Doctrine of Unconditional Election

[TomL]

No, it does not say faith is freely given in John 20:31, and neither did I. Also, it doesn't say that faith precedes spiritual life in John 20:31, you are assuming that, in spite of so many "others scriptures" that teach contrary to that teaching.

That's why when we read the scriptures we must practice Nehemiah 8:8 with all scriptures!

When I read John 20:31 that I know the sense that I must render the words..."But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name~to mean you might have the knowledge of eternal life~because only men who have the power of God given faith, can come the the knowledge of the truth, such truths as Jesus securing the free gift of eternal life for each one given to him of God.

You divert from the fact faith precedes regeneration

Regeneration by definition is the impartation of life



The following verses show faith precedes life

John 5:24 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

John 5:40 (KJV)
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Acts 11:18 (KJV)
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

John 6:57 (KJV)
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

Regeneration makes one a child of God. Born of God -

One is made a child of God through faith

John 1:12 (KJV)
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Galatians 3:26 (KJV)
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

John 12:36 (KJV)
36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.

Regeneration is a spiritual resurrection.



We are raised spiritually through faith

Colossians 2:12 (KJV)
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

One is born again(regenerated) through faith in gospel

James 1:18 (KJV)
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.


Regeneration is the mechanism of salvation

Titus 3:5 (KJV)
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Ephesians 2:5 (KJV)
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

it is through faith we are saved

EPH 2:8 (KJV)
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

.

Regeneration is preceded by remission of sin

Colossians 2:13 (KJV)
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

which requires both faith and repentance

Acts 10:43 (KJV)
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Luke 24:47 (KJV)
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Acts 5:31 (KJV)
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

 

[TomL]

Mans portion is determined by the will of God, thus Paul says, " The purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him that calleth," ( Romans 9:11 ). Election is not based on any thing foreseen in the creature, but of the will of the God exclusively, and for His pleasure. Rev 4:11

11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Unconditional Election of some was for His Pleasure !

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berean-apologetics.community.forum

 

[Doug Brents]

Faith is the Gift of God, it says so right here Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

The word that τοῦτο neuter encompasses the whole phrase, Salvation is of Grace, Faith is of Grace, Gift is of Grace, hence no part of the saving process is of ourselves, thats the whole point.

Yet you and others totally disregard the text and adamantly say Faith is of ourselves.

Now if faith in the salvific process was of ourselves, then quite frankly that is a reason to boast !

Here you go again, posting the EXACT SAME post in response to my rebuttal of that post. Repeating a lie over and over does not make it truth.

 

[brightfame52]

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Mans portion is determined by the will of God, thus Paul says, " The purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him that calleth," ( Romans 9:11 ). Election is not based on any thing foreseen in the creature, but of the will of the God exclusively, and for His pleasure. Rev 4:11

11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Unconditional Election of some was for His Pleasure !

 

[brightfame52]

Here you go again, posting the EXACT SAME post in response to my rebuttal of that post. Repeating a lie over and over does not make it truth.

Faith is the Gift of God, it says so right here Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

The word that τοῦτο neuter encompasses the whole phrase, Salvation is of Grace, Faith is of Grace, Gift is of Grace, hence no part of the saving process is of ourselves, thats the whole point.

Yet you and others totally disregard the text and adamantly say Faith is of ourselves.

Now if faith in the salvific process was of ourselves, then quite frankly that is a reason to boast !

 

[TomL]

Mans portion is determined by the will of God, thus Paul says, " The purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him that calleth," ( Romans 9:11 ). Election is not based on any thing foreseen in the creature, but of the will of the God exclusively, and for His pleasure. Rev 4:11

11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Unconditional Election of some was for His Pleasure !

Still not unconditional election to salvation

You assume that

https://berean-apologetics.communit...ine-of-unconditional-election.1384/post-78670

 

[TomL]

Faith is the Gift of God, it says so right here Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

The word that τοῦτο neuter encompasses the whole phrase, Salvation is of Grace, Faith is of Grace, Gift is of Grace, hence no part of the saving process is of ourselves, thats the whole point.

Yet you and others totally disregard the text and adamantly say Faith is of ourselves.

Now if faith in the salvific process was of ourselves, then quite frankly that is a reason to boast !

Sorry no

The gift is singular and is salvation

Romans 6:23 (ESV) — 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Faith remains your responsibility

Acts 16:30–31 (ESV) — 30 Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Acts 2:37–38 (ESV) — 37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

John 6:28–35 (ESV) — 28 Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” 30 So they said to him, “Then what sign do you do, that we may see and believe you? What work do you perform? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’ ” 32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” 34 They said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.” 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.

 

[Doug Brents]

Faith is the Gift of God, it says so right here Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

The word that τοῦτο neuter encompasses the whole phrase, Salvation is of Grace, Faith is of Grace, Gift is of Grace, hence no part of the saving process is of ourselves, thats the whole point.

Yet you and others totally disregard the text and adamantly say Faith is of ourselves.

Now if faith in the salvific process was of ourselves, then quite frankly that is a reason to boast !

There is no point in talking to a parrot who can only repeat the same thing over and over. It doesn't matter how you highlight or color it, a lie is still a lie, and repeating it over and over does not change it to truth.

 

[brightfame52]

Still not unconditional election to salvation

You assume that

https://berean-apologetics.communit...ine-of-unconditional-election.1384/post-78670

Mans portion is determined by the will of God, thus Paul says, " The purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him that calleth," ( Romans 9:11 ). Election is not based on any thing foreseen in the creature, but of the will of the God exclusively, and for His pleasure. Rev 4:11

11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Unconditional Election of some was for His Pleasure !

 

[brightfame52]

Sorry no

The gift is singular and is salvation

Romans 6:23 (ESV) — 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Faith remains your responsibility

Acts 16:30–31 (ESV) — 30 Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Acts 2:37–38 (ESV) — 37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

John 6:28–35 (ESV) — 28 Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” 30 So they said to him, “Then what sign do you do, that we may see and believe you? What work do you perform? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’ ” 32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” 34 They said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.” 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.

Faith is the Gift of God, it says so right here Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

The word that τοῦτο neuter encompasses the whole phrase, Salvation is of Grace, Faith is of Grace, Gift is of Grace, hence no part of the saving process is of ourselves, thats the whole point.

Yet you and others totally disregard the text and adamantly say Faith is of ourselves.

Now if faith in the salvific process was of ourselves, then quite frankly that is a reason to boast !

 

[brightfame52]

There is no point in talking to a parrot who can only repeat the same thing over and over. It doesn't matter how you highlight or color it, a lie is still a lie, and repeating it over and over does not change it to truth.

Faith is the Gift of God, it says so right here Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

The word that τοῦτο neuter encompasses the whole phrase, Salvation is of Grace, Faith is of Grace, Gift is of Grace, hence no part of the saving process is of ourselves, thats the whole point.

Yet you and others totally disregard the text and adamantly say Faith is of ourselves.

Now if faith in the salvific process was of ourselves, then quite frankly that is a reason to boast !

 

[TomL]

Faith is the Gift of God, it says so right here Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

The word that τοῦτο neuter encompasses the whole phrase, Salvation is of Grace, Faith is of Grace, Gift is of Grace, hence no part of the saving process is of ourselves, thats the whole point.

Yet you and others totally disregard the text and adamantly say Faith is of ourselves.

Now if faith in the salvific process was of ourselves, then quite frankly that is a reason to boast !

Nope salvation is the gift

The gift is singular and is salvation

Romans 6:23 (ESV) — 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Faith remains your responsibility

Acts 16:30–31 (ESV) — 30 Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Acts 2:37–38 (ESV) — 37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

John 6:28–35 (ESV) — 28 Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” 30 So they said to him, “Then what sign do you do, that we may see and believe you? What work do you perform? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’ ” 32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” 34 They said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.” 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.

 

[TomL]

Mans portion is determined by the will of God, thus Paul says, " The purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him that calleth," ( Romans 9:11 ). Election is not based on any thing foreseen in the creature, but of the will of the God exclusively, and for His pleasure. Rev 4:11

11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Unconditional Election of some was for His Pleasure !

Still not unconditional election to salvation

You assume that

https://berean-apologetics.communit...ine-of-unconditional-election.1384/post-78670

 

[brightfame52]

Nope salvation is the gift

The gift is singular and is salvation

Romans 6:23 (ESV) — 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Faith remains your responsibility

Acts 16:30–31 (ESV) — 30 Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Acts 2:37–38 (ESV) — 37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

John 6:28–35 (ESV) — 28 Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” 30 So they said to him, “Then what sign do you do, that we may see and believe you? What work do you perform? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’ ” 32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” 34 They said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.” 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.

Faith is the Gift of God, it says so right here Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

The word that τοῦτο neuter encompasses the whole phrase, Salvation is of Grace, Faith is of Grace, Gift is of Grace, hence no part of the saving process is of ourselves, thats the whole point.

Yet you and others totally disregard the text and adamantly say Faith is of ourselves.

Now if faith in the salvific process was of ourselves, then quite frankly that is a reason to boast !

 

[brightfame52]

Still not unconditional election to salvation

You assume that

https://berean-apologetics.communit...ine-of-unconditional-election.1384/post-78670

Mans portion is determined by the will of God, thus Paul says, " The purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him that calleth," ( Romans 9:11 ). Election is not based on any thing foreseen in the creature, but of the will of the God exclusively, and for His pleasure. Rev 4:11

11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Unconditional Election of some was for His Pleasure !

 

[TomL]

Mans portion is determined by the will of God, thus Paul says, " The purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him that calleth," ( Romans 9:11 ). Election is not based on any thing foreseen in the creature, but of the will of the God exclusively, and for His pleasure. Rev 4:11

11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Unconditional Election of some was for His Pleasure !

Do you have anything beside your assumptions


https://berean-apologetics.communit...ine-of-unconditional-election.1384/post-78670

 

[TomL]

Faith is the Gift of God, it says so right here Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

The word that τοῦτο neuter encompasses the whole phrase, Salvation is of Grace, Faith is of Grace, Gift is of Grace, hence no part of the saving process is of ourselves, thats the whole point.

Yet you and others totally disregard the text and adamantly say Faith is of ourselves.

Now if faith in the salvific process was of ourselves, then quite frankly that is a reason to boast !

Nope the gift is singular and eternal life - salvation

Nope salvation is the gift

The gift is singular and is salvation

Romans 6:23 (ESV) — 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Faith remains your responsibility

Acts 16:30–31 (ESV) — 30 Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Acts 2:37–38 (ESV) — 37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

John 6:28–35 (ESV) — 28 Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” 30 So they said to him, “Then what sign do you do, that we may see and believe you? What work do you perform? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’ ” 32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” 34 They said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.” 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.

 

[Rockson]

@Rockson




Thats directed to Jesus Sheep[elect] who have been regenerated, He had stated about them earlier why He came for them Jn 10:7-10

7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they[Sheep] might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Has nothing to do with the non elect , only Christs Sheep, and when they are brought to believe, they do begin to experience the life they already have.

For other readers at least let's go through this.

25“I already told you,” Jesus replied, “but you did not believe.
(That doesn't mean they couldn't believe or God didn't want them to believe)

The works I do in My Father’s name testify on My behalf.
(So who were they supposed to testify too? Every single human being n the planet not just the lucky ones or the especially blessed)

26But because you are not My sheep, you refuse to believe.
(Because some had chosen not to receive the Lordship of Christ they weren't his sheep. Again doesn't mean they couldn't have) (Now we go down to verse 37)


37If I am not doing the works of My Father, then do not believe Me. 38But if I am doing them, even though you do not believe Me, believe the works themselves, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I am in the Father.” (That means they could still be his sheep and he wanted them to. He was saying if just my words you having trouble with....fine......but you should let the miracles confirm to you what my words are saying and such is what he wanted them to do. So Calvinists claim he didn't want them to believe. Jesus said he did)

 

[TomL]

@Rockson




Thats directed to Jesus Sheep[elect] who have been regenerated, He had stated about them earlier why He came for them Jn 10:7-10

7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they[Sheep] might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Has nothing to do with the non elect , only Christs Sheep, and when they are brought to believe, they do begin to experience the life they already have.

Absurd

You add to scripture that which is not there and reverse what it states

One must believe before having life, but you impart life before belief

John 20:31 (NASB 2020) — 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that by believing you may have life in His name.

 

[Red Baker]

One must believe before having life, but you impart life before belief

Talking about being absurd~why do you not take a trip to your nearest mortuary and go to the first casket you see where there is a dead body, and ask the person does he/she feel comfortable in their new house where they will be living for a while, at least until Jesus comes again when they shall receive a new bodies if born again~or if the gentleman's tie is a little crooked, ask him to straighten it up for his friends are coming to visit him. Test your understanding with reality, and see just how absurd your thinking is.

Man spiritual is just as dead as a man naturally is, and it takes the same power to raise both per Paul.

Ephesians 1:19,20~"And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,"

You deny the mighty power of God in raising elect sinners so that they can believe.

Your understanding is against common sense, but, then again, common sense is not that common anymore!