion and I commend you for acknowledging that your point of view may be way out of line.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
Sorry, but your focus is completely on what Christ is doing, but you ignore what man must do.
"In Him we also have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things in accordance with the plan of His will, 12 to the end that we who were the first to hope in the Christ would be to the praise of His glory. 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of the promise, 14 who is a first installment of our inheritance, in regard to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory."
This hearkens us back to Rom 10:12-17 which says that faith (our actions and response) comes through hearing the Word of God (the Gospel). And you can clearly see that Paul is equating belief with faith and obedience in verse 16.
As for 1 Pet 1:2, consider also 2 Pet 1:4-11.
"Through these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world on account of lust. 5 Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, 6 and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness, 7 and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love. 8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they do not make you useless nor unproductive in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For the one who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins. 10 Therefore, brothers and sisters, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choice of you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble; 11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you."
Notice here that if we do not continue to practice the things listed here we can lose our salvation, because our calling and election would have then been in vain. It is not that obedience is God's gift to us, rather our obedience is our response to God's greatness and mercy: that we would obey Him because He first gave Himself for us.
Rockson
Well-known member
Very, very, well said...your whole post.
brightfame52
Well-known member
My focus is on the What Christ did for His People, He has fulfilled all that was required to ensure the Heirs of Promise their Eternal Inheritance.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
Absolutely. That is not under debate. As referenced earlier, in the movie "Brewster's Millions" and in the book "The Ultimate Gift", the person who dies did all the work to earn the inheritance he leaves to his heir. But in each case he leaves conditions for the reception of that inheritance by his heir. If the heir accomplishes the conditions, then he receives the inheritance. If he does not, then he receives nothing. This is the same with Christ's heirs. If we obey the Gospel then we receive the inheritance and are part of the elect, the body of Christ, the Church. But if we do not obey the Gospel, then we do not receive the inheritance.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
Thank you.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Well, thats it, Christ fulfilled all the conditions, the Heirs receive the Inheritance, which is the eternal inheritance Heb 9:15
And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Also limited to the called, not merely an outward call either, but the inward effectual call by the Spirit, thats particularly who the Heirs are, so this speaks to election and limited particular redemption Heb 9:15
And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
They which are called is preceded by the definite article emphasis on particular people chosen people, this inheritance is certain and sure to the seed.
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