brightfame52
Active Member
Those there in Eph 2:11-12 were eternally Justified since they were chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4 and accepted in Him 1:6
Eternal Justification !
- Thread starter brightfame52
- Start date
Nothing about justification in the text
Ephesians 2:11–12 (KJV 1900) — 11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
So why do you add to the word of God?
brightfame52
Active Member
Those there in Eph 2:11-12 were eternally Justified since they were chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4 and accepted in Him 1:6
brightfame52
Active Member
Eternal Justification by the Purpose, Decree of God !
2 Tim 1:9
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
It cannot be plainer than this, That according to the Truth of the Everlasting Gospel, all the Elect of God were Saved, Justified, Given Grace in Christ before the World began, according to His OWN Purpose !
What is this Purpose ? First the scripture says according to HIS OWN PURPOSE, Pertaining to Himself, so this purpose takes place first and foremost within God's ownself ! Also the word purpose means here determination and the idea of decree is associated with this set purpose or determination.
Its also the foundation of God's Predestination as in Eph 1:11
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
In Justification, this Eternal Purpose or Decree, this Determination within God Himself, God never appointed the Elect to Wrath, but to obtain Salvation ! So consequently within the Eternal Decree or Purpose of God the Elect were Justified from all sin before the World Began ! They were saved by the Purpose and Grace of God before the World Began, which is the foundation for their Call and Faith and Justification in Time Rom 8:28-30
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
According to this Eternal Purpose God did Justify them before Himself by Non Imputation Rom 8:33
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
This Justification by God of the Elect had nothing to do with their faith in time, but His Purpose Given them before Time ! 2 Tim 1:9
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
2 Tim 1:9
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
It cannot be plainer than this, That according to the Truth of the Everlasting Gospel, all the Elect of God were Saved, Justified, Given Grace in Christ before the World began, according to His OWN Purpose !
What is this Purpose ? First the scripture says according to HIS OWN PURPOSE, Pertaining to Himself, so this purpose takes place first and foremost within God's ownself ! Also the word purpose means here determination and the idea of decree is associated with this set purpose or determination.
Its also the foundation of God's Predestination as in Eph 1:11
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
In Justification, this Eternal Purpose or Decree, this Determination within God Himself, God never appointed the Elect to Wrath, but to obtain Salvation ! So consequently within the Eternal Decree or Purpose of God the Elect were Justified from all sin before the World Began ! They were saved by the Purpose and Grace of God before the World Began, which is the foundation for their Call and Faith and Justification in Time Rom 8:28-30
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
According to this Eternal Purpose God did Justify them before Himself by Non Imputation Rom 8:33
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
This Justification by God of the Elect had nothing to do with their faith in time, but His Purpose Given them before Time ! 2 Tim 1:9
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
brightfame52
Active Member
In teaching the Justification of the Elect before Faith, even before the World Began, it is not a denial of the condemnation and guilt of Adam's sin their natural head, which condemnation the scripture teacheth here Rom 5:18
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
That word condemnation is a very strong word ,it is the greek word katakrima and means:
damnatory sentence, condemnation
Its used twice more here Rom 5:16 and Rom 8:1
We do not deny this condemnation incurred by the Elect in their natural head Adam, however, God because of a previous Covenant Engagement before the World began, with the Surety of the Elect, God, instead of charging the Elect with that their condemnation Rom 5:18, instead had charged it upon Christ ! Yes, that damnatory sentence of Eternal Death was laid charge to Christ's Account due to the previous stipulations of the Everlasting Covenant.
You see, if that condemnation of the elect was not real, then there would have been no reason for Christ to have had their sins imputed to Him, and the Gospel fact is according to Paul 1 Cor 15:3
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
If the damnatory sentence the Elect incurred was not real and factual, then Christ's Death would be null and void, because His Death was the consequence of their damnatory sentence laid to His Charge instead of theirs. In fact the word for in 1 Cor 15:3 is the greek prep hyper and means:
in behalf of, for the sake of
And so Christ died in behalf of our sins, that damnatory sentence we deserved to die for eternally, instead, Christ died in our behalf !
So the Justification of the Elect before Faith, is not because of condemnation was not merited by them, but because the merited condemnation Rom 5:18 was not laid to their charge 2 Cor 5:19; Rom 4:8 !
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
That blessed man is each one Christ died in behalf of ! 4
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
That word condemnation is a very strong word ,it is the greek word katakrima and means:
damnatory sentence, condemnation
Its used twice more here Rom 5:16 and Rom 8:1
We do not deny this condemnation incurred by the Elect in their natural head Adam, however, God because of a previous Covenant Engagement before the World began, with the Surety of the Elect, God, instead of charging the Elect with that their condemnation Rom 5:18, instead had charged it upon Christ ! Yes, that damnatory sentence of Eternal Death was laid charge to Christ's Account due to the previous stipulations of the Everlasting Covenant.
You see, if that condemnation of the elect was not real, then there would have been no reason for Christ to have had their sins imputed to Him, and the Gospel fact is according to Paul 1 Cor 15:3
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
If the damnatory sentence the Elect incurred was not real and factual, then Christ's Death would be null and void, because His Death was the consequence of their damnatory sentence laid to His Charge instead of theirs. In fact the word for in 1 Cor 15:3 is the greek prep hyper and means:
in behalf of, for the sake of
And so Christ died in behalf of our sins, that damnatory sentence we deserved to die for eternally, instead, Christ died in our behalf !
So the Justification of the Elect before Faith, is not because of condemnation was not merited by them, but because the merited condemnation Rom 5:18 was not laid to their charge 2 Cor 5:19; Rom 4:8 !
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
That blessed man is each one Christ died in behalf of ! 4
Rockson
Active Member
So let's see if what you says holds up? If what you said is true that therefore would mean that Paul the Apostle was being rather foolish and being out of line for being concerned that those who had heard his message and received it that it could end up that Christ died in vain. Why would Paul say things like this,
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. Gal 1:8
Comment: Paul stated though WE.....Not just others but even the possibility that he could potentially fall back and preach another gospel they were to be considered accursed. So if he considered it was a locked in guarantee that he was the elect from the beginning of the world then what's all this talk of saying there could be a possibility that WE could end up being accursed?
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. Gal 2:21
Comment: So if what Calvinists said was true there would be NO WAY to frustrate the grace of God. How could God's grace ever be frustrated? That could only be possible if free willed individuals put themselves into a position where Christ died in vain. (or for no reason) Christ dying in vain would not even be possible as a statement to make if the elect were the elect from before the world began and such was going to take place without fail. Gal 3:3 might be another verse you should have a look at too.
brightfame52
Active Member
Im sorry, dont know what you talking about. This is about Justification from eternity. Did you read the entire post and connect the points like i set them forth ?
brightfame52
Active Member
To deny Eternal Justification of the Elect before God is a flat out denial of the Gospel, which Gospel is nothing short of Preaching the Everlasting and New Covenant, and the denial lies in this:
Its a denial of the purpose and agreement and Surety-Ship of Christ before the beginning of the World, which is the whole foundation of Eternal Justification of the Chosen in Christ before God Eph 1:4. It also denies God's Eternal act of setting apart or sanctification of the Elect which Jude alludes to here Jude 1:1
1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
Now for Jude to write this statement in the opening of a letter that is regarding our common Salvation and The Faith delivered unto the Saints vs 3
3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Then it is feasible that they have heard the blessed Truth before i in the Gospel of being in the Eternal Decree of the Father Sanctified or set apart, that would be in their Eternal Election Eph 1:3-4 !
This setting apart of the Father from Election in Christ does ensure, make certain the application of Christ's Righteousness in Time by New Birth, this Eternal Act is the very substance of Eternal Justification, deny this, you become an Enemy of the Gospel !
Its a denial of the purpose and agreement and Surety-Ship of Christ before the beginning of the World, which is the whole foundation of Eternal Justification of the Chosen in Christ before God Eph 1:4. It also denies God's Eternal act of setting apart or sanctification of the Elect which Jude alludes to here Jude 1:1
1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
Now for Jude to write this statement in the opening of a letter that is regarding our common Salvation and The Faith delivered unto the Saints vs 3
3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Then it is feasible that they have heard the blessed Truth before i in the Gospel of being in the Eternal Decree of the Father Sanctified or set apart, that would be in their Eternal Election Eph 1:3-4 !
This setting apart of the Father from Election in Christ does ensure, make certain the application of Christ's Righteousness in Time by New Birth, this Eternal Act is the very substance of Eternal Justification, deny this, you become an Enemy of the Gospel !
Begotten
Active Member
If you believe any of the above you become a expounder of the Man-made 5 Points of tulip and an enemy of the True Gospel. Not only does this stance on Eternal justification and it's attack on the character of God and It crosses the fence of Who God really is — it spits in the face of the True Gospel.
The True Gospel is the good news that God saves sinners. Man is by nature sinful and separated from God with no hope of remedying that situation. But God, by His power, provided the means of all Mankind's redemption in the death, burial and resurrection of the Savior, Jesus Christ for those that willingly Believe in Him. Justification by grace alone through faith alone.
brightfame52
Active Member
@Begotten
Back to you friend
That needs to be clarified, some sinners, His People Matt 1:21 the Seed of Abraham Heb 2:16-17
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
And this according to a Eternal Purpose, which is why they are Justified from the foundation.
Back to you friend
That needs to be clarified, some sinners, His People Matt 1:21 the Seed of Abraham Heb 2:16-17
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
And this according to a Eternal Purpose, which is why they are Justified from the foundation.
justification takes place the moment we get saved . man needs stay out of the plan of salvation present the word let the spirit draw and be there for them if they need help. over the years i have watched man try to perfect the plan of salvation
brightfame52
Active Member
I can tell you from the jump, this is error friend
Begotten
Active Member
I'm sorry that you don't believe the truth and hold to the LIE. I'm afraid you may be a victim of what the Bible teaches about people that believe false Doctrine.
Departfrom me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels. Let it be well weighed that this sentence of everlasting punishment is to be solemnly pronounced when Christ shall come to judge the world.
That's called the judgment.
That's called the judgment.
brightfame52
Active Member
Back to you friend and see ya at the Judgment for sure
Rowan
Active Member
It's actually a good thing. The Bible says so.
“Because He has fixed a day when He will judge the world righteously (justly) by a Man Whom He has destined and appointed for that task, and He has made this credible and given conviction and assurance and evidence to everyone by raising Him from the dead Acts 17:31
For many people the prospect of being subjected to any kind of judgment is unwelcome. Is that how you feel?
IF SO, you can find comfort in the fact that Judgment Day is a loving arrangement that will bring great blessings to the ones that have chosen Christ as their lord and savior.
28 Just as the Son of Man came not to be waited on but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many [the price paid to set them free] Matthew 20:28
16 For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten (unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life. John 3:16
So back at you. Since since you're going to see all of us other believers there. Maybe you can answer these two questions.
Why is Judgment Day necessary? What will actually occur during that “day”?
Begotten
Active Member
One thing is for sure the issues of the judgment day, they will be eternal. They will be either eternal joy and life and glory, or eternal death, eternal darkness, eternal despair and eternal shame.
Like this description.
There is the judgment throne; its blazing glory, its overwhelming splendor, I cannot describe. There is the Christ upon the throne, His face shining with a glory above the glory of the noonday sun, His eyes like flames of fire piercing men through and through. And there you stand before that awful judgment bar, the eyes of Christ upon you like a flame of fire, piercing you through and through, your whole life laid bare and your secret thoughts revealed.
Ahar
Active Member
So we're back to the judgment. Or should I say I'll catch ya at the judgment. Okay why is judgment day necessary? Is it like separating the wheat from the chaff?
He is ready to separate the chaff from the wheat with his winnowing fork. Then he will clean up the threshing area, gathering the wheat into his barn but burning the chaff with never-ending fire.” Matthew 3:12
In Isaiah 33, the righteous people of God survive judgment while the wicked nations are consumed. Speaking of the Assyrians, Isaiah says, “You conceive chaff, you give birth to straw; your breath is a fire that consumes you”
Jesus came the first time to save, but the second time He will come to judge the world with righteousness. The chaff—the wicked, the ungodly, the faithless, the unbelieving, the unfruitful—He will separate from the godly and consign to a horrible fate. Therefore, “be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man” Luke 21:36
Ahar
Active Member
You don't have anything new to add? Try this on for size.
Hyper-Calvinists affirm eternal justification, which downplays the need for individual conversion.
They deny the free moral agency and responsibility for unbelievers to repent and believe, which turns divine providence into fatalism.
They restrict the gospel invitation to the elect, which denies the free offer of the gospel to all people.
Hyper-Calvinists teach that non-Christians must be convinced they are among the elect before they have a “warrant” to believe, which undermines salvation by grace through faith.
Most importantly, hyper-Calvinists deny the universal love of God to all people, arguing that God loves only the elect and hates the non-elect.
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