Duh you assume Spiritual death is like Physical death, But you do so unthinkingly. Can a dead man reject God, sin, suppress the truth in unrighteousness
Doctrine of Unconditional Election
- Thread starter brightfame52
- Start date
I agree with the scriptures and all that here is stated.
Salvation from sin and condemnation is all a free gift given by God's grace apart from all works of the law ~ law meaning any commandment whereby man has an active part in in order to secure eternal life.
The key to this is found in Paul's words" For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
“Through Jesus Christ” ~ Eternal life comes to the people of God as a free gift, yet it is through Jesus Christ. By His mediation alone reconciliation between God and man is effected, peace established, communion restored, and every blessing conferred. The smallest as well as the greatest gift is bestowed through Him; and they are not the less free gifts from God, because Christ our Lord has paid the price of redemption by himself. He Himself was given for this end by the Father, and He and the Father are one. He, then, who pays the ransom is one and the same who justifies, so that the freeness of the gift is not in the smallest degree diminished.
This gift of eternal life is bestowed through Jesus Christ, and by Him it is dispensed, — ’Glorify Thy Son, that Thy Son may also glorify Thee: as Thou hast given Him power over all flesh, to give eternal life to as many as Thou hast given Him.’ ‘My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me, and I give unto them eternal life.’ Our Lord.
If the gift of eternal life is through Christ, (and it is) then there are no works that man can do to add to what Jesus did to secure eternal life for those for whom he was their surety.
Acts 16:30–31 (NASB 2020) — 30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Acts 2:37–38 (NASB 2020) — 37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what are we to do?” 38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
John 6:28–29 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”
John 3:7 (NASB 2020) — 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’
John 3:9 (NASB 2020) — 9 Nicodemus responded and said to Him, “How can these things be?”
John 3:10–15 (NASB 2020) — 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “You are the teacher of Israel, and yet you do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you people do not accept our testimony. 12 If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven, except He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 14 And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 so that everyone who believes will have eternal life in Him.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Mans portion is determined by the will of God, thus Paul says, " The purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him that calleth," ( Romans 9:11 ). Election is not based on any thing foreseen in the creature, but of the will of the God exclusively, and for His pleasure. Rev 4:11
11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
Unconditional Election of some was for His Pleasure !
brightfame52
Well-known member
Faith is the Gift of God, it says so right here Eph 2:8
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
The word that τοῦτο neuter encompasses the whole phrase, Salvation is of Grace, Faith is of Grace, Gift is of Grace, hence no part of the saving process is of ourselves, thats the whole point.
Yet you and others totally disregard the text and adamantly say Faith is of ourselves.
Now if faith in the salvific process was of ourselves, then quite frankly that is a reason to boast !
brightfame52
Well-known member
That was directed to Jesus Sheep[elect] who have been regenerated, He had stated about them earlier why He came for them Jn 10:7-10
7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they[Sheep] might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
Has nothing to do with the non elect , only Christs Sheep, and when they are brought to believe, they do begin to experience the life they already have.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Jn 20:31 is written to the Sheep and about the Sheep, Thats clear from Jn 10:10-11,27-28
10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they[The Sheep] might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Now why would the Ye in Jn 20:31 change from being anyone but the Sheep ?
31 But these are written, that ye[The Sheep] might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye[The Sheep] might have life through his name.
Absurd
You add to scripture that which is not there and reverse what it states
One must believe before having life, but you impart life before belief
John 20:31 (NASB 2020) — 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that by believing you may have life in His name.
Absurd
You add to scripture that which is not there and reverse what it states
One must believe before having life, but you impart life before belief
John 20:31 (NASB 2020) — 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that by believing you may have life in His name.
Let's see what the Greek says so that we can see the truth.
31 ταυτα δε γεγραπται ινα πιστευσητε οτι ο ιησους εστιν ο χριστος ο υιος του θεου και ινα πιστευοντες ζωην εχητε εν τω ονοματι αυτου
The highlighted portion translates directly as "and that believing, life you have in the name of him".
Your attempt to alter the word of God by inserting "the knowledge of" has just been exposed as purely fraudulent. Your snake oil sales attempt might work around your circles but not here. Sorry.
Rockson
Well-known member
Here's just another nugget too which shows the error of your Calvinistic thinking. We read in John 10:9:
9I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
Notice it says if any man? That speaks as an invitation to any man similar to the parable of the master who created a great banquet and invited ALL to come. Some chose not to and some did. That spoke of everyone's free will which your doctrine denies.
Yes and to readers notice how he doesn't read the full passage but just a snippet? Going to verse 37,38 we can see where Jesus made clear that those who were not his sheep by believing his word (that is) right off could STILL become his sheep the following way.
If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
If they would do that which he clearly wanted them to do for he told them to do it, making the works convince them would in turn convince them of his words! So all he had said in verses prior as his sheep were ones who took him at his word for no one had spoke like him before. One can see this reflected in verses like John 7:46 So if believing the works that you may know and believe doesn't mean all others couldn't become his sheep as well then it would be absolutely meaningless to say this to them not to mention being disengeious.
My advice therefore is to read the WHOLE PASSAGE.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Jn 20:31 is written to the Sheep and about the Sheep, Thats clear from Jn 10:10-11,27-28
10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they[The Sheep] might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Now why would the Ye in Jn 20:31 change from being anyone but the Sheep ?
31 But these are written, that ye[The Sheep] might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye[The Sheep] might have life through his name.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Jn 20:31 is written to the Sheep and about the Sheep, Thats clear from Jn 10:10-11,27-28
Absurd
You add to scripture that which is not there and reverse what it states
One must believe before having life, but you impart life before belief
John 20:31 (NASB 2020) — 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that by believing you may have life in His name.
Rockson
Well-known member
Good morning.
Sorry but I think rather you're loving your religious traditions which stands contrary to the word of God.
What you're really saying is the preaching of the gospel was never intended to serve as a exhortation to cause one to move with an action to believe in order for salvation in their life to manifest. You have them saved BEFORE believing! You've got the cart before the horse which is another gospel twisting something so absolutely crucial the sinner needs to know and respond to and you put them in limbo. You're wanting to assert the reason the gospel was being preached at all was just to tell people saved what happened to them. I'm not meaning to offend you but how ludircious, preposterous and out of line can you get?
Sorry but I'm thinking the Apostle Paul would reprove you strongly asking you, "So you think God had me going from city to city risking my life, getting beat up, whipped and an thousand on one other things to merely tell a people what happened to them, don't worry you're saved and you don't have to believe anything? And you think I'd be beseeching, imploring and pleading with people to be reconciled to God like in 2 Cor 5:20 when all the while they were and don't worry or be concerned about something I'm telling you to do!" ??????????
As I said. You're wanting to assert there is no need to believe. You should consider renouncing and departing from that way of thinking immediately. Trusting and hoping you will.
What have you done with the fact belief must precede having life in his name?
civic
Well-known member
yes calvinism removes faith which Jesus , the Prophets and Apostles all required to be saved.
civic
Well-known member
tore it out of the Bible or etched it out, blacked it out with a sharpie.
LOLtore it out of the Bible or etched it out, blacked it out with a sharpie.
And All those what must we do's scattered throughout scripture
