Data on John 1:1

[Johann]

Yes, He is no longer a man.

How is Messiah "no longer a man" when--


Resurrection with a Physical Body: After His resurrection, Jesus appeared to His disciples in a tangible, physical body. He invited Thomas to touch His wounds (John 20:27) and ate food with His disciples (Luke 24:42-43), demonstrating that His resurrection was bodily, not merely spiritual. This resurrected body, however, was transformed—imperishable, glorified, and not subject to the limitations of mortal existence (1 Corinthians 15:42-44).

Ascension in a Glorified Body: When Jesus ascended into heaven, He did so bodily (Acts 1:9-11). The angels told the disciples that Jesus would return in the same manner as they had seen Him go into heaven. This indicates that He remains in that glorified body, which is now suited for His heavenly reign.

Christ’s Role as the God-Man in Heaven: Jesus, fully God and fully man, continues His mediatorial work in heaven (1 Timothy 2:5). His glorified body signifies His ongoing identification with humanity and His victory over death, making Him the perfect High Priest who intercedes for us (Hebrews 7:25; 9:24).

Future Implications for Believers: The glorified body of Jesus serves as a prototype for the resurrection bodies believers will receive (Philippians 3:21; 1 John 3:2). Just as Christ’s resurrected body is eternal, imperishable, and glorified, so will the bodies of those united with Him through faith be at the resurrection.
The physical, bodily resurrection of Jesus is foundational to Christian doctrine and our hope of heaven. Because Jesus rose from the dead with a physical body, every Christian has the guarantee of his own bodily resurrection (John 5:21, 28; Romans 8:23). Now Jesus is in heaven, where He is pictured as sitting in a place of authority, at the right hand of God (1 Peter 3:22). But is Jesus’ body in heaven the same as His body on earth?

The Bible is clear that Jesus’ body was resurrected. The tomb was empty. He was recognizable to those who knew Him. Jesus showed Himself to all His disciples after His resurrection, and more than five hundred people were eyewitnesses to His earthly, post-resurrection presence (1 Corinthians 15:4–6). In Luke 24:16, on the road to Emmaus, two of Jesus’ disciples “were kept from recognizing [Jesus].” However, later, “their eyes were opened and they recognized Him” (verse 31). It’s not that Jesus was unrecognizable; it’s that, for a time, the disciples were supernaturally restrained from recognizing Him.

Later in the same chapter of Luke, Christ makes it plain to His disciples that He does have a physical body; He is not a disembodied spirit: “See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have” (Luke 24:39). After spending forty days with His disciples, Jesus ascended bodily into heaven (Acts 1:9). Jesus is still human, and He has a human body in heaven right now. His body is different, however; earthly human flesh is perishable, but heavenly bodies are imperishable (1 Corinthians 15:50). Jesus has a physical body, with a difference. His resurrected body is designed with eternity in view.

First Corinthians 15:35–49 describes what the body of the believer will be like in heaven. Our heavenly bodies will differ from our earthly ones in type of flesh, in splendor, in power, and in longevity. The apostle Paul also states that the believer’s body will be an image of Christ’s body (verse 49). Paul discusses this subject again in 2 Corinthians, where he compares earthly bodies to tents and heavenly bodies to heavenly dwellings (2 Corinthians 5:1–2). Paul says that, once the earthly tents come off, Christians will not be left “naked”—that is, without a body to live in (2 Corinthians 5:3). When the new body is “put on,” we will go from mortality to immortality (2 Corinthians 5:4).

So, we know that the Christian will have a heavenly body like Jesus’ “glorious body” (Philippians 3:21). At His incarnation Jesus took on human flesh, and at His resurrection His body was glorified—although He retained the scars (John 20:27). He will forever be the God-Man, sacrificed for us. Christ, the Creator of the universe, will forever stoop to our level, and He will be known to us in heaven in a tangible form that we can see, hear, and touch (Revelation 21:3–4; 22:4).

Does Jesus have a physical body in heaven? | GotQuestions.org

Does Jesus have a physical body in heaven? Will Jesus eternally be in His glorified human body?

www.gotquestions.org

CHRIST IN HEAVEN IN THE MIDST OF ELDERS
“And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal; and in the MIDST of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.” Revelation 4:6.

“And I beheld, and lo, in the MIDST of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the MIDST of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns, and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.” Revelation 5:6.

And do you believe Jesus is God per John 1.1?

Bereshis (in the Beginning) was the Dvar Hashem [YESHAYAH 55:11; BERESHIS 1:1], and the Dvar Hashem was agav (along with) Hashem [MISHLE 8:30; 30:4], and the Dvar Hashem was nothing less, by nature, than Elohim! [Psa 56:11(10); Yn 17:5; Rev. 19:13]

¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 This one was in the beginning with God.

Two questions.

J.

 

[Johann]

How is Messiah "no longer a man" when--


Resurrection with a Physical Body: After His resurrection, Jesus appeared to His disciples in a tangible, physical body. He invited Thomas to touch His wounds (John 20:27) and ate food with His disciples (Luke 24:42-43), demonstrating that His resurrection was bodily, not merely spiritual. This resurrected body, however, was transformed—imperishable, glorified, and not subject to the limitations of mortal existence (1 Corinthians 15:42-44).

Ascension in a Glorified Body: When Jesus ascended into heaven, He did so bodily (Acts 1:9-11). The angels told the disciples that Jesus would return in the same manner as they had seen Him go into heaven. This indicates that He remains in that glorified body, which is now suited for His heavenly reign.

Christ’s Role as the God-Man in Heaven: Jesus, fully God and fully man, continues His mediatorial work in heaven (1 Timothy 2:5). His glorified body signifies His ongoing identification with humanity and His victory over death, making Him the perfect High Priest who intercedes for us (Hebrews 7:25; 9:24).

Future Implications for Believers: The glorified body of Jesus serves as a prototype for the resurrection bodies believers will receive (Philippians 3:21; 1 John 3:2). Just as Christ’s resurrected body is eternal, imperishable, and glorified, so will the bodies of those united with Him through faith be at the resurrection.
The physical, bodily resurrection of Jesus is foundational to Christian doctrine and our hope of heaven. Because Jesus rose from the dead with a physical body, every Christian has the guarantee of his own bodily resurrection (John 5:21, 28; Romans 8:23). Now Jesus is in heaven, where He is pictured as sitting in a place of authority, at the right hand of God (1 Peter 3:22). But is Jesus’ body in heaven the same as His body on earth?

The Bible is clear that Jesus’ body was resurrected. The tomb was empty. He was recognizable to those who knew Him. Jesus showed Himself to all His disciples after His resurrection, and more than five hundred people were eyewitnesses to His earthly, post-resurrection presence (1 Corinthians 15:4–6). In Luke 24:16, on the road to Emmaus, two of Jesus’ disciples “were kept from recognizing [Jesus].” However, later, “their eyes were opened and they recognized Him” (verse 31). It’s not that Jesus was unrecognizable; it’s that, for a time, the disciples were supernaturally restrained from recognizing Him.

Later in the same chapter of Luke, Christ makes it plain to His disciples that He does have a physical body; He is not a disembodied spirit: “See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have” (Luke 24:39). After spending forty days with His disciples, Jesus ascended bodily into heaven (Acts 1:9). Jesus is still human, and He has a human body in heaven right now. His body is different, however; earthly human flesh is perishable, but heavenly bodies are imperishable (1 Corinthians 15:50). Jesus has a physical body, with a difference. His resurrected body is designed with eternity in view.

First Corinthians 15:35–49 describes what the body of the believer will be like in heaven. Our heavenly bodies will differ from our earthly ones in type of flesh, in splendor, in power, and in longevity. The apostle Paul also states that the believer’s body will be an image of Christ’s body (verse 49). Paul discusses this subject again in 2 Corinthians, where he compares earthly bodies to tents and heavenly bodies to heavenly dwellings (2 Corinthians 5:1–2). Paul says that, once the earthly tents come off, Christians will not be left “naked”—that is, without a body to live in (2 Corinthians 5:3). When the new body is “put on,” we will go from mortality to immortality (2 Corinthians 5:4).

So, we know that the Christian will have a heavenly body like Jesus’ “glorious body” (Philippians 3:21). At His incarnation Jesus took on human flesh, and at His resurrection His body was glorified—although He retained the scars (John 20:27). He will forever be the God-Man, sacrificed for us. Christ, the Creator of the universe, will forever stoop to our level, and He will be known to us in heaven in a tangible form that we can see, hear, and touch (Revelation 21:3–4; 22:4).

Does Jesus have a physical body in heaven? | GotQuestions.org

Does Jesus have a physical body in heaven? Will Jesus eternally be in His glorified human body?

www.gotquestions.org

CHRIST IN HEAVEN IN THE MIDST OF ELDERS
“And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal; and in the MIDST of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.” Revelation 4:6.

“And I beheld, and lo, in the MIDST of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the MIDST of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns, and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.” Revelation 5:6.

And do you believe Jesus is God per John 1.1?

Bereshis (in the Beginning) was the Dvar Hashem [YESHAYAH 55:11; BERESHIS 1:1], and the Dvar Hashem was agav (along with) Hashem [MISHLE 8:30; 30:4], and the Dvar Hashem was nothing less, by nature, than Elohim! [Psa 56:11(10); Yn 17:5; Rev. 19:13]

¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 This one was in the beginning with God.

Two questions.

J.

Feel free to correct me, @synergy-I would greatly appreciate it, especially since this man is accusing me of promoting false religious ideologies.

J.

 

[synergy]

Feel free to correct me, @synergy-I would greatly appreciate it, especially since this man is accusing me of promoting false religious ideologies.

J.

I gave you a thumbs up on what you wrote in Post 361. Is there a particular Post that you would like me to comment on?

I would like to know what @Studyman means by "He is no longer a man" and "Catholic Sabbaths" and if he believes John 1:1 where it declares the Deity of the Word of God (Jesus).

 

[Johann]

I gave you a thumbs up on what you wrote in Post 361. Is there a particular Post that you would like me to comment on?

I would like to know what @Studyman means by "He is no longer a man" and "Catholic Sabbaths" and if he believes John 1:1 where it declares the Deity of the Word of God (Jesus).

Any post where you think I might be mistaken, brother.

J.

 

[Peterlag]

How is Messiah "no longer a man" when--


Resurrection with a Physical Body: After His resurrection, Jesus appeared to His disciples in a tangible, physical body. He invited Thomas to touch His wounds (John 20:27) and ate food with His disciples (Luke 24:42-43), demonstrating that His resurrection was bodily, not merely spiritual. This resurrected body, however, was transformed—imperishable, glorified, and not subject to the limitations of mortal existence (1 Corinthians 15:42-44).

Ascension in a Glorified Body: When Jesus ascended into heaven, He did so bodily (Acts 1:9-11). The angels told the disciples that Jesus would return in the same manner as they had seen Him go into heaven. This indicates that He remains in that glorified body, which is now suited for His heavenly reign.

Christ’s Role as the God-Man in Heaven: Jesus, fully God and fully man, continues His mediatorial work in heaven (1 Timothy 2:5). His glorified body signifies His ongoing identification with humanity and His victory over death, making Him the perfect High Priest who intercedes for us (Hebrews 7:25; 9:24).

Future Implications for Believers: The glorified body of Jesus serves as a prototype for the resurrection bodies believers will receive (Philippians 3:21; 1 John 3:2). Just as Christ’s resurrected body is eternal, imperishable, and glorified, so will the bodies of those united with Him through faith be at the resurrection.
The physical, bodily resurrection of Jesus is foundational to Christian doctrine and our hope of heaven. Because Jesus rose from the dead with a physical body, every Christian has the guarantee of his own bodily resurrection (John 5:21, 28; Romans 8:23). Now Jesus is in heaven, where He is pictured as sitting in a place of authority, at the right hand of God (1 Peter 3:22). But is Jesus’ body in heaven the same as His body on earth?

The Bible is clear that Jesus’ body was resurrected. The tomb was empty. He was recognizable to those who knew Him. Jesus showed Himself to all His disciples after His resurrection, and more than five hundred people were eyewitnesses to His earthly, post-resurrection presence (1 Corinthians 15:4–6). In Luke 24:16, on the road to Emmaus, two of Jesus’ disciples “were kept from recognizing [Jesus].” However, later, “their eyes were opened and they recognized Him” (verse 31). It’s not that Jesus was unrecognizable; it’s that, for a time, the disciples were supernaturally restrained from recognizing Him.

Later in the same chapter of Luke, Christ makes it plain to His disciples that He does have a physical body; He is not a disembodied spirit: “See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have” (Luke 24:39). After spending forty days with His disciples, Jesus ascended bodily into heaven (Acts 1:9). Jesus is still human, and He has a human body in heaven right now. His body is different, however; earthly human flesh is perishable, but heavenly bodies are imperishable (1 Corinthians 15:50). Jesus has a physical body, with a difference. His resurrected body is designed with eternity in view.

First Corinthians 15:35–49 describes what the body of the believer will be like in heaven. Our heavenly bodies will differ from our earthly ones in type of flesh, in splendor, in power, and in longevity. The apostle Paul also states that the believer’s body will be an image of Christ’s body (verse 49). Paul discusses this subject again in 2 Corinthians, where he compares earthly bodies to tents and heavenly bodies to heavenly dwellings (2 Corinthians 5:1–2). Paul says that, once the earthly tents come off, Christians will not be left “naked”—that is, without a body to live in (2 Corinthians 5:3). When the new body is “put on,” we will go from mortality to immortality (2 Corinthians 5:4).

So, we know that the Christian will have a heavenly body like Jesus’ “glorious body” (Philippians 3:21). At His incarnation Jesus took on human flesh, and at His resurrection His body was glorified—although He retained the scars (John 20:27). He will forever be the God-Man, sacrificed for us. Christ, the Creator of the universe, will forever stoop to our level, and He will be known to us in heaven in a tangible form that we can see, hear, and touch (Revelation 21:3–4; 22:4).

Does Jesus have a physical body in heaven? | GotQuestions.org

Does Jesus have a physical body in heaven? Will Jesus eternally be in His glorified human body?

www.gotquestions.org

CHRIST IN HEAVEN IN THE MIDST OF ELDERS
“And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal; and in the MIDST of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.” Revelation 4:6.

“And I beheld, and lo, in the MIDST of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the MIDST of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns, and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.” Revelation 5:6.

And do you believe Jesus is God per John 1.1?

Bereshis (in the Beginning) was the Dvar Hashem [YESHAYAH 55:11; BERESHIS 1:1], and the Dvar Hashem was agav (along with) Hashem [MISHLE 8:30; 30:4], and the Dvar Hashem was nothing less, by nature, than Elohim! [Psa 56:11(10); Yn 17:5; Rev. 19:13]

¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 This one was in the beginning with God.

Two questions.

J.

You refer to Jesus as fully God and fully man.

But there's nothing like that in Scripture. The supposed “dual nature” of Christ is never stated in the Bible and contradicts the Bible and the laws of nature that God set up. Nothing can be 100% of two different things. Jesus cannot be 100% God and 100% man, and that is not a “mystery” but it's a contradiction and a talk of nonsense. A fatal flaw in the “dual nature” theory is that both natures in Jesus would have had to have known about each other. The Jesus God nature would have known about his human nature, and (according to what the Trinitarians teach) his human nature knew he was God, which explains why Trinitarians say Jesus taught that he was God. The book of Hebrews is wrong when it says Jesus was “made like his brothers in every respect”if Jesus knew he was God (Hebrews 2:17). Jesus was not made like other humans in every way if Jesus was 100% God and 100% human at the same time. In fact, he would have been very different from other humans in many respects.

For example, in his God nature he would not have been tempted by anything (James 1:13), and his human part would not have been tempted either since his human nature had access to that same knowledge and assurance. It is written he was tempted in every way like we all are (Hebrews 4:15). Furthermore, God does not have the problems, uncertainty, and anxieties that humans do, and Jesus would not have had those either if he knew he was God. Also, Luke 2:52 says Jesus grew in wisdom, but his human part would have had access to his God part, which would have given him infinite and inherent wisdom. Hebrews says Jesus “learned obedience” by the things that he suffered, but again, the human part of Jesus would have accessed the God part of him and he would not have needed to learn anything.

Kenotic Trinitarians claim that Jesus put off or limited His God nature, but that theology only developed to try to reconcile some of the verses about what Christ experienced on the earth. The idea that God can limit what He knows or experiences as God is not taught or explained in Scripture, and Kenotic Trinitarianism has been rejected by orthodox Trinitarians for exactly that reason. The very simple way to explain the “difficult verses” that Kenotic Trinitarians are trying to explain about Christ’s human experiences is to realize that Jesus was a fully human being, and not both God and man at the same time. Some assert we have to take the Trinity “by faith” but that is not biblical either.

 

[Johann]

But there's nothing like that in Scripture. The supposed “dual nature” of Christ is never stated in the Bible and contradicts the Bible and the laws of nature that God set up.

Next time you write something, make sure you have all the facts straight. @Peterlag


The Dual Nature of Christ Is Biblical
While the specific phrase "fully God and fully man" does not appear in Scripture, the concept is derived from numerous passages that affirm both Jesus' divinity and humanity. The ECFs defended this scriptural teaching and addressed objections similar to those raised in your critique.

Ignatius of Antioch (c. 35–108 AD):

"There is one Physician who is possessed both of flesh and spirit; both made and not made; God existing in flesh; true life in death; both of Mary and of God; first passible and then impassible, even Jesus Christ our Lord." (Epistle to the Ephesians, 7:2)

Ignatius explicitly affirms Christ’s dual nature—both divine and human.
Irenaeus of Lyons (c. 130–202 AD):

"He became what we are, that He might bring us to be even what He is Himself." (Against Heresies, Book 5, Preface)
"The Word became flesh, and the Son of God became the Son of man, so that man, having been taken into the Word, and receiving adoption, might become the son of God." (Against Heresies, Book 3, Chapter 19, Section 1)
Irenaeus emphasizes that Jesus took on full humanity without ceasing to be God, a key component of the dual-nature doctrine.

2. Christ's Human Experience and Knowledge
Your objection claims that if Jesus were fully God, His human nature would have "access" to divine knowledge and attributes, thereby nullifying His human experiences. The ECFs addressed this by emphasizing the true humanity of Jesus, while maintaining His divinity.

Tertullian (c. 160–220 AD):

"Thus, the nature of the two substances displayed Him as man and as God—in one respect born, in the other unborn; in one respect fleshly, in the other spiritual; in one sense weak, in the other exceedingly strong; in one sense dying, in the other living." (On the Flesh of Christ, Chapter 5)

Tertullian recognizes that Christ’s two natures, while united in one person, retained their distinct properties. This explains how Jesus could grow in wisdom (Luke 2:52) and learn obedience (Hebrews 5:8) in His human nature while remaining divine.

Gregory of Nazianzus (c. 329–390 AD):

"He was hungry, but He fed thousands. He was weary, but He is the rest of those who are weary and heavy-laden. He was heavy with sleep, but He walked lightly over the sea. He prays, but He hears prayer. He weeps, but He causes tears to cease. He is sold, and very cheaply, for it is only thirty pieces of silver; but He redeems the world, and that at a great price, for the price was His own blood." (Oration 29: The Third Theological Oration, Section 20)

Gregory affirms the mystery of the two natures of Christ and highlights the coexistence of human limitations and divine attributes.

3. Temptation and the Impeccability of Christ
The objection argues that Christ, if fully God, could not be tempted. The ECFs explained that Christ's temptations were real because of His true humanity, even though He remained sinless due to His divine nature.

Cyril of Alexandria (c. 376–444 AD):

"We do not say that Christ was ignorant of His own divinity, or that the Word was subject to weakness. Rather, since He, being God, became man, He is said to have suffered these things in His human nature for our sakes." (Commentary on John, Book 4)
Cyril argues that Christ’s human nature experienced genuine suffering and temptation, but His divine nature remained impeccable.
Ambrose of Milan (c. 340–397 AD):

"He assumed our temptations, but did not assume our sins. He took upon Himself the likeness of sinful flesh that He might be a sacrifice for sin, yet without sin Himself." (On the Sacrament of the Incarnation of Our Lord, Chapter 6)
Ambrose asserts that Jesus faced real temptations, fully identifying with humanity, yet remained sinless.
4. Kenotic Theology and the "Limitation" of Divine Attributes
The critique mentions kenotic theology, which posits that Jesus "limited" His divine attributes. While some later theologians developed this idea, the ECFs generally upheld that Christ did not divest Himself of divinity but voluntarily refrained from fully exercising His divine power during His earthly ministry.

Athanasius of Alexandria (c. 296–373 AD):

"He was made man, and while He, as the Word, was not restricted to His body, yet He used His body as His instrument and dwelt in it." (On the Incarnation, Chapter 17)
Athanasius explains that Christ's divinity was never diminished or set aside but was expressed in a way compatible with His humanity.
Leo the Great (c. 400–461 AD):

"He who is true God is also true man. In this union, there was no deception, since the humility of man and the loftiness of God both remained... The properties of each nature were preserved, and united in one person." (Letter to Flavian: Tome of Leo, Section 4)
Leo affirms the union of Christ's two natures without confusion or alteration, consistent with orthodox Trinitarian theology.
5. Mystery and the Union of Natures
The objection dismisses the dual nature as contradictory, but the ECFs often referred to the union of Christ’s two natures as a divine mystery.

Gregory of Nyssa (c. 335–394 AD):
"What He was, He continued to be; what He was not, He took to Himself. In the union of the two, each nature is still preserved in its entirety." (Against Eunomius, Book 2)
Gregory affirms that the divine and human natures coexist in Christ without contradiction.
Conclusion:
The ECFs consistently affirmed the dual nature of Christ as fully God and fully man, relying on scriptural evidence and theological reasoning. They addressed objections like those raised in your critique by emphasizing:

The scriptural basis for Christ’s humanity and divinity.
The mystery of the hypostatic union, where the divine and human natures coexist without contradiction.
The reality of Christ’s human experiences, including growth, suffering, and temptation, as essential for His role as the perfect mediator and redeemer.
Their writings demonstrate that the doctrine of Christ’s dual nature is not contradictory but reflects the profound mystery of God’s work in Christ.

@synergy-you agree with this rebuttal against @Peterlag? Any Scripture references you want to post? Or any links?

J.

 

[civic]

“In the beginning” in John 1:1 refers to the point of “time” when only God existed. This is emphasized by the repetition of the idea in John 1:2 “He was with God in the beginning.”

Verse 3, “Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made…” establishes the Word’s presence and activity in the creation, which refers to the Gen 1:1 “beginning”.

The initial expression, enhanced by verse 2, is the establishment of the Word as an eternally existent being, and thus, also God with God the Father.


Doug

Yes just like Jesus said in John 17:5. The Son was with the Father sharing the same Glory together before creation, before the world came into existence

Amen !!!

 

[civic]

How is Messiah "no longer a man" when--


Resurrection with a Physical Body: After His resurrection, Jesus appeared to His disciples in a tangible, physical body. He invited Thomas to touch His wounds (John 20:27) and ate food with His disciples (Luke 24:42-43), demonstrating that His resurrection was bodily, not merely spiritual. This resurrected body, however, was transformed—imperishable, glorified, and not subject to the limitations of mortal existence (1 Corinthians 15:42-44).

Ascension in a Glorified Body: When Jesus ascended into heaven, He did so bodily (Acts 1:9-11). The angels told the disciples that Jesus would return in the same manner as they had seen Him go into heaven. This indicates that He remains in that glorified body, which is now suited for His heavenly reign.

Christ’s Role as the God-Man in Heaven: Jesus, fully God and fully man, continues His mediatorial work in heaven (1 Timothy 2:5). His glorified body signifies His ongoing identification with humanity and His victory over death, making Him the perfect High Priest who intercedes for us (Hebrews 7:25; 9:24).

Future Implications for Believers: The glorified body of Jesus serves as a prototype for the resurrection bodies believers will receive (Philippians 3:21; 1 John 3:2). Just as Christ’s resurrected body is eternal, imperishable, and glorified, so will the bodies of those united with Him through faith be at the resurrection.
The physical, bodily resurrection of Jesus is foundational to Christian doctrine and our hope of heaven. Because Jesus rose from the dead with a physical body, every Christian has the guarantee of his own bodily resurrection (John 5:21, 28; Romans 8:23). Now Jesus is in heaven, where He is pictured as sitting in a place of authority, at the right hand of God (1 Peter 3:22). But is Jesus’ body in heaven the same as His body on earth?

The Bible is clear that Jesus’ body was resurrected. The tomb was empty. He was recognizable to those who knew Him. Jesus showed Himself to all His disciples after His resurrection, and more than five hundred people were eyewitnesses to His earthly, post-resurrection presence (1 Corinthians 15:4–6). In Luke 24:16, on the road to Emmaus, two of Jesus’ disciples “were kept from recognizing [Jesus].” However, later, “their eyes were opened and they recognized Him” (verse 31). It’s not that Jesus was unrecognizable; it’s that, for a time, the disciples were supernaturally restrained from recognizing Him.

Later in the same chapter of Luke, Christ makes it plain to His disciples that He does have a physical body; He is not a disembodied spirit: “See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have” (Luke 24:39). After spending forty days with His disciples, Jesus ascended bodily into heaven (Acts 1:9). Jesus is still human, and He has a human body in heaven right now. His body is different, however; earthly human flesh is perishable, but heavenly bodies are imperishable (1 Corinthians 15:50). Jesus has a physical body, with a difference. His resurrected body is designed with eternity in view.

First Corinthians 15:35–49 describes what the body of the believer will be like in heaven. Our heavenly bodies will differ from our earthly ones in type of flesh, in splendor, in power, and in longevity. The apostle Paul also states that the believer’s body will be an image of Christ’s body (verse 49). Paul discusses this subject again in 2 Corinthians, where he compares earthly bodies to tents and heavenly bodies to heavenly dwellings (2 Corinthians 5:1–2). Paul says that, once the earthly tents come off, Christians will not be left “naked”—that is, without a body to live in (2 Corinthians 5:3). When the new body is “put on,” we will go from mortality to immortality (2 Corinthians 5:4).

So, we know that the Christian will have a heavenly body like Jesus’ “glorious body” (Philippians 3:21). At His incarnation Jesus took on human flesh, and at His resurrection His body was glorified—although He retained the scars (John 20:27). He will forever be the God-Man, sacrificed for us. Christ, the Creator of the universe, will forever stoop to our level, and He will be known to us in heaven in a tangible form that we can see, hear, and touch (Revelation 21:3–4; 22:4).

Does Jesus have a physical body in heaven? | GotQuestions.org

Does Jesus have a physical body in heaven? Will Jesus eternally be in His glorified human body?

www.gotquestions.org

CHRIST IN HEAVEN IN THE MIDST OF ELDERS
“And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal; and in the MIDST of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.” Revelation 4:6.

“And I beheld, and lo, in the MIDST of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the MIDST of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns, and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.” Revelation 5:6.

And do you believe Jesus is God per John 1.1?

Bereshis (in the Beginning) was the Dvar Hashem [YESHAYAH 55:11; BERESHIS 1:1], and the Dvar Hashem was agav (along with) Hashem [MISHLE 8:30; 30:4], and the Dvar Hashem was nothing less, by nature, than Elohim! [Psa 56:11(10); Yn 17:5; Rev. 19:13]

¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 This one was in the beginning with God.

Two questions.

J.

JW's deny the Resurrection of Jesus and my osmosis deny the gospel which at its heart and center is the bodily Resurrection,Ascension and 2nd Coming of Christ as He promised.

 

[Studyman]

I gave you a thumbs up on what you wrote in Post 361. Is there a particular Post that you would like me to comment on?

I would like to know what @Studyman means by "He is no longer a man"

I differ from Johann in that I do my own study, and I don't adopt, and then copy and paste sermons from random preachers promoting the religious philosophies of the religious sects and businesses of this world, including but not limited to the religious sect of the Baptists, or JW's or Mormons, or any other of this world's "many" religious sects and businesses who call Jesus Lord, Lord, who come in His Name. I also believe ALL that is written in Scripture and am not interested in using, and sometimes twisting Scriptures to promote a certain religious philosophy popular in the religions of this world God placed me in. The reason for this belief, is because of all the warnings in the Law and Prophets, the Words of the Jesus "of the bible" and the warnings of Paul himself that I have posted and asked questions about many times on this forum but am ignored and preached down to by self-exalted religious men.

I don't really believe you are interested at all in discussing the Scriptures concerning the difference between an earthly body of flesh and bones, and a heavenly body that has been changed so as to enter the Kingdom of God.

Nevertheless, because I don't like it when men refuse to show me even the simplest of courtesies, like answering questions that I pose, I will answer yours as it is unrighteous to repay evil with evil.

1 Cor. 15: 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam (Jesus) was made a quickening spirit.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthyDead and buried, bones in the ground whose soul is waiting to be awakened at the return of the Jesus "of the bible") the second man is the Lord from heaven. (Who is not dead but was raised from the dead, "Changed" and is now in the Kingdom of Heaven at the right Hand of His Father, advocating between me and His Father to this day) At least this is what the Scriptures teach.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we (Body of Christ) have borne the "image of the earthy", we "shall also bear" the "image of the heavenly". (Be Changed)

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood (mortal MAN) cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep,(Die) but "we shall all be changed",

Changed into what?

1 John 3: 1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and "it doth not yet appear" what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for (Then) we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him "purifieth himself," even as he is pure.

So according to both Paul and John, who I "know" are Apostles of Christ, they teach that earthly flesh and blood man, cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. They, including the man Jesus must be "Changed" in the resurrection. Jesus being the "First" human to receive such a resurrection.

1 Cor. 15: 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.


Now there are some who don't believe Jesus was "flesh and Blood", that HE was immortal God instead. And there are some who believe HE didn't change but was the same flesh as a man both before and after His death, that ascended up to His Father and My Father that HE said was greater than HE.

And there are "many" that Paul warned about, " which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we". These men "Transform themselves into Apostles of Christ".

These men preach to others that they know more than Paul and John and they exalt themselves above all the Disciples, and boast, and preach to others, that they know "What we shall be" even though Paul and John and the rest of the Disciples didn't. These are the men who are most dangerous to listen too, that Jesus, the Prophets and Paul said to beware of.

So when I say Jesus is no longer a man, I mean that HE is no longer the same man HE was before HE was murdered and raised from the dead by His Father, changed and ascended into heaven. And not just His Flesh was changed, but His knowledge as well.

Mark 13: 35 31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 32 But of that day and that hour knoweth "no man", no, not the angels which are in heaven, "neither the Son", but the Father.

I'm sure Yeshua knows the hour now.

But will this understanding you asked for and I shared with you change anything? Will you say, "I can see how you may believe this"? You might, but not others who are here to defend, justify and promote the religious philosophies of their adopted religious business, in spite of the Scriptures they choose to ignore.

I am surprised you have never heard of the Catholic Sabbath. It's hard to believe really. Nevertheless, you asked the question, and I will answer in another post.

 

[civic]

I differ from Johann in that I do my own study, and I don't adopt, and then copy and paste sermons from random preachers promoting the religious philosophies of the religious sects and businesses of this world, including but not limited to the religious sect of the Baptists, or JW's or Mormons, or any other of this world's "many" religious sects and businesses who call Jesus Lord, Lord, who come in His Name. I also believe ALL that is written in Scripture and am not interested in using, and sometimes twisting Scriptures to promote a certain religious philosophy popular in the religions of this world God placed me in. The reason for this belief, is because of all the warnings in the Law and Prophets, the Words of the Jesus "of the bible" and the warnings of Paul himself that I have posted and asked questions about many times on this forum but am ignored and preached down to by self-exalted religious men.

I don't really believe you are interested at all in discussing the Scriptures concerning the difference between an earthly body of flesh and bones, and a heavenly body that has been changed so as to enter the Kingdom of God.

Nevertheless, because I don't like it when men refuse to show me even the simplest of courtesies, like answering questions that I pose, I will answer yours as it is unrighteous to repay evil with evil.

1 Cor. 15: 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam (Jesus) was made a quickening spirit.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthyDead and buried, bones in the ground whose soul is waiting to be awakened at the return of the Jesus "of the bible") the second man is the Lord from heaven. (Who is not dead but was raised from the dead, "Changed" and is now in the Kingdom of Heaven at the right Hand of His Father, advocating between me and His Father to this day) At least this is what the Scriptures teach.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we (Body of Christ) have borne the "image of the earthy", we "shall also bear" the "image of the heavenly". (Be Changed)

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood (mortal MAN) cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep,(Die) but "we shall all be changed",

Changed into what?

1 John 3: 1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and "it doth not yet appear" what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for (Then) we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him "purifieth himself," even as he is pure.

So according to both Paul and John, who I "know" are Apostles of Christ, they teach that earthly flesh and blood man, cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. They, including the man Jesus must be "Changed" in the resurrection. Jesus being the "First" human to receive such a resurrection.

1 Cor. 15: 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.


Now there are some who don't believe Jesus was "flesh and Blood", that HE was immortal God instead. And there are some who believe HE didn't change but was the same flesh as a man both before and after His death, that ascended up to His Father and My Father that HE said was greater than HE.

And there are "many" that Paul warned about, " which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we". These men "Transform themselves into Apostles of Christ".

These men preach to others that they know more than Paul and John and they exalt themselves above all the Disciples, and boast, and preach to others, that they know "What we shall be" even though Paul and John and the rest of the Disciples didn't. These are the men who are most dangerous to listen too, that Jesus, the Prophets and Paul said to beware of.

So when I say Jesus is no longer a man, I mean that HE is no longer the same man HE was before HE was murdered and raised from the dead by His Father, changed and ascended into heaven. And not just His Flesh was changed, but His knowledge as well.

Mark 13: 35 31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 32 But of that day and that hour knoweth "no man", no, not the angels which are in heaven, "neither the Son", but the Father.

I'm sure Yeshua knows the hour now.

But will this understanding you asked for and I shared with you change anything? Will you say, "I can see how you may believe this"? You might, but not others who are here to defend, justify and promote the religious philosophies of their adopted religious business, in spite of the Scriptures they choose to ignore.

I am surprised you have never heard of the Catholic Sabbath. It's hard to believe really. Nevertheless, you asked the question, and I will answer in another post.

Spiritual does not mean immaterial as those who reject the physical, bodily Resurrection of Christ

Philippians 3:20-21
For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; 21 who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.
NASB

Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you.
NASB

Believers bodies will be transformed from its current state which is corrupt, sinful mortal to a body like His which Incorruptible, Holy/Sinless and Immortal in the Resurrection as per 1 Cor 15, Romans 8:11, Phil 3:21.

And when we compare the above with Paul in these passages below we see that the body(soma) in the context is a real material body which is physical in the Resurrection but controlled completely by the Spirit in the afterlife.

pneumatikos: spiritual

Original Word: πνευματικός, ή, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: pneumatikos
Phonetic Spelling: (pnyoo-mat-ik-os')
Definition: spiritual
Usage: spiritual.



Thayer’s Greek Lexicon- belonging to the Divine Spirit; Used 26 times in the N.T.

a. in reference to things; emanating from the Divine Spirit, or exhibiting its effects and so its character: χάρισμα, Romans 1:11; εὐλογία, Ephesians 1:3; σοφία καί σύνεσις πνευματικῇ (opposed to σοφία σαρκικῇ, 2 Corinthians 1:12; ψυχική, James 3:15), Colossians 1:9; ᾠδαί, divinely inspired, and so redolent of the Holy Spirit, Colossians 3:16; (Ephesians 5:19 Lachmann brackets); ὁ νόμος (opposed to a σάρκινος man), Romans 7:14; θυσίαι, tropically, the acts of a life dedicated to God and approved by him, due to the influence of the Holy Spirit (tacitly opposed to the sacrifices of an external worship), 1 Peter 2:5; equivalent to produced by the sole power of God himself without natural instrumeutality, supernatural, βρῶμα, πόμα, πέτρα, 1 Corinthians 10:3, 4 ((cf. 'Teaching' etc. 10, 3 [ET])); πνευματικά, thoughts, opinions, precepts, maxims, ascribable to the Holy Spirit working in the soul, 1 Corinthians 2:13 (on which see συγκρίνω, 1); τά πνευματικά, spirithal gifts — of the endowments called χαρίσματα (see χάρισμα), 1 Corinthians 12:1; 1 Corinthians 14:1; universally, the spiritual or heavenly blessings of the gospel, opposed to τά σαρκικά, Romans 15:27; (1 Corinthians 9:11).

b. in reference to persons; one who is filled with and governed by the Spirit of God: 1 Corinthians 2:15 (cf. ); (); ; Galatians 6:1; οἶκος πνευματικός, of a body of Christians (see οἶκος, 1 b. at the end), 1 Peter 2:5. (The word is not found in the O. T. (cf. Winers Grammar, § 34, 3).


Natural(psychikos) body
Spiritual(pneumatikos) body


1 Corinthians 15:44
it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

Below we see how Paul uses and contrasts the words natural (psychikos) and spiritual (pneumatikos) below;


1 Corinthians 2:14-16
14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. 15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no man.

Paul is clearly contrasting the unsaved with the saved with the natural man and spiritual man. One is controlled by the natural or the flesh while the other is controlled by the spirit/spiritual- Holy Spirit. Just like in 1 Cor 15:44 where Paul is contrasting the natural body that is controlled by the flesh with the spiritual body that is controlled by the Spirit. Both are real physical bodies but the difference is one is controlled by the flesh which is carnal and the other is controlled by the Spirit and is spiritual. One has the appetites and desires of the flesh while the other has appetites and desires controlled by the Spirit. Hence a spiritual body is one that is controlled by the Spirit of God in the Resurrection.

Paul’s usage below of spiritual(pneumatikos) in 1 Corinthians 10 where he calls the rock, food and drink spiritual it does not mean an immaterial rock, food and drink but a real Rock, Manna and Water which were with the Israelites in the wilderness wanderings.

1 Corinthians 10:1-4
For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 and all ate the same spiritual food; 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.

Now Paul drives home the point of our new literal physical bodies below in heaven from the text in 2nd Cor 5 below;

2 Corinthians 5:1-5
For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands. 2 We grow weary in our present bodies, and we long to put on our heavenly bodies like new clothing. 3 For we will put on heavenly bodies; we will not be spirits without bodies. 4 While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it's not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life. 5 God himself has prepared us for this, and as a guarantee he has given us his Holy Spirit.

You see there is no bodiless spirit men in heaven unclothed (no body) but indeed with a heavenly body (like Jesus) has now in heaven which is flesh and bones like He said His Resurrected body was to His Disciples.

Spiritual is used to describe these physical things:

the spiritual man
he who is spiritual
the spiritual rock
the spiritual food
the spiritual drink
the spiritual songs
the spiritual house
the spiritual things
the spiritual body

Here is something to consider, contemplate and seek the Lords wisdom on this aspect below regarding the Resurrection. We must remember Paul defines the gospel in 1 Cor 15:1-8 then spends the entire rest of the chapter focusing on the centerpiece of the gospel, the resurrection of Christ. Below are the reasons why in my humble estimation.

We are not born again / saved by the atonement. It’s His Resurrection from the dead that is life giving , that conquered sin, death and the devil.

We must go back to the gospel and what the scriptures teach about the good news of Jesus death, burial and resurrection as defined in 1 Corinthians 15.

1 Corinthians 15:17- And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.

The passage declares if Christ is not risen, raised from the dead, resurrected then our faith is in vain and we are still dead in our sins. We are saved by His life/Resurrection not His death. His death atoned for sin but does not give life.


Romans 4:24-25
but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. 25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

Paul declares in Romans 5:10 the following: For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! Cf Acts 17:31.

John 11:25-26
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”

We know that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ. Romans 10:17. We know that God saves those who believe – 1 Corinthians 1:21. We know that we receive the spirit and are sealed with the spirit through belief in the gospel- Ephesians 1:13.

Philippians 3:10 refers to the power displayed in the resurrection and the power that comes from it. The resurrection of Jesus Christ was a powerful demonstration of the power of God. Not only was Jesus raised up but we were raised up with Him (Ephesians 4:8; 2:6).

There is life-giving power of His resurrection. The resurrection power of God is His dunamis or explosive power. Resurrection life brings the life of God at our conversion when we are born again. (John 11:25 – 26; 1 John 5:12). The Holy Spirit indwells us when we are born again. We are changed, born of the Spirit, and we have the same life in us as He has, the Zoe life of God (2 Corinthians 5:17; John 3:3-8.)


Romans 6:4-6
Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so, we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.

Romans 8:10-11
And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

@Studyman you have bit off way more than you can chew.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Studyman]

I would like to know what @Studyman means by "Catholic Sabbaths"

Again, I really doubt that you are truly interested in Biblical Truth concerning the difference between God's Sabbath that was made for man, and the Catholic Sabbath that was made to unite the pagan and Jewish religions in Constantine's time. There is no evidence, prophesy or teaching in the Bible that explains the change from the 7th day to the 1st day of the week. So a person must go outside of the bible into the history of religions to find the reason for the change.

There is "The History of the Councils of the Church" volumes 1-5 by Charles Joseph Hefele, 1809-1893

This is a very informative book into the doctrines of the council of Nicaea 350 years after the death and resurrection of the Lord's Christ, and the changes which shaped modern "Christianity".

“Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday but shall work on that day; but the Lord’s day they shall especially honour, and, as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If, however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be shut out from Christ”
(Strand, op. cit., citing Charles J. Hefele, A History of the Councils of the Church, 2 [Edinburgh, 1876] 316).

There are also very famous Catholic Philosophers and Priests on record concerning the reasons why modern Christianity rejects God's Sabbaths in favor of the Catholic Sabbath.

... you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify.
—The Faith of Our Fathers, by James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore, 88th edition, page 89. Originally published in 1876, republished and Copyright 1980 by TAN Books and Publishers, Inc., pages

If Protestants would follow the Bible, they would worship God on the Sabbath Day. In keeping the Sunday they are following a law of the Catholic Church.
—Albert Smith, Chancellor of the Archdiocese of Baltimore, replying for the Cardinal, in a letter dated February 10, 1920.

Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change was her act. And the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters.
—C. F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons, in answer to a letter regarding the change of the Sabbath, November 11, 1895.

QUESTION: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
ANSWER: We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 336), transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.
–PETER GEIERMANN, The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, Second Edition, 1910, p. 50.

The Sun was a foremost god with heathen-dom…The sun has worshippers at this hour in Persia and other lands…. There is, in truth, something royal, kingly about the sun, making it a fit emblem of Jesus, the Sun of Justice. Hence the church in these countries would seem to have said, to 'Keep that old pagan name [Sunday]. It shall remain consecrated, sanctified.' And thus the pagan Sunday, dedicated to Balder, became the Christian Sunday, sacred to Jesus.
—William Gildea, Doctor of Divinity, The Catholic World, March, 1894, p. 80

Question: How prove you that the Church hath power to command feasts and holydays?

Answer: By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of; and therefore they fondly contradict themselves, by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same Church.
—Henry Tuberville, An Abridgment of the Christian Doctrine (1833 approbation), p.58 (Same statement in Manual of Christian Doctrine, ed. by Daniel Ferris [1916 ed.], p.67)

Some theologians have held that God likewise directly determined the Sunday as the day of worship in the NEW LAW, that he himself has explicitly substituted Sunday for the Sabbath. But this theory is entirely abandoned. It is now commonly held that God simply gave His church the power to set aside whatever day or days she would deem suitable as holy days. The church chose Sunday, the first day of the week, and in the course of time added other days as holy days.
—Vincent J. Kelly, Forbidden Sunday and Feast-Day Occupations, Washington, DC, Catholic University of America Press, Studies in Sacred Theology, No. 70.,1943, p. 2.

So when I say "the Catholic Sabbath", I talking about the sabbath that was created by the Catholic Church. When I say "God's Sabbath", I am talking about the Sabbath God made for men.

It has long been a contentious issue. But given the Jesus "of the bibles" warnings are this world's religion "who come in His Name", I have chosen to honor God in HIS Sabbath, (7th day) and not reject His Sabbath in favor of the Catholic Sabbath. (1st day)

 

[Johann]

pneumatikos: spiritual

Original Word: πνευματικός, ή, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: pneumatikos
Phonetic Spelling: (pnyoo-mat-ik-os')
Definition: spiritual
Usage: spiritual.

Correct @civic and @Studyman would be much more effective if he studied Scripture in Greek and Hebrew or had a basic understanding of these languages. I'm glad to see you're focusing on the core doctrine of the death, burial, and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Spiritual (πνευματικός – pneumatikos)

Root Word: Pneuma (πνεῦμα) meaning "spirit," "breath," or "wind."
Definition: Pertaining to the spirit, often in contrast to the physical or natural; related to the Holy Spirit, divine nature, or the inner spiritual life of a person.
Key Uses in Scripture:
Romans 1:11

"For I long to see you, that I may impart to you some spiritual (πνευματικόν) gift to strengthen you."
Refers to gifts related to the Spirit.
1 Corinthians 2:14

"The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually (πνευματικῶς) discerned."
Suggests understanding through the Spirit rather than the physical senses.

1 Corinthians 15:44

"It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual (πνευματικόν) body."
Contrasts the physical body with the resurrected, spiritually transformed body.

2. Immaterial (ἄυλος – aulos)

Root Words:
A- (α-), a prefix meaning "not" or "without."
Hylē (ὕλη), meaning "matter" or "substance."
Definition: Without material substance; incorporeal or immaterial.

Key Uses in Classical and Theological Contexts:
While the term aulos is not explicitly found in the New Testament, it is used in Greek philosophy and early Christian theological writings to describe non-material realities, particularly the nature of God, the soul, or spiritual beings.

Related Terms and Concepts:
Psychikos (ψυχικός) – "Natural" or "Soulish"
Derived from psyche (ψυχή), meaning "soul" or "life."
Often contrasted with pneumatikos (spiritual) to describe things that are of the human or earthly nature rather than the divine.

1 Corinthians 2:14-15
The "natural" (ψυχικός) person lacks spiritual discernment, emphasizing the material over the immaterial.

Asomatos (ἀσώματος) – "Incorporeal"
Root Words:
A- (α-), meaning "not."
Soma (σῶμα), meaning "body."
Definition: Without a body or physical form; incorporeal.

Used in theological contexts to describe God, angels, or other spiritual entities.

Aoratos (ἀόρατος) – "Invisible"
Root Words:
A- (α-), meaning "not."
Horao (ὁράω), meaning "to see."
Definition: Invisible or unseen, often referring to the spiritual or divine realm.

Colossians 1:15
Refers to Christ as the "image of the invisible (ἀόρατος) God."


Spiritual (πνευματικός) describes things pertaining to the spirit, especially in contrast to physical or material realities.
Immaterial (ἄυλος) means "without material substance" and is conceptually present in theological discussions though not explicitly in the New Testament.
Other related Greek terms like asomatos (incorporeal) and aoratos (invisible) further emphasize immaterial or spiritual realities.
These terms collectively highlight the distinction between the physical and spiritual realms in both Scripture and theological discourse.

We are all students of the Scriptures, and just as the body has many members, we all need each other to grow and mature in the faith. As Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 12:12-14, "For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body-Jews or Greeks, slaves or free-and all were made to drink of one Spirit. For the body does not consist of one member but of many."

As for what @Studyman is saying about me, I am not concerned, for as 1 Samuel 16:7 reminds us, "The Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart." The Lord knows my heart, and that is all that matters.

J.

 

[Studyman]

Spiritual does not mean immaterial as those who reject the physical, bodily Resurrection of Christ

I never said, suggested or implied that it is. I am simply pointing out that you and Johann and "many" who come in Christ's Name, claim to know what the Apostles clearly didn't know, that you know what body the Faithful shall inherit.

I don't know what my body shall be and neither did Paul and John. And neither do you and Johann. But you have adopted the religious philosophy of someone who has transformed themselves into apostles of Christ. And as a result, believe that you know better than the real Apostles of Christ. I am sticking with the real Apostles.

Philippians 3:20-21
For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; 21 who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.
NASB

But Paul and John didn't know what this Glory was. You and the disciples of the BBS claim you know, but if John didn't know, then you don't either.

Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you.
NASB

I know you are Johann are not allowed to answer my questions, nevertheless, I will ask anyway.

When, in the 4 gospels which were eyewitnesses of Jesus, as HE walked the earth before HE was murdered and raised from the dead, did HE give HIS Spirit to another human being? Of course you will not answer. Nevertheless, it is a relevant question.

Believers bodies will be transformed from its current state which is corrupt, sinful mortal to a body like His which Incorruptible, Holy/Sinless and Immortal in the Resurrection as per 1 Cor 15, Romans 8:11, Phil 3:21.

This is a carefully worded deception. The human body is flesh and blood and is corruptible. Jesus, before HE was changed, was flesh and blood and therefore was "corruptible". He learned obedience through the things HE suffered. He was Tempted in "ALL" ways as His Brethren, yet HE didn't let Sin reign in His Mortal body. The effort, dedication and Love and devotion for His Father, called Faith, brought Him victory over Sin and death. You preach to the world that HE was not born corruptible, that HE was fully God and therefore could not sin, could not be tempted and could not die.

This doctrine completely strips Him of His Honor and Glory and the reason's God said it was given to Him, and negates and demeans His Great effort and suffering HE endured for me as well as casts His Father as a respecter of persons who was in on the scam that Jesus was born with a silver spoon and wasn't flesh and blood as other mortal humans.

I know you are promoting a very seductive and popular religious philosophy, but as I have shown many times, the Holy Scriptures as a whole do not support this popular religious philosophy. And I will never agree with your religion that Jesus cheated to become the firstfruit of those who slept. But I know you have a mission, and nothing the scriptures actually say will detour you from carrying out your mission, which is to promote "YOUR" specific religion to grow your specific religious business. Nevertheless, it seems prudent to point these things out for those who might be reading along.

And when we compare the above with Paul in these passages below we see that the body(soma) in the context is a real material body which is physical in the Resurrection but controlled completely by the Spirit in the afterlife.

pneumatikos: spiritual

Original Word: πνευματικός, ή, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: pneumatikos
Phonetic Spelling: (pnyoo-mat-ik-os')
Definition: spiritual
Usage: spiritual.



Thayer’s Greek Lexicon- belonging to the Divine Spirit; Used 26 times in the N.T.

a. in reference to things; emanating from the Divine Spirit, or exhibiting its effects and so its character: χάρισμα, Romans 1:11; εὐλογία, Ephesians 1:3; σοφία καί σύνεσις πνευματικῇ (opposed to σοφία σαρκικῇ, 2 Corinthians 1:12; ψυχική, James 3:15), Colossians 1:9; ᾠδαί, divinely inspired, and so redolent of the Holy Spirit, Colossians 3:16; (Ephesians 5:19 Lachmann brackets); ὁ νόμος (opposed to a σάρκινος man), Romans 7:14; θυσίαι, tropically, the acts of a life dedicated to God and approved by him, due to the influence of the Holy Spirit (tacitly opposed to the sacrifices of an external worship), 1 Peter 2:5; equivalent to produced by the sole power of God himself without natural instrumeutality, supernatural, βρῶμα, πόμα, πέτρα, 1 Corinthians 10:3, 4 ((cf. 'Teaching' etc. 10, 3 [ET])); πνευματικά, thoughts, opinions, precepts, maxims, ascribable to the Holy Spirit working in the soul, 1 Corinthians 2:13 (on which see συγκρίνω, 1); τά πνευματικά, spirithal gifts — of the endowments called χαρίσματα (see χάρισμα), 1 Corinthians 12:1; 1 Corinthians 14:1; universally, the spiritual or heavenly blessings of the gospel, opposed to τά σαρκικά, Romans 15:27; (1 Corinthians 9:11).

b. in reference to persons; one who is filled with and governed by the Spirit of God: 1 Corinthians 2:15 (cf. ); (); ; Galatians 6:1; οἶκος πνευματικός, of a body of Christians (see οἶκος, 1 b. at the end), 1 Peter 2:5. (The word is not found in the O. T. (cf. Winers Grammar, § 34, 3).


Natural(psychikos) body
Spiritual(pneumatikos) body


1 Corinthians 15:44
it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

Below we see how Paul uses and contrasts the words natural (psychikos) and spiritual (pneumatikos) below;


1 Corinthians 2:14-16
14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. 15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no man.

Paul is clearly contrasting the unsaved with the saved with the natural man and spiritual man. One is controlled by the natural or the flesh while the other is controlled by the spirit/spiritual- Holy Spirit. Just like in 1 Cor 15:44 where Paul is contrasting the natural body that is controlled by the flesh with the spiritual body that is controlled by the Spirit. Both are real physical bodies but the difference is one is controlled by the flesh which is carnal and the other is controlled by the Spirit and is spiritual. One has the appetites and desires of the flesh while the other has appetites and desires controlled by the Spirit. Hence a spiritual body is one that is controlled by the Spirit of God in the Resurrection.

Paul’s usage below of spiritual(pneumatikos) in 1 Corinthians 10 where he calls the rock, food and drink spiritual it does not mean an immaterial rock, food and drink but a real Rock, Manna and Water which were with the Israelites in the wilderness wanderings.

1 Corinthians 10:1-4
For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 and all ate the same spiritual food; 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.

Now Paul drives home the point of our new literal physical bodies below in heaven from the text in 2nd Cor 5 below;

2 Corinthians 5:1-5
For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands. 2 We grow weary in our present bodies, and we long to put on our heavenly bodies like new clothing. 3 For we will put on heavenly bodies; we will not be spirits without bodies. 4 While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it's not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life. 5 God himself has prepared us for this, and as a guarantee he has given us his Holy Spirit.

You see there is no bodiless spirit men in heaven unclothed (no body) but indeed with a heavenly body (like Jesus) has now in heaven which is flesh and bones like He said His Resurrected body was to His Disciples.

Spiritual is used to describe these physical things:

the spiritual man
he who is spiritual
the spiritual rock
the spiritual food
the spiritual drink
the spiritual songs
the spiritual house
the spiritual things
the spiritual body

Here is something to consider, contemplate and seek the Lords wisdom on this aspect below regarding the Resurrection. We must remember Paul defines the gospel in 1 Cor 15:1-8 then spends the entire rest of the chapter focusing on the centerpiece of the gospel, the resurrection of Christ. Below are the reasons why in my humble estimation.

We are not born again / saved by the atonement. It’s His Resurrection from the dead that is life giving , that conquered sin, death and the devil.

We must go back to the gospel and what the scriptures teach about the good news of Jesus death, burial and resurrection as defined in 1 Corinthians 15.

1 Corinthians 15:17- And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.

The passage declares if Christ is not risen, raised from the dead, resurrected then our faith is in vain and we are still dead in our sins. We are saved by His life/Resurrection not His death. His death atoned for sin but does not give life.


Romans 4:24-25
but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. 25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

Paul declares in Romans 5:10 the following: For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! Cf Acts 17:31.

John 11:25-26
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”

We know that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ. Romans 10:17. We know that God saves those who believe – 1 Corinthians 1:21. We know that we receive the spirit and are sealed with the spirit through belief in the gospel- Ephesians 1:13.

Philippians 3:10 refers to the power displayed in the resurrection and the power that comes from it. The resurrection of Jesus Christ was a powerful demonstration of the power of God. Not only was Jesus raised up but we were raised up with Him (Ephesians 4:8; 2:6).

There is life-giving power of His resurrection. The resurrection power of God is His dunamis or explosive power. Resurrection life brings the life of God at our conversion when we are born again. (John 11:25 – 26; 1 John 5:12). The Holy Spirit indwells us when we are born again. We are changed, born of the Spirit, and we have the same life in us as He has, the Zoe life of God (2 Corinthians 5:17; John 3:3-8.)


Romans 6:4-6
Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so, we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.

Romans 8:10-11
And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

@Studyman you have bit off way more than you can chew.

hope this helps !!!

You are a servant of a religious system of this world that preaches God's Laws are an impossible to obey "Yoke of Bondage" that HE placed on the necks of men who trusted Him. Then you imply in your adopted popular religious philosophy that God lied to Abraham's children by telling them they could obey His Laws, then slaughtered them by the thousands when they didn't. (But not Caleb or Joshua or Zacharias or Simeon or Anna, who was able somehow to obey God's impossible to obey Yoke of Bondage) Then you preach this same God came to earth as "Fully God" to save mankind from the Laws of His former self that you preach are "Beggarly Elements of this world", and worthless Jewish Tradition's. So you create an image of God in the likeness of some random handsome long-haired men, who you preach came to earth to make void and irrelevant God's instruction in Righteousness that Paul said were trustworthy for doctrine, correction, reproof and instruction in righteousness, "That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

And you reject God's Judgments, and God's Feasts, while you cherish, and honor ancient Catholic high days created in worship of this image of God you have adopted. And you reject God's Sabbaths He said to remember, in order to support and promote ancient Catholic sabbaths created 350 years after Jesus ascended to His Father.

And now you want folks to believe that you know what body the Faithful will receive in the resurrection, that neither John, nor Paul nor the Prophets in the Holy Scriptures were allowed to know.

What if God is true, and it is your adopted religious sect that is the deceiver? It seems prudent to consider the possibility, given the "works" of modern religions and the warnings of the Jesus "of the Bible".

 

[Peterlag]

Next time you write something, make sure you have all the facts straight. @Peterlag


The Dual Nature of Christ Is Biblical
While the specific phrase "fully God and fully man" does not appear in Scripture, the concept is derived from numerous passages that affirm both Jesus' divinity and humanity. The ECFs defended this scriptural teaching and addressed objections similar to those raised in your critique.

Ignatius of Antioch (c. 35–108 AD):

"There is one Physician who is possessed both of flesh and spirit; both made and not made; God existing in flesh; true life in death; both of Mary and of God; first passible and then impassible, even Jesus Christ our Lord." (Epistle to the Ephesians, 7:2)

Ignatius explicitly affirms Christ’s dual nature—both divine and human.
Irenaeus of Lyons (c. 130–202 AD):

"He became what we are, that He might bring us to be even what He is Himself." (Against Heresies, Book 5, Preface)
"The Word became flesh, and the Son of God became the Son of man, so that man, having been taken into the Word, and receiving adoption, might become the son of God." (Against Heresies, Book 3, Chapter 19, Section 1)
Irenaeus emphasizes that Jesus took on full humanity without ceasing to be God, a key component of the dual-nature doctrine.

2. Christ's Human Experience and Knowledge
Your objection claims that if Jesus were fully God, His human nature would have "access" to divine knowledge and attributes, thereby nullifying His human experiences. The ECFs addressed this by emphasizing the true humanity of Jesus, while maintaining His divinity.

Tertullian (c. 160–220 AD):

"Thus, the nature of the two substances displayed Him as man and as God—in one respect born, in the other unborn; in one respect fleshly, in the other spiritual; in one sense weak, in the other exceedingly strong; in one sense dying, in the other living." (On the Flesh of Christ, Chapter 5)

Tertullian recognizes that Christ’s two natures, while united in one person, retained their distinct properties. This explains how Jesus could grow in wisdom (Luke 2:52) and learn obedience (Hebrews 5:8) in His human nature while remaining divine.

Gregory of Nazianzus (c. 329–390 AD):

"He was hungry, but He fed thousands. He was weary, but He is the rest of those who are weary and heavy-laden. He was heavy with sleep, but He walked lightly over the sea. He prays, but He hears prayer. He weeps, but He causes tears to cease. He is sold, and very cheaply, for it is only thirty pieces of silver; but He redeems the world, and that at a great price, for the price was His own blood." (Oration 29: The Third Theological Oration, Section 20)

Gregory affirms the mystery of the two natures of Christ and highlights the coexistence of human limitations and divine attributes.

3. Temptation and the Impeccability of Christ
The objection argues that Christ, if fully God, could not be tempted. The ECFs explained that Christ's temptations were real because of His true humanity, even though He remained sinless due to His divine nature.

Cyril of Alexandria (c. 376–444 AD):

"We do not say that Christ was ignorant of His own divinity, or that the Word was subject to weakness. Rather, since He, being God, became man, He is said to have suffered these things in His human nature for our sakes." (Commentary on John, Book 4)
Cyril argues that Christ’s human nature experienced genuine suffering and temptation, but His divine nature remained impeccable.
Ambrose of Milan (c. 340–397 AD):

"He assumed our temptations, but did not assume our sins. He took upon Himself the likeness of sinful flesh that He might be a sacrifice for sin, yet without sin Himself." (On the Sacrament of the Incarnation of Our Lord, Chapter 6)
Ambrose asserts that Jesus faced real temptations, fully identifying with humanity, yet remained sinless.
4. Kenotic Theology and the "Limitation" of Divine Attributes
The critique mentions kenotic theology, which posits that Jesus "limited" His divine attributes. While some later theologians developed this idea, the ECFs generally upheld that Christ did not divest Himself of divinity but voluntarily refrained from fully exercising His divine power during His earthly ministry.

Athanasius of Alexandria (c. 296–373 AD):

"He was made man, and while He, as the Word, was not restricted to His body, yet He used His body as His instrument and dwelt in it." (On the Incarnation, Chapter 17)
Athanasius explains that Christ's divinity was never diminished or set aside but was expressed in a way compatible with His humanity.
Leo the Great (c. 400–461 AD):

"He who is true God is also true man. In this union, there was no deception, since the humility of man and the loftiness of God both remained... The properties of each nature were preserved, and united in one person." (Letter to Flavian: Tome of Leo, Section 4)
Leo affirms the union of Christ's two natures without confusion or alteration, consistent with orthodox Trinitarian theology.
5. Mystery and the Union of Natures
The objection dismisses the dual nature as contradictory, but the ECFs often referred to the union of Christ’s two natures as a divine mystery.

Gregory of Nyssa (c. 335–394 AD):
"What He was, He continued to be; what He was not, He took to Himself. In the union of the two, each nature is still preserved in its entirety." (Against Eunomius, Book 2)
Gregory affirms that the divine and human natures coexist in Christ without contradiction.
Conclusion:
The ECFs consistently affirmed the dual nature of Christ as fully God and fully man, relying on scriptural evidence and theological reasoning. They addressed objections like those raised in your critique by emphasizing:

The scriptural basis for Christ’s humanity and divinity.
The mystery of the hypostatic union, where the divine and human natures coexist without contradiction.
The reality of Christ’s human experiences, including growth, suffering, and temptation, as essential for His role as the perfect mediator and redeemer.
Their writings demonstrate that the doctrine of Christ’s dual nature is not contradictory but reflects the profound mystery of God’s work in Christ.

@synergy-you agree with this rebuttal against @Peterlag? Any Scripture references you want to post? Or any links?

J.

My facts are pretty darn straight when I write biblical data and probably close to if not 100 percent accurate on the subject of the trinity. For authority I'm only concerned with Scripture from what we today refer to as the Bible. I don't see a trinity taught in those 66 books in the Bible. What you are challenging me with is data that man have said about the Bible years later and not what the Bible says.

 

[Johann]

My facts are pretty darn straight when I write biblical data and probably close to if not 100 percent accurate on the subject of the trinity. For authority I'm only concerned with Scripture from what we today refer to as the Bible. I don't see a trinity taught in those 66 books in the Bible. What you are challenging me with is data that man have said about the Bible years later and not what the Bible says.

Nope-you "facts" are not pretty darn straight" and we are not discussing the Trinity but the dual nature of Messiah.

Thanks.

J.

 

[synergy]

So when I say Jesus is no longer a man, I mean that HE is no longer the same man HE was before HE was murdered and raised from the dead by His Father, changed and ascended into heaven. And not just His Flesh was changed, but His knowledge as well.

Now that's a bit more clearer. My view is that Jesus' flesh was transfigured in the Resurrection.

 

[synergy]

Again, I really doubt that you are truly interested in Biblical Truth concerning the difference between God's Sabbath that was made for man, and the Catholic Sabbath that was made to unite the pagan and Jewish religions in Constantine's time. There is no evidence, prophesy or teaching in the Bible that explains the change from the 7th day to the 1st day of the week. So a person must go outside of the bible into the history of religions to find the reason for the change.

You keep repeating the word "Catholic" over and over again. I want you to be clear on which Church you're talking about. Is it the Roman Catholic Church? If so, there was no such thing during the Nicean or Calcedon Councils. Or are you talking about the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church? Let's give you the benefit of the doubt and say you meant the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

There is "The History of the Councils of the Church" volumes 1-5 by Charles Joseph Hefele, 1809-1893

This is a very informative book into the doctrines of the council of Nicaea 350 years after the death and resurrection of the Lord's Christ, and the changes which shaped modern "Christianity".

There are also very famous Catholic Philosophers and Priests on record concerning the reasons why modern Christianity rejects God's Sabbaths in favor of the Catholic Sabbath.

... you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify.
—The Faith of Our Fathers, by James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore, 88th edition, page 89. Originally published in 1876, republished and Copyright 1980 by TAN Books and Publishers, Inc., pages

If Protestants would follow the Bible, they would worship God on the Sabbath Day. In keeping the Sunday they are following a law of the Catholic Church.
—Albert Smith, Chancellor of the Archdiocese of Baltimore, replying for the Cardinal, in a letter dated February 10, 1920.

Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change was her act. And the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters.
—C. F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons, in answer to a letter regarding the change of the Sabbath, November 11, 1895.

The Sun was a foremost god with heathen-dom…The sun has worshippers at this hour in Persia and other lands…. There is, in truth, something royal, kingly about the sun, making it a fit emblem of Jesus, the Sun of Justice. Hence the church in these countries would seem to have said, to 'Keep that old pagan name [Sunday]. It shall remain consecrated, sanctified.' And thus the pagan Sunday, dedicated to Balder, became the Christian Sunday, sacred to Jesus.
—William Gildea, Doctor of Divinity, The Catholic World, March, 1894, p. 80

Question: How prove you that the Church hath power to command feasts and holydays?

Answer: By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of; and therefore they fondly contradict themselves, by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same Church.
—Henry Tuberville, An Abridgment of the Christian Doctrine (1833 approbation), p.58 (Same statement in Manual of Christian Doctrine, ed. by Daniel Ferris [1916 ed.], p.67)

Some theologians have held that God likewise directly determined the Sunday as the day of worship in the NEW LAW, that he himself has explicitly substituted Sunday for the Sabbath. But this theory is entirely abandoned. It is now commonly held that God simply gave His church the power to set aside whatever day or days she would deem suitable as holy days. The church chose Sunday, the first day of the week, and in the course of time added other days as holy days.
—Vincent J. Kelly, Forbidden Sunday and Feast-Day Occupations, Washington, DC, Catholic University of America Press, Studies in Sacred Theology, No. 70.,1943, p. 2.

So when I say "the Catholic Sabbath", I talking about the sabbath that was created by the Catholic Church. When I say "God's Sabbath", I am talking about the Sabbath God made for men.

It has long been a contentious issue. But given the Jesus "of the bibles" warnings are this world's religion "who come in His Name", I have chosen to honor God in HIS Sabbath, (7th day) and not reject His Sabbath in favor of the Catholic Sabbath. (1st day)

You preach to us not to blindly follow random people promoting the religious philosophies of the religious sects and businesses of this world and yet here you are promoting those who twist Scriptures to promote a certain religious philosophy popular in the religions of this world God placed us in.

Instead, let's do our own Bible study and see if there is any evidence of Sunday Worshipping in the NT. Sure there is. Apostle John was worshipping and came to be in the Spirit in the "Lord's Day" (Rev 1:10). The "Lord's Day" is a direct translation of κυριακῇ which is "Sunday" in the Greek Language. IOW, John was worshipping and came to be in the Spirit on Sunday (κυριακῇ).

Rev 1:10 ἐγενόμην ἐν πνεύματι ἐν τῇ κυριακῇ ἡμέρᾳ, καὶ ἤκουσα ὀπίσω μου φωνὴν μεγάλην ὡς σάλπιγγος

Rev_1:10 I came to be in the Spirit in the Lord's day and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

 

[civic]

I never said, suggested or implied that it is. I am simply pointing out that you and Johann and "many" who come in Christ's Name, claim to know what the Apostles clearly didn't know, that you know what body the Faithful shall inherit.

I don't know what my body shall be and neither did Paul and John. And neither do you and Johann. But you have adopted the religious philosophy of someone who has transformed themselves into apostles of Christ. And as a result, believe that you know better than the real Apostles of Christ. I am sticking with the real Apostles.



But Paul and John didn't know what this Glory was. You and the disciples of the BBS claim you know, but if John didn't know, then you don't either.



I know you are Johann are not allowed to answer my questions, nevertheless, I will ask anyway.

When, in the 4 gospels which were eyewitnesses of Jesus, as HE walked the earth before HE was murdered and raised from the dead, did HE give HIS Spirit to another human being? Of course you will not answer. Nevertheless, it is a relevant question.



This is a carefully worded deception. The human body is flesh and blood and is corruptible. Jesus, before HE was changed, was flesh and blood and therefore was "corruptible". He learned obedience through the things HE suffered. He was Tempted in "ALL" ways as His Brethren, yet HE didn't let Sin reign in His Mortal body. The effort, dedication and Love and devotion for His Father, called Faith, brought Him victory over Sin and death. You preach to the world that HE was not born corruptible, that HE was fully God and therefore could not sin, could not be tempted and could not die.

This doctrine completely strips Him of His Honor and Glory and the reason's God said it was given to Him, and negates and demeans His Great effort and suffering HE endured for me as well as casts His Father as a respecter of persons who was in on the scam that Jesus was born with a silver spoon and wasn't flesh and blood as other mortal humans.

I know you are promoting a very seductive and popular religious philosophy, but as I have shown many times, the Holy Scriptures as a whole do not support this popular religious philosophy. And I will never agree with your religion that Jesus cheated to become the firstfruit of those who slept. But I know you have a mission, and nothing the scriptures actually say will detour you from carrying out your mission, which is to promote "YOUR" specific religion to grow your specific religious business. Nevertheless, it seems prudent to point these things out for those who might be reading along.




You are a servant of a religious system of this world that preaches God's Laws are an impossible to obey "Yoke of Bondage" that HE placed on the necks of men who trusted Him. Then you imply in your adopted popular religious philosophy that God lied to Abraham's children by telling them they could obey His Laws, then slaughtered them by the thousands when they didn't. (But not Caleb or Joshua or Zacharias or Simeon or Anna, who was able somehow to obey God's impossible to obey Yoke of Bondage) Then you preach this same God came to earth as "Fully God" to save mankind from the Laws of His former self that you preach are "Beggarly Elements of this world", and worthless Jewish Tradition's. So you create an image of God in the likeness of some random handsome long-haired men, who you preach came to earth to make void and irrelevant God's instruction in Righteousness that Paul said were trustworthy for doctrine, correction, reproof and instruction in righteousness, "That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

And you reject God's Judgments, and God's Feasts, while you cherish, and honor ancient Catholic high days created in worship of this image of God you have adopted. And you reject God's Sabbaths He said to remember, in order to support and promote ancient Catholic sabbaths created 350 years after Jesus ascended to His Father.

And now you want folks to believe that you know what body the Faithful will receive in the resurrection, that neither John, nor Paul nor the Prophets in the Holy Scriptures were allowed to know.

What if God is true, and it is your adopted religious sect that is the deceiver? It seems prudent to consider the possibility, given the "works" of modern religions and the warnings of the Jesus "of the Bible".

Projecting again as you reject the heart of the gospel the bodily Resurrection of Christ , a false gospel and christ. It’s the very spirit of antichrist as per John’s teaching in his epistles. 1 John 4:2-3, 2 John 1:7

 

[civic]

You keep repeating the word "Catholic" over and over again. I want you to be clear on which Church you're talking about. Is it the Roman Catholic Church? If so, there was no such thing during the Nicean or Calcedon Councils. Or are you talking about the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church? Let's give you the benefit of the doubt and say you meant the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

You preach to us not to blindly follow random people promoting the religious philosophies of the religious sects and businesses of this world and yet here you are promoting those who twist Scriptures to promote a certain religious philosophy popular in the religions of this world God placed us in.

Instead, let's do our own Bible study and see if there is any evidence of Sunday Worshipping in the NT. Sure there is. Apostle John was worshipping and came to be in the Spirit in the "Lord's Day" (Rev 1:10). The "Lord's Day" is a direct translation of κυριακῇ which is "Sunday" in the Greek Language. IOW, John was worshipping and came to be in the Spirit on Sunday (κυριακῇ).

Rev 1:10 ἐγενόμην ἐν πνεύματι ἐν τῇ κυριακῇ ἡμέρᾳ, καὶ ἤκουσα ὀπίσω μου φωνὴν μεγάλην ὡς σάλπιγγος

Rev_1:10 I came to be in the Spirit in the Lord's day and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

We can see who the wolves in sheep’s clothing are in this very thread.

 

[Johann]

Projecting again as you reject the heart of the gospel the bodily Resurrection of Christ , a false gospel and christ. It’s the very spirit of antichrist as per John’s teaching in his epistles. 1 John 4:2-3, 2 John 1:7

You sure about this @civic?

J.