Are we told to worship Jesus or are we told to worship God?
- Thread starter MatthewG
- Start date
Are you my mediator between me and God? Is it Yeshua? Are you some type of authority? Where do you get your authority from? I do not see the Bible personally as an authority figure in my life, but Yahava the one who adopts by faith… he is. Jesus is my Lord and King, and he did everything for all us.
Obadiah
Well-known member
Well it's in the Bible. It's that old honor your mother and father Thing verse that the Bible is clear about how we are to treat our parents. The fifth commandment says, “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you” (Exodus 20:12). This commandment, and the blessing attached to it, are repeated throughout the old and new testaments.
Also we are to respect church elders I'm sure you do that right? There's also a lot of great traditions that are made by men and also backed up by God. Like how we as men hold the door open for women and give them our seat on the bus. But God goes into even more detail.
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.
– Ephesians 5:21-28
civic
Well-known member
1-We see in Matthew 2:11 the Magi worships Jesus
2-We see in Matthew 8:2 that a leper worships Jesus
3-We see in Matthew 9:18 Jairus worships Jesus
4-We see in Matthew 15:25 that a woman worships Jesus
5-We see in Matthew 14:33 the disciples worship Jesus
6-We see in John 9:38 that a blind man worships Jesus
7-We see in Matthew 28:9 the women worship Jesus
8-We see in Matthew 28:17 all the disciples worship Jesus
9-We see in Revelation 4 all creation worships Jesus.
10-We see in Revelation 5 all creation worships Jesus
Was the Son worshiped? Or was He simply given obeisance as so many unitarians contend?
Matt 2:11 And going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh.
The verb used in the above text is προσεκύνησαν (prosekunesan) from προσκυνέω (proskuneo), rendered worshiped.
There are 65 verses that contain the word. I would encourage you to go here and examine each use. Lets take a look at few occurrences to see if in fact the NT authors really meant for the religious worship of the Son of God.
John 4:20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you say that in Jerusalem is the place where people ought to worship
Mat 14:33 And those in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”
Mat 28:9 And behold, Jesus met them and said, “Greetings!” And they came up and took hold of his feet and worshiped him.
Matt 28:17 And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted.
Acts 7:43 You took up the tent of Moloch, and the star of your god Rephan, the images that you made to worship; and I will send you into exile beyond Babylon
Rev 5:14 And the four living creatures said, “Amen!” and the elders fell down and worshiped.
Rev 7:11 And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God,
Rev 11:16 And the twenty-four elders who sit on their thrones before God fell on their faces and worshiped God,
Rev 13:4 And they worshiped the dragon, for he had given his authority to the beast, and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who can fight against it?”
Rev 19:4 And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God who was seated on the throne, saying, “Amen. Hallelujah!”
Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Is there any question that προσεκύνησαν means actual worship; the same kind of which belongs only to YHWH:
Mat 4:10 Then Jesus said to him, “Be gone, Satan! For it is written, “‘You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.’”
hope this helps !!!
2-We see in Matthew 8:2 that a leper worships Jesus
3-We see in Matthew 9:18 Jairus worships Jesus
4-We see in Matthew 15:25 that a woman worships Jesus
5-We see in Matthew 14:33 the disciples worship Jesus
6-We see in John 9:38 that a blind man worships Jesus
7-We see in Matthew 28:9 the women worship Jesus
8-We see in Matthew 28:17 all the disciples worship Jesus
9-We see in Revelation 4 all creation worships Jesus.
10-We see in Revelation 5 all creation worships Jesus
Was the Son worshiped? Or was He simply given obeisance as so many unitarians contend?
Matt 2:11 And going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh.
The verb used in the above text is προσεκύνησαν (prosekunesan) from προσκυνέω (proskuneo), rendered worshiped.
There are 65 verses that contain the word. I would encourage you to go here and examine each use. Lets take a look at few occurrences to see if in fact the NT authors really meant for the religious worship of the Son of God.
John 4:20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you say that in Jerusalem is the place where people ought to worship
Mat 14:33 And those in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”
Mat 28:9 And behold, Jesus met them and said, “Greetings!” And they came up and took hold of his feet and worshiped him.
Matt 28:17 And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted.
Acts 7:43 You took up the tent of Moloch, and the star of your god Rephan, the images that you made to worship; and I will send you into exile beyond Babylon
Rev 5:14 And the four living creatures said, “Amen!” and the elders fell down and worshiped.
Rev 7:11 And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God,
Rev 11:16 And the twenty-four elders who sit on their thrones before God fell on their faces and worshiped God,
Rev 13:4 And they worshiped the dragon, for he had given his authority to the beast, and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who can fight against it?”
Rev 19:4 And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God who was seated on the throne, saying, “Amen. Hallelujah!”
Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Is there any question that προσεκύνησαν means actual worship; the same kind of which belongs only to YHWH:
Mat 4:10 Then Jesus said to him, “Be gone, Satan! For it is written, “‘You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.’”
hope this helps !!!
I believe in respecting elders, however with Jesus and his victory today. No elder is my authority figure to set me on the right Path. My Father in heaven can do that by the spirit and following his son.
Now comes the ridiculousness of your excuses.
Is Jesus your Lord and God (John 20:28)?
I believe what Revelation 4 and 5 entail. I do not hold Jesus higher than his Father though. Jesus to me is now the Lord God Almighty.
civic
Well-known member
What about equal since they are both worshiped on the throne in heaven together ?
Phil 2:6- Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
@Fred
For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.
When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.
When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
The scripture above makes it clear, one is above the other. Now when it comes to Jesus and his expressed image yes it was equal. Jesus was the Word of God.
Here's the question I asked. Perhaps this time you can at least see it and then answer it:
Is Jesus your Lord and God (John 20:28)?
I dont believe in how the trinity people put it.
I believe that when Thomas touched Jesus, that from within, he knew he was the Word of God, and believed.
civic
Well-known member
Philippians 2:6
GOD'S WORD® Translation
Although he was in the form of God and equal with God, he did not take advantage of this equality.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
Although he was in the form of God and equal with God, he did not take advantage of this equality.
I don't care what you don't believe. I am asking what you DO believe.
Another dodge.
civic
Well-known member
And this one makes them EQUAL
Philippians 2:6
GOD'S WORD® Translation
Although he was in the form of God and equal with God, he did not take advantage of this equality.
And the good old King James agrees with me
King James Bible
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
And here
International Standard Version
In God's own form existed he, and shared with God equality, deemed nothing needed grasping.
Young's Literal Translation
who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal to God,
@civic,
No matter what, You still have this scripture to deal with, if its true or not is between you and your own preference.
For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.
When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
No matter what, You still have this scripture to deal with, if its true or not is between you and your own preference.
For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.
When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
Obadiah
Well-known member
Wow The Bible is not personally and authoritative figure in your life? The Living Word doesn't have any authority over you? Well that explains your stance on Jesus "the Living Word".
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:1
You might want to back that truck up.
If the Bible is our authority for faith and life, then the inspired words it contains will help us to avoid error. In a pluralistic world with many religious and non-religious ideas competing for attention, studying the Bible provides us with a firm foundation in God's truth rather than the errors of the world. Knowing the Bible also helps us respond to error and answer questions that skeptics and others may have about it.
I realize there are some people that do not want us to avoid error. They think they have the truth.
Its not a dodge its an explianation via context.
You just desire me to follow along with saying yes or not. Yes, Jesus was indeed the Lord by his flesh and God by being the very word of God, God with us.
You still have this to deal with.
For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.
When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
You may think what you want to. Im already satisifed with having faith and let Yahava govern my life, I am thankful for the Lord Yeshua who was also God with us.
