Complete
Well-known member
Hello @Red Baker,
Please include me, if you should find a thread discussing this, for I would love to join you.
Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Eternal Justification !
- Thread starter brightfame52
- Start date
Please include me, if you should find a thread discussing this, for I would love to join you.
Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
civic
Well-known member
brightfame52
Well-known member
The Fruit of Eternal Justification !
As the fruit of Eternal Justification, there will be subsequent declarations of Justification and or manifestations of Justification. For example, the Resurrection of Jesus Christ as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep, declares that the Sheep are Justified Heb 13:20
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
Rom 4:25
25 Who was delivered for our offenses, and was raised again for our justification.
So The Resurrection declares Eternal Justification because the sins Christ died for, He was given Suretyship of them before the World began,
And Faith declares the sinner Justified as they receive experimental peace and joy and spiritual Knowledge of Justification by Faith Rom 5:1
But these are fruits of Eternal Justification ! 3
As the fruit of Eternal Justification, there will be subsequent declarations of Justification and or manifestations of Justification. For example, the Resurrection of Jesus Christ as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep, declares that the Sheep are Justified Heb 13:20
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
Rom 4:25
25 Who was delivered for our offenses, and was raised again for our justification.
So The Resurrection declares Eternal Justification because the sins Christ died for, He was given Suretyship of them before the World began,
And Faith declares the sinner Justified as they receive experimental peace and joy and spiritual Knowledge of Justification by Faith Rom 5:1
But these are fruits of Eternal Justification ! 3
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
I will discuss it here. You have made the Kingdom of God dependent upon the earthy silliness of a despot king named James. A drunk. A murder. A man most unfaithful to God. A king that claimed all men subject to his own rule instead of every man answering to God individually. Do you know what the Priesthood of the Believer means?
It is interesting how you appeal to the Reformers yet do not use the very Bible they produced. You prefer a "king" that hated the Reformers. I've been around Reformed Baptist my entire life.
I can walk and chew gum at the same time.
Quote the rule. What I've said is relative. You've discussed the meanings of words relative the KJV. You opened the door.
I rejected what I was taught in fundamentalism a very long time ago. I began a journey to discover the truth myself. I abandoned most everything I'd ever been taught relative to God and sought to know God personally through my own studies and experiences with Him. I can sure, I have an opinion on most any theological subject that varies from most any individual you've ever meet. I don't say that to brag. I'm just saying I'm not your usual man that just parrots what I've heard. @civic is probably the closest man I've ever meet were we agree in the nature of God. We've bonded over the years on that subject. I believe that were theology begins. If you do not the doctrines relative the very nature of God, then you're stuck.......
Listen, I don't like making enemies. I don't. I don't value it at all. We might have more in common that either of us know. I feel my purpose in life to cast down imaginations and everything that exhausts itself above the knowledge of God.... bringing everything captive to the obedience of Christ. This is why I deal with specific issues in most any topic. Issues that when accepted contrary to nature of God, lead to mistaken theology.
Either way, I've said enough. I'll leave you alone for now. I will not say anything else about the KJV.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Justification from Eternity !
Where the religionist teachers and followers greatly error, is they fail to understand the origin of ones Justification before God, in the Eternal Mind of God, for it is God that Justifieth Rom 8:33
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
And as it is God's act, it is immutable from Everlasting, founded upon the Covenant Engagements of the Person and Work of the Lord Jesus Christ, hence Justification from Eternity, because its origin is an act of God's Mind, which acts are Eternal and Immutable, not subject to change Mal 3:6
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
There is also a Justification at the Resurrection of Jesus Christ , the Covenant head raised from the dead Rom 4:25, and this being a more clearer revelation of the Immutability of His Eternal act of Justification, and then of course at the time of New birth, there is another revealing of God's Eternal act of Justification, in the conscience of the redeemed one, which this is Justification by Faith ! Rom 5:1; Rom 8:30
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. 3
Where the religionist teachers and followers greatly error, is they fail to understand the origin of ones Justification before God, in the Eternal Mind of God, for it is God that Justifieth Rom 8:33
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
And as it is God's act, it is immutable from Everlasting, founded upon the Covenant Engagements of the Person and Work of the Lord Jesus Christ, hence Justification from Eternity, because its origin is an act of God's Mind, which acts are Eternal and Immutable, not subject to change Mal 3:6
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
There is also a Justification at the Resurrection of Jesus Christ , the Covenant head raised from the dead Rom 4:25, and this being a more clearer revelation of the Immutability of His Eternal act of Justification, and then of course at the time of New birth, there is another revealing of God's Eternal act of Justification, in the conscience of the redeemed one, which this is Justification by Faith ! Rom 5:1; Rom 8:30
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. 3
Complete
Well-known member
'What shall we say then that Abraham our father,
as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
For what saith the scripture?
Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly,
his faith is counted for righteousness.
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man,
unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also?
for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. '
(Rom 4:1-9)
'He (Abraham) staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief;
but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
And being fully persuaded that,
what He had promised, He was able also to perform.
And therefore it was imputed to Him for righteousness.
Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed,
if we believe on Him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
'Who was delivered for our offences,
and was raised again for our justification.'
(Rom.4:20-25)
'Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin;
and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
(For until the law sin was in the world:
but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses,
even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression,
who is the figure of Him that was to come.
But not as the offence, so also is the free gift
For if through the offence of one many be dead,
much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace,
which is by One man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift:
for the judgment was by one to condemnation,
but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one;
much more they which receive abundance of grace
and of the gift of righteousness
shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Therefore as by the offence of one
judgment came upon all men to condemnation;
even so by the righteousness of one
the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.'
(Rom 5:12-18)
Praise God!
as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
For what saith the scripture?
Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly,
his faith is counted for righteousness.
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man,
unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also?
for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. '
(Rom 4:1-9)
'He (Abraham) staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief;
but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
And being fully persuaded that,
what He had promised, He was able also to perform.
And therefore it was imputed to Him for righteousness.
Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed,
if we believe on Him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
'Who was delivered for our offences,
and was raised again for our justification.'
(Rom.4:20-25)
'Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin;
and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
(For until the law sin was in the world:
but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses,
even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression,
who is the figure of Him that was to come.
But not as the offence, so also is the free gift
For if through the offence of one many be dead,
much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace,
which is by One man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift:
for the judgment was by one to condemnation,
but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one;
much more they which receive abundance of grace
and of the gift of righteousness
shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Therefore as by the offence of one
judgment came upon all men to condemnation;
even so by the righteousness of one
the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.'
(Rom 5:12-18)
Praise God!
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civic
Well-known member
Amen
Greetings Chris~the verse you quoted is a wonderful verse of scripture, the key of not allowing any man deceive us is found in these words:
"not after Christ"~Christ alone purchased the redemption of our souls by his obedience and righteousness to the law of God, under which he was born.
Well said and according to the word of God, which is more important than how we may express ourselves. You did both.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Justification from Eternity !
God's Purpose and Will not to punish sin in the Elect is their Justification from all sin, for God's Purpose not to punish sin in His Elect is Revealed in His Purpose of Christ's Death before the World began, Rev 13:8
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain[For the sins of the Elect] from the foundation of the world.
1 Pet 1:20
20 Who verily was foreordained[To Be slain for sin] before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
These scriptures reveal a valuable FACT that God not never at one Time before the foundation of the World purposed to punish the sins of the Elect in them, hence He never imputed them [their sins] to their charge, this non imputation of their sins from before the foundation of the world, was their acquittal and Justification from all sin from the foundation of the World, for we read of the blessedness of non imputation here Rom 4:7-8
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
God's Purpose and Will not to punish sin in the Elect is their Justification from all sin, for God's Purpose not to punish sin in His Elect is Revealed in His Purpose of Christ's Death before the World began, Rev 13:8
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain[For the sins of the Elect] from the foundation of the world.
1 Pet 1:20
20 Who verily was foreordained[To Be slain for sin] before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
These scriptures reveal a valuable FACT that God not never at one Time before the foundation of the World purposed to punish the sins of the Elect in them, hence He never imputed them [their sins] to their charge, this non imputation of their sins from before the foundation of the world, was their acquittal and Justification from all sin from the foundation of the World, for we read of the blessedness of non imputation here Rom 4:7-8
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Christ is said to be “the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world;” {Rev.13:8;} Christ being appointed to die, “who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you.” {IPet.1:20} God looked upon Him as slain.“According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord.” {Eph.3:11}“Out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.” {Mic.5:2}
brightfame52
Well-known member
Justification in Rom 8:29-30
What about Justified in Rom 8:29-30 ?
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
In this sequence given by inspiration, of the Eternal Purpose of God in Election to Glorification coming to fruition, Paul places call [in time] before Justification, which means as God's Eternal Purpose unfolds in time to each vessel of mercy or the [them], we see not why to confess that in a point of time, the elect individual called by the Gospel is Justified by Faith given to them in the New Birth, for this fulfills the Gospel promise to Abraham that God made here Gal 3:8
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
This is part of the Eternal Decree, that God purposed. That God would Justify the heathen through Faith is something God decreed to do, and also these would be Abraham's Seed !
So God had decreed to give the Elect evidence [Faith] of their Eternal Justification to their own consciousness in time, by sending the Holy Spirit to set them apart to Faith or the belief of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13, in this, Christ is revealed to them and they are given a Knowledge [spiritual] of Salvation or Justification by the remission of their sins Lk 1:77 which took place before the world began by non imputation, because they [their sins] were imputed to their Covenant Head and Surety before the World Began ! But yes, there is in time, when the Elect are Called, then Justified by Faith in their consciousness as God Promised to do here Gal 3:8 ! 3
What about Justified in Rom 8:29-30 ?
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
In this sequence given by inspiration, of the Eternal Purpose of God in Election to Glorification coming to fruition, Paul places call [in time] before Justification, which means as God's Eternal Purpose unfolds in time to each vessel of mercy or the [them], we see not why to confess that in a point of time, the elect individual called by the Gospel is Justified by Faith given to them in the New Birth, for this fulfills the Gospel promise to Abraham that God made here Gal 3:8
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
This is part of the Eternal Decree, that God purposed. That God would Justify the heathen through Faith is something God decreed to do, and also these would be Abraham's Seed !
So God had decreed to give the Elect evidence [Faith] of their Eternal Justification to their own consciousness in time, by sending the Holy Spirit to set them apart to Faith or the belief of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13, in this, Christ is revealed to them and they are given a Knowledge [spiritual] of Salvation or Justification by the remission of their sins Lk 1:77 which took place before the world began by non imputation, because they [their sins] were imputed to their Covenant Head and Surety before the World Began ! But yes, there is in time, when the Elect are Called, then Justified by Faith in their consciousness as God Promised to do here Gal 3:8 ! 3
brightfame52
Well-known member
Eternal Justification !
The Justification of the Elect, an immanent act of God, was always abiding in Him by Covenant Engagement, as something hid in Himself or hid in God Eph 3:9
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Col 3:3
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
The Eternal Justification of all of God's Elect has always been a hidden Truth, hidden with Christ in God. Its that Justification of life Paul speaks of in Rom 5:18
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
There comes a time when these hidden Mysteries in God, that are for us, that the Spirit of God makes them known, that we may know experientially those things Freely given us of God as stated 1 Cor 2:12
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
Thats important because one of the things we have freely of God, is Justification in Christ by His Grace and Redemptive Work Rom 3:24
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Which Work originated in the Eternal Engagements of the Everlasting Covenant, when Christ became the Surety by the imputation of our sins unto His Suretyship, so that in a time appointed by God, He would be made of a woman, made under the Law, and be sacrificed for those sins already imputed !
The Justification of the Elect, an immanent act of God, was always abiding in Him by Covenant Engagement, as something hid in Himself or hid in God Eph 3:9
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Col 3:3
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
The Eternal Justification of all of God's Elect has always been a hidden Truth, hidden with Christ in God. Its that Justification of life Paul speaks of in Rom 5:18
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
There comes a time when these hidden Mysteries in God, that are for us, that the Spirit of God makes them known, that we may know experientially those things Freely given us of God as stated 1 Cor 2:12
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
Thats important because one of the things we have freely of God, is Justification in Christ by His Grace and Redemptive Work Rom 3:24
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Which Work originated in the Eternal Engagements of the Everlasting Covenant, when Christ became the Surety by the imputation of our sins unto His Suretyship, so that in a time appointed by God, He would be made of a woman, made under the Law, and be sacrificed for those sins already imputed !
brightfame52
Well-known member
More on Justification from Eternity !
There is a Justification in the mind of the believer which doth occur in time, and is what the scripture calls Justified by Faith Rom 5:1 , but there is another Justification which is before time and even from eternity Ps 103:17, and that is the Elects Justification in the Mind of God ! Eternal Justification rests upon what is an Eternal Act in God's Mind and not what is a revealed fact of the Mind of God in the mind of the Justified ones ! The Elect are Justified by God from Eternity by the Eternal act of the Decree of God, and by the Eternal Arrangement of the Everlasting Covenant between the Father and the Son and The Spirit Witnessed, these are God's Acts; That is His Decree's are His Acts of Old Ps 93:2
Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting.
His entering Covenant with His Son is His acts; and all acts of His are foundational in His Being as the Eternal God, where time as we know it, past , present and future, are all One in His Mind ! 3
There is a Justification in the mind of the believer which doth occur in time, and is what the scripture calls Justified by Faith Rom 5:1 , but there is another Justification which is before time and even from eternity Ps 103:17, and that is the Elects Justification in the Mind of God ! Eternal Justification rests upon what is an Eternal Act in God's Mind and not what is a revealed fact of the Mind of God in the mind of the Justified ones ! The Elect are Justified by God from Eternity by the Eternal act of the Decree of God, and by the Eternal Arrangement of the Everlasting Covenant between the Father and the Son and The Spirit Witnessed, these are God's Acts; That is His Decree's are His Acts of Old Ps 93:2
Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting.
His entering Covenant with His Son is His acts; and all acts of His are foundational in His Being as the Eternal God, where time as we know it, past , present and future, are all One in His Mind ! 3
brightfame52
Well-known member
Slain from the foundation of the World !
Rev 13:8
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Many false teachers try their best to destroy the Truth of this verse that John was inspired to write, and that is that Christ the Lamb was actually slain from the foundation of the World !
Yes, I said actually which means actual or existing fact !
He was actually slain from the foundation of the World by God's Decree and Purpose, which makes it an Actual Existing Fact in the Mind of God. John here is revealing to us the Mind of God on this matter !
And with that, this verse speaks to the Truthfulness of the Eternal Justification of all God's Elect in His Mind, Purpose and Decree from the foundation of the World, Yes for all them that Christ did come and die for in time, they were already Justified by the Purpose of God before Time Began. This is so much so, that in the Purpose, Decree, and Mind of God they were already Saved 2 Tim 1:9
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Or it can read "Who hath saved or Justified us according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began"
Paul states the same here Titus 3:7
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
That is, Freely Justified by that Grace which was Given Us in Christ Jesus before the World Began !
This is a Gospel Truth, for Paul Just stated in Vs 8 2 Tim 1:8-10
8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
Which Gospel Truth He Proclaims in Vs 9
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
The Gospel is that Testimony of that Eternal Grace Given in Christ, which we are Justified by, before the World began.
Paul said the same also here Acts 20:24
24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.
This Testimony of the Gospel of the Grace of God refers to 2 Tim 1:8-9 which enlightens of the Church's Eternal Justification by the Grace of God , premised on the Covenant Engagement of Christ being Slain for their Sins !
And to omit this Truth of the Gospel of the Grace of God is to consequently Preach No Gospel. Yes, Eternal Justification of the Church is a GOSPEL TRUTH, and I just proved it with scripture ! 3
Rev 13:8
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Many false teachers try their best to destroy the Truth of this verse that John was inspired to write, and that is that Christ the Lamb was actually slain from the foundation of the World !
Yes, I said actually which means actual or existing fact !
He was actually slain from the foundation of the World by God's Decree and Purpose, which makes it an Actual Existing Fact in the Mind of God. John here is revealing to us the Mind of God on this matter !
And with that, this verse speaks to the Truthfulness of the Eternal Justification of all God's Elect in His Mind, Purpose and Decree from the foundation of the World, Yes for all them that Christ did come and die for in time, they were already Justified by the Purpose of God before Time Began. This is so much so, that in the Purpose, Decree, and Mind of God they were already Saved 2 Tim 1:9
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Or it can read "Who hath saved or Justified us according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began"
Paul states the same here Titus 3:7
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
That is, Freely Justified by that Grace which was Given Us in Christ Jesus before the World Began !
This is a Gospel Truth, for Paul Just stated in Vs 8 2 Tim 1:8-10
8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
Which Gospel Truth He Proclaims in Vs 9
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
The Gospel is that Testimony of that Eternal Grace Given in Christ, which we are Justified by, before the World began.
Paul said the same also here Acts 20:24
24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.
This Testimony of the Gospel of the Grace of God refers to 2 Tim 1:8-9 which enlightens of the Church's Eternal Justification by the Grace of God , premised on the Covenant Engagement of Christ being Slain for their Sins !
And to omit this Truth of the Gospel of the Grace of God is to consequently Preach No Gospel. Yes, Eternal Justification of the Church is a GOSPEL TRUTH, and I just proved it with scripture ! 3
Ephesians 2:11–12 (KJV 1900) — 11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
civic
Well-known member
And we also read they/ we were children of wrath just like them.
Notice that never gets quoted and is overlooked all of the time in the context. So much for a special kind of sinner eh ?
Rockson
Well-known member
Oh. Well there goes down the tube what the Calvinists say. I think they've always claimed they had a guaranteed hope for they always have been the elect.
Most Calvinists do not hold to eternal justification but perhaps it may be a means to remove faith as a necessary requirement for some
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