Data on John 1:1

[civic]

You sure about this @civic?

J.

Read the last post to me in this thread and let me know thanks. I provided plenty if scripture on the resurrection of the body.


And let’s remember the words of Job. Though my body rots and turns to dust yet in my flesh I will see God. Job 19:26

 

[Johann]

Read the last post to me in this thread and let me know thanks. I provided plenty if scripture on the resurrection of the body.


And let’s remember the words of Job. Though my body rots and turns to dust yet in my flesh I will see God. Job 19:26

Also, let's remember the words of Paul-

1 Corinthians 1:18 – "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."

Paul emphasizes that the cross is the power of God for those who are saved, while it seems foolish to those who reject Christ.

1 Corinthians 2:2 – "For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified."

Paul states that his focus was solely on the message of Christ and His crucifixion, highlighting its centrality to the gospel.

Galatians 6:14 – "But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world."

Paul expresses that his only boast is in the cross of Christ, which has changed his relationship to the world.

Romans 6:6 – "Knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin."

Paul teaches that believers’ old sinful nature was crucified with Christ, and through that, they are set free from the power of sin.

Philippians 2:8 – "And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross."

Paul speaks of Jesus' humility and obedience, going to the point of death on the cross for the sake of mankind.

Colossians 2:14-15 – "Having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it."

Paul describes how Jesus, through His death on the cross, removed the penalty of sin and triumphed over the spiritual powers of evil.

1 Corinthians 1:23-24 – "But we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God."

Paul emphasizes the centrality of the crucified Christ, which is seen differently by various groups but is the power and wisdom of God for those who believe.

Shalom

J.

 

[Peterlag]

Nope-you "facts" are not pretty darn straight" and we are not discussing the Trinity but the dual nature of Messiah.

Thanks.

J.

The dual nation of Jesus is a spin off from the trinity. Both were adopted from the Pagans long before Jesus was born. There is simply no teaching anywhere in the Scriptures of a duel nature of the Messiah.

If there is a God-Man then why not just come out and say it? Why do we have to jump all over the Bible cutting and pasting pieces of words that are scattered all over the Bible? Why not just teach it? I know enough about how the Bible is written in the New Testament and in the Gospels to know if there was a duel nature it would have been taught. The Gospels would have clearly said...

Verily, verily I say unto you that I am Jesus and I'm also God.

The Epistles would have writings like...

Yay, I Paul do testify that Jesus who is God came down from heaven to be a man for us. And we do know and testify that this same Jesus who you crucified is God. And so let us bow our knee to the one and only true God-Man Jesus Christ.

And yet there's nothing like that anywhere. Not in the Old or New Testament. Not even one complete verse like that.

 

[synergy]

The dual nation of Jesus is a spin off from the trinity. Both were adopted from the Pagans long before Jesus was born. There is simply no teaching anywhere in the Scriptures of a duel nature of the Messiah.

If there is a God-Man then why not just come out and say it? Why do we have to jump all over the Bible cutting and pasting pieces of words that are scattered all over the Bible? Why not just teach it? I know enough about how the Bible is written in the New Testament and in the Gospels to know if there was a duel nature it would have been taught. The Gospels would have clearly said...

Verily, verily I say unto you that I am Jesus and I'm also God.

The Epistles would have writings like...

Yay, I Paul do testify that Jesus who is God came down from heaven to be a man for us. And we do know and testify that this same Jesus who you crucified is God. And so let us bow our knee to the one and only true God-Man Jesus Christ.

And yet there's nothing like that anywhere. Not in the Old or New Testament. Not even one complete verse like that.

John is even more precise concerning Jesus' Deity than what you wrote. The Preincarnate Jesus was the Word of God who is eternally God and took on flesh as the man known to everyone as Jesus Christ. It's all in John Chapter 1. All you have to do is read that chapter.

 

[mikesw]

There is a debate between a Trinitarian and a Unitarian that was still going when I shared this link. The Unitarian is on an endless rant repeating the same ideas over and over again.

 

[Peterlag]

John is even more precise concerning Jesus' Deity than what you wrote. The Preincarnate Jesus was the Word of God who is eternally God and took on flesh as the man known to everyone as Jesus Christ. It's all in John Chapter 1. All you have to do is read that chapter.

I found some data on John 1:2 and it's about time I post it here...

The translation of the Greek masculine pronoun houtos is masculine to agree with its associated noun logos, which is masculine. Most English versions translate the pronoun as “he” that can be very confusing in English. The logos is not a person. It's an “it” the refers to the plan and purpose of God. It's very confusing to translate the pronoun referring to the logos as “he” or “him” which most modern English versions do only because they think that the logos refers to the preincarnate Christ. The ancients translated it with gender because they personified the logos and Wisdom in their literature. Even Proverbs 8:22-31 has Wisdom personified as a woman who worked with God in making the earth.

It really works well in English to use “the same” or “it” to refer to the logos until John 1:11 when the text says “He came to his own” and in John 1:11 the personified logos is embodied in Jesus Christ, who is in fact “the word” in the flesh. The ancients would totally understand this, which is why John wrote it. The logos had existed as God’s plan before Jesus came, but when he came he was still the plan, but now the plan was an actual person. The logos is an “it” but then became a “he” when it was embodied in Jesus Christ is the clearest way to express it in English.

The Jews reading John 1:2 were well aware of what was “in the beginning with God” that helped with creation. It was wisdom. God wisely planned everything He did. Proverbs 8:22, 23, 27, 30 says “The LORD made me [wisdom] at the beginning of His creation before His works of long ago. I was formed before ancient times from the beginning before the earth began. I was there when He established the heavens… I was a skilled craftsman beside Him.” Everything God did He did with wisdom because “wisdom is the principal thing, therefore get wisdom” (Proverbs 4:7.

God’s logos, His plan and purpose was expressed in wise action. Certainly this was the case when God created the heavens and the earth, but now we see that wisdom was also part of God’s plan in this new beginning, a new beginning that will culminate in the restoration of all things. God’s wise plan includes “the logos became flesh” thus, God’s wise plan includes a second Adam who can undo damage done by the original Adam and restore the earth and offer salvation to mankind.

 

[synergy]

I found some data on John 1:2 and it's about time I post it here...

The translation of the Greek masculine pronoun houtos is masculine to agree with its associated noun logos, which is masculine. Most English versions translate the pronoun as “he” that can be very confusing in English. The logos is not a person. It's an “it” the refers to the plan and purpose of God. It's very confusing to translate the pronoun referring to the logos as “he” or “him” which most modern English versions do only because they think that the logos refers to the preincarnate Christ. The ancients translated it with gender because they personified the logos and Wisdom in their literature. Even Proverbs 8:22-31 has Wisdom personified as a woman who worked with God in making the earth.

It really works well in English to use “the same” or “it” to refer to the logos until John 1:11 when the text says “He came to his own” and in John 1:11 the personified logos is embodied in Jesus Christ, who is in fact “the word” in the flesh. The ancients would totally understand this, which is why John wrote it. The logos had existed as God’s plan before Jesus came, but when he came he was still the plan, but now the plan was an actual person. The logos is an “it” but then became a “he” when it was embodied in Jesus Christ is the clearest way to express it in English.

The Jews reading John 1:2 were well aware of what was “in the beginning with God” that helped with creation. It was wisdom. God wisely planned everything He did. Proverbs 8:22, 23, 27, 30 says “The LORD made me [wisdom] at the beginning of His creation before His works of long ago. I was formed before ancient times from the beginning before the earth began. I was there when He established the heavens… I was a skilled craftsman beside Him.” Everything God did He did with wisdom because “wisdom is the principal thing, therefore get wisdom” (Proverbs 4:7.

God’s logos, His plan and purpose was expressed in wise action. Certainly this was the case when God created the heavens and the earth, but now we see that wisdom was also part of God’s plan in this new beginning, a new beginning that will culminate in the restoration of all things. God’s wise plan includes “the logos became flesh” thus, God’s wise plan includes a second Adam who can undo damage done by the original Adam and restore the earth and offer salvation to mankind.

1 Kings 12:22 and 1 Ch 17:3 contradicts your assumption that the Word is just a personification. Both verses clearly show that the Pre-Incarnate Word of God was a Communicative Person who had all the attributes of a Person (Mind, Will, Individuality, etc...)

• 1 Kings 12:22 "But the Word of God came to Shemaiah the man of God, saying,"
• 1 Ch 17:3 "And it happened the same night the Word of God came to Nathan, saying,

This obviously proves that the Word of God (Jesus), who is Uncreated (John 1:3), cannot possibly be just a personification or an "it". He is God.

 

[mikesw]

I found some data on John 1:2 and it's about time I post it here...

The translation of the Greek masculine pronoun houtos is masculine to agree with its associated noun logos, which is masculine. Most English versions translate the pronoun as “he” that can be very confusing in English. The logos is not a person. It's an “it” the refers to the plan and purpose of God. It's very confusing to translate the pronoun referring to the logos as “he” or “him” which most modern English versions do only because they think that the logos refers to the preincarnate Christ. The ancients translated it with gender because they personified the logos and Wisdom in their literature. Even Proverbs 8:22-31 has Wisdom personified as a woman who worked with God in making the earth.

It really works well in English to use “the same” or “it” to refer to the logos until John 1:11 when the text says “He came to his own” and in John 1:11 the personified logos is embodied in Jesus Christ, who is in fact “the word” in the flesh. The ancients would totally understand this, which is why John wrote it. The logos had existed as God’s plan before Jesus came, but when he came he was still the plan, but now the plan was an actual person. The logos is an “it” but then became a “he” when it was embodied in Jesus Christ is the clearest way to express it in English.

The Jews reading John 1:2 were well aware of what was “in the beginning with God” that helped with creation. It was wisdom. God wisely planned everything He did. Proverbs 8:22, 23, 27, 30 says “The LORD made me [wisdom] at the beginning of His creation before His works of long ago. I was formed before ancient times from the beginning before the earth began. I was there when He established the heavens… I was a skilled craftsman beside Him.” Everything God did He did with wisdom because “wisdom is the principal thing, therefore get wisdom” (Proverbs 4:7.

God’s logos, His plan and purpose was expressed in wise action. Certainly this was the case when God created the heavens and the earth, but now we see that wisdom was also part of God’s plan in this new beginning, a new beginning that will culminate in the restoration of all things. God’s wise plan includes “the logos became flesh” thus, God’s wise plan includes a second Adam who can undo damage done by the original Adam and restore the earth and offer salvation to mankind.

The problem with that theory is that even Jews saw the Word as deity.
Aramaic word for "word" used here: מימרא

In the beginning and in great wisdom, God created and finished the heavens and the earth.
And the earth was void and formless, desolate from humans and animals alike. It was empty of all planted vegetation and trees. Darkness was spread on the surface of the depths, and a merciful spirit from before God blew across the water.
And God said: Let there be light, and there was light as he commanded.
God saw that the light was good, and he separated (by word) between light and dark.

www.sefaria.org/Targum_Neofiti

It is amazing how many times a Unitarian can be wrong but still try to make an argument.

 

[Peterlag]

1 Kings 12:22 and 1 Ch 17:3 contradicts your assumption that the Word is just a personification. Both verses clearly show that the Pre-Incarnate Word of God was a Communicative Person who had all the attributes of a Person (Mind, Will, Individuality, etc...)

• 1 Kings 12:22 "But the Word of God came to Shemaiah the man of God, saying,"
• 1 Ch 17:3 "And it happened the same night the Word of God came to Nathan, saying,

This obviously proves that the Word of God (Jesus), who is Uncreated (John 1:3), cannot possibly be just a personification or an "it". He is God.

Well, I'm not God and the word of the Lord came unto me many times saying that the trinity is from the devil.

 

[mikesw]

Well, I'm not God and the word of the Lord came unto me many times saying that the trinity is from the devil.

Yikes. You got to get the devil cast out of you.