brightfame52
Well-known member
Those same people Paul was writing to there, had been Chosen in Christ before the foundation, so even in that condition, they were eternally Justified.
Eternal Justification !
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brightfame52
Well-known member
Also since these people here were chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4 this shows evidence their election was unconditional, because we see how God viewed them by nature dead in sin Eph 2:1-3. For more on unconditional election theres a thread on it here:
Nope
They were not in Christ before the foundation of the world
That happens in time
Romans 16:7 (KJV 1900) — 7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.
and they were not justified here
Ephesians 2:11–12 (KJV 1900) — 11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
brightfame52
Well-known member
Yes they were in Christ before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4
Sorry, they did not exist to be in Christ
brightfame52
Well-known member
Yes they were in Christ before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4
Sorry eph 1:4 does not say that
and you ignore verse 13
Ephesians 1:13 (ESV) — 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
as well as
Romans 16:7 (KJV 1900) — 7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.
and
Ephesians 2:11–12 (KJV 1900) — 11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Fitzpatrick
Active member
Even before he made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes. Ephesians 1:4
Paul continues his thought from verse 3. God chose every person who would believe in Him before He created. These words have tremendous implications regarding the wisdom and plan of God. His wisdom and power are so great that He knew the present, even from the beginning. Likewise, He knew the end before the start. God exists outside of time, and created time. He is the only being able to know all things because He created all things.
Paul also notes a few important applications of God choosing us to be His children. Because of God's wisdom, power, and love, our proper response as His children is to live in obedience to Him. We are to be "holy," a word meaning "set apart." We are also to live in a way which is without blame, an important characteristic for all believers, especially church leaders.
The reference to "love" is typically considered to be part of a new sentence, not the end of the previous one. The concept is better connected with the thought which continues in verse 5.
Paul continues his thought from verse 3. God chose every person who would believe in Him before He created. These words have tremendous implications regarding the wisdom and plan of God. His wisdom and power are so great that He knew the present, even from the beginning. Likewise, He knew the end before the start. God exists outside of time, and created time. He is the only being able to know all things because He created all things.
Paul also notes a few important applications of God choosing us to be His children. Because of God's wisdom, power, and love, our proper response as His children is to live in obedience to Him. We are to be "holy," a word meaning "set apart." We are also to live in a way which is without blame, an important characteristic for all believers, especially church leaders.
The reference to "love" is typically considered to be part of a new sentence, not the end of the previous one. The concept is better connected with the thought which continues in verse 5.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Yes they were in Christ before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4
civic
Well-known member
Exactly !
Enemies of God, children of wrath just like the rest of humanity.
So much for the frozen chosen who do not become justified until they personally place their faith in the gospel.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Slain from the foundation of the World ! cont
Christ's Death for the Elect was an Eternal Offering, given through the Eternal Spirit Heb 9:14
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
It the Death or Offering of Christ was from a Human perspective offered in time, but ordained before time for its objects 1 Pet 1:20
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, The Church or the Elect of God 1 Pet 1:2, They would also be the foreknown of God Rom 8:29
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 11:2
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
All those that would believe in God by Him 1 Pet 1:20-21
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
And it's Meritorious Effects, of His Death, are from Everlasting to Everlasting. The Effects of it had Eternal Influences on all that are Justified by it from Pre Cross to Post Cross, and by it they all had been sanctified and perfected forever Heb 10:10,14 ! 3
Christ's Death for the Elect was an Eternal Offering, given through the Eternal Spirit Heb 9:14
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
It the Death or Offering of Christ was from a Human perspective offered in time, but ordained before time for its objects 1 Pet 1:20
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, The Church or the Elect of God 1 Pet 1:2, They would also be the foreknown of God Rom 8:29
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 11:2
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
All those that would believe in God by Him 1 Pet 1:20-21
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
And it's Meritorious Effects, of His Death, are from Everlasting to Everlasting. The Effects of it had Eternal Influences on all that are Justified by it from Pre Cross to Post Cross, and by it they all had been sanctified and perfected forever Heb 10:10,14 ! 3
Not one single thing there about anyone being eternally justified
Still more examples of reading one's theology into scripture
men are not eternally justified
Ephesians 2:11–12 (KJV 1900) — 11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
brightfame52
Well-known member
In the Mind and Purpose of God, Christ has been slain for the sins of the Sheep, they are Justified from the foundation
Did God forget here
Ephesians 2:11–12 (KJV 1900) — 11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
brightfame52
Well-known member
In the Mind and Purpose of God, Christ has been slain for the sins of the Sheep, they are Justified from the foundation Rev 13:8
you failed to address this
Did God forget here
Ephesians 2:11–12 (KJV 1900) — 11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
brightfame52
Well-known member
In the Mind and Purpose of God, Christ has been slain for the sins of the Sheep, they are Justified from the foundation Rev 13:8
Are you still running from the question?
Did God forget here
Ephesians 2:11–12 (KJV 1900) — 11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
brightfame52
Well-known member
In the Mind and Purpose of God, Christ has been slain for the sins of the Sheep, they are Justified from the foundation Rev 13:8,
Those there in Eph 2:11-12 were eternally Justified
sorry that does not look like justification
Ephesians 2:11–12 (KJV 1900) — 11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
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