Doctrine of Unconditional Election

[brightfame52]

You can lead a horse to water but cannot make it drink. You have been led to the truth start drinking it

Yeah right

 

[TomL]

Just an aside to wonder out loud how the twins could know of their birthrights in the society they would be born into so that they were fighting about it while in the womb?

Interresting question but is that what they were doing?

 

[brightfame52]

Sorry that concerns the birth rite not salvation

and verse 13 refers to the nation of Israel and Edom

Malachi 1:2–5 (ESV) — 2 “I have loved you,” says the LORD. But you say, “How have you loved us?” “Is not Esau Jacob’s brother?” declares the LORD. “Yet I have loved Jacob 3 but Esau I have hated. I have laid waste his hill country and left his heritage to jackals of the desert.” 4 If Edom says, “We are shattered but we will rebuild the ruins,” the LORD of hosts says, “They may build, but I will tear down, and they will be called ‘the wicked country,’ and ‘the people with whom the LORD is angry forever.’ ” 5 Your own eyes shall see this, and you shall say, “Great is the LORD beyond the border of Israel!”


God's loves for Jacob manifested itself in his choice of Israel over Edom

Rom 9 is all about Salvation

 

[TomL]

The desire in our hearts that tempts us to do evil is NOT FROM GOD but is from our own addiction to sin which we got by rebelling against either one of HIS commands or against HIM personally as a liar by our free (not enslaved to sin) will.

WE choose to sin - GOD chooses how we express that impulse to express the evil that we have become by our previous rebellion.

Yes we do.

We cannot lay our sin off on God.

 

[TedT]

Yes we do.

We cannot lay our sin off on God.

Yet most of Christendro does exactly that by insisting we get our sinfulness from GOD via Adam....sigh.

 

[TomL]

Rom 9 is all about Salvation

It's more than that

and salvation is by faith not national origin or law keeping efforts or unconditional election for that matter

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

 

[brightfame52]

It's more than that

and salvation is by faith not national origin or law keeping efforts

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Actually its not more than that, the entire book is grounded in the Gospel of Christ and Salvation Rom 1:15-17

15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Romans 9 falls in suit , he even starts it Rom 9:1-3

say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,

2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.

3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

 

[civic]

Rom 9 is all about Salvation

Can you point me to the word “ saved or salvation “ in Roman’s 9. ??????????

Now that was easily refuted

Hope this helps !!!

 

[brightfame52]

Can you point me to the word “ saved or salvation “ in Roman’s 9. ??????????

Now that was easily refuted

Hope this helps !!!

I cant point you to anything. This is what I see in scripture.

 

[civic]

I cant point you to anything. This is what I see in scripture.

How can you see what God never said in Roman’s 9?????

 

[brightfame52]

How can you see what God never said in Roman’s 9?????

You mean what you cant see in Romans 9

 

[TomL]

You mean what you cant see in Romans 9

There is no unconditional election to salvation in Romans 9

faith is the condition

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

righteous is obtained by faith not works of the law

 

[brightfame52]

There is no unconditional election to salvation in Romans 9

faith is the condition

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

righteous is obtained by faith not works of the law

It is, but unfortunately you cant see it

 

[TomL]

It is, but unfortunately you cant see it

Its not there and you need to put on Calvinist lens to see it

There is no unconditional election to salvation in Romans 9

faith is the condition

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

righteous is obtained by faith not works of the law

 

[brightfame52]

Its not there and you need to put on Calvinist lens to see it

There is no unconditional election to salvation in Romans 9

faith is the condition

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

righteous is obtained by faith not works of the law

I can only witness the truth to you but can't make you believe it

 

[TomL]

I can only witness the truth to you but can't make you believe it

You witness your error

There is no unconditional election to salvation in Romans 9

faith is the condition

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

righteous is obtained by faith not works of the law

 

[brightfame52]

You witness your error

There is no unconditional election to salvation in Romans 9

faith is the condition

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

righteous is obtained by faith not works of the law

I can only witness the truth to you but can't make you believe it

 

[TomL]

I can only witness the truth to you but can't make you believe it

You witness your error

There is no unconditional election to salvation in Romans 9

faith is the condition

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

righteous is obtained by faith not works of the law

 

[brightfame52]

You witness your error

There is no unconditional election to salvation in Romans 9

faith is the condition

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

righteous is obtained by faith not works of the law

I can only witness the truth to you but can't make you believe it. Faith is never said to be the condition of Salvation, thats works !

 

[TomL]

I can only witness the truth to you but can't make you believe it. Faith is never said to be the condition of Salvation, thats works !

You are witnessing to error

There is no unconditional election to salvation in Romans 9

faith is the condition

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

righteous is obtained by faith not works of the law