Are we told to worship Jesus or are we told to worship God?

"with the Father. . .with His Son" These phrases are grammatically parallel in PREPOSITION and DEFINITE ARTICLE. This syntax affirms the equality and deity of Jesus (cf. John 5:18; 10:33; 19:7). It is impossible to have the Father (High God) without the Son (Incarnate God) as the false teachers implied (cf. 1 John 2:23; 5:10-12).

This fellowship with the Father and the Son is very similar to the mutual "indwelling" passage of John 14:23.

Jesus Receives The Very Same Worship Given To God

In light of the foregoing NT teaching that Jesus is the Creator of all things, it is little wonder that we find the Lord Jesus saying the following:

"The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son, EVEN AS they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him." John 5:22-23

Notice that Jesus doesn’t say to honor him as one honors a prophet or one’s parents. Jesus very bluntly says that he must be honored in exactly the same way God is honored, i.e. Jesus is demanding the very worship due to God since the way one honors God is to worship him:


"‘Our fathers worshiped on this mountain; and you say that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.’ Jesus said to her, ‘Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for such the Father seeks to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.’" John 4:20-24

The inspired book of Revelation shows Jesus being honored in exactly the same way that God is. Notice, for instance, the way in which the inhabitants of heaven worship God:

"After this I looked, and lo, in heaven an open door! And the first voice, which I had heard speaking to me like a trumpet, said, ‘Come up hither, and I will show you what must take place after this.’ At once I was in the Spirit, and lo, a throne stood in heaven, with one seated on the throne! And he who sat there appeared like jasper and carnelian, and round the throne was a rainbow that looked like an emerald. Round the throne were twenty-four thrones, and seated on the thrones were twenty-four elders, clad in white garments, with golden crowns upon their heads. From the throne issue flashes of lightning, and voices and peals of thunder, and before the throne burn seven torches of fire, which are the seven spirits of God; and before the throne there is as it were a sea of glass, like crystal. And round the throne, on each side of the throne, are four living creatures, full of eyes in front and behind: the first living creature like a lion, the second living creature like an ox, the third living creature with the face of a man, and the fourth living creature like a flying eagle. And the four living creatures, each of them with six wings, are full of eyes all round and within, and day and night they never cease to sing, ‘Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come!’ And whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to him who is seated on the throne, who lives for ever and ever, the twenty-four elders fall down before him who is seated on the throne and worship him who lives for ever and ever; they cast their crowns before the throne, singing, ‘Worthy art thou, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for thou didst create all things, and by thy will they existed and were created.’" Revelation 4:1-11

The Old Testament says something similar:

"Thine, O LORD, is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty; for all that is in the heavens and in the earth is thine; thine is the kingdom, O LORD, and thou art exalted as head above all." 1 Chronicles 29:11

In the very next chapter of Revelation, John sees all creation giving the Lord Jesus the very same worship:

"And I saw in the right hand of him who was seated on the throne a scroll written within and on the back, sealed with seven seals; and I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, ‘Who is worthy to open the scroll and break its seals?’ And no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll or to look into it, and I wept much that no one was found worthy to open the scroll or to look into it. Then one of the elders said to me, ‘Weep not; lo, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered, so that he can open the scroll and its seven seals.’ And between the throne and the four living creatures and among the elders, I saw a Lamb standing, as though it had been slain, with seven horns and with seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth; and he went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who was seated on the throne. And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints; and they sang a new song, saying, ‘Worthy art thou to take the scroll and to open its seals, for thou wast slain and by thy blood didst ransom men for God from every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and hast made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on earth.’ Then I looked, and I heard around the throne and the living creatures and the elders the voice of many angels, numbering myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice, ‘Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing!’ And I heard EVERY CREATURE in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all therein, saying, ‘To him who sits upon the throne AND TO THE LAMB be blessing and honor and glory and might for ever and ever!’ And the four living creatures said, ‘Amen!’ and the elders fell down and worshiped." Revelation 5:1-14

John, here, sees that every creature worships not only God who sits on the throne, but also the Lamb, the Lord Jesus Christ! What makes this all the more amazing is that if every creature worships both God and the Lamb, then the Lamb cannot be a creature; otherwise he would be part of that very group of creation which worships God. Instead, John sees Jesus as being separate from all creation, existing in the very same category of being as God, indicating that John believed Christ is eternal.[1]

According to the OT, all the so-called gods and angels must worship God:

"Ascribe to the LORD, O heavenly beings, ascribe to the LORD glory and strength. Ascribe to the LORD the glory of his name; worship the LORD in holy array." Psalm 29:1-2

And:

"All worshipers of images are put to shame, who make their boast in worthless idols; all gods bow down before him." Psalm 97:7

"Let all that worship graven images be ashamed, who boast of their idols; worship him, all ye his angels." LXX

The inspired writer of Hebrews applies the above passage to the Lord Jesus:

"And again, when he brings the first-born into the world, he says, ‘Let ALL God's angels worship him.’" Hebrews 1:6

Thus, Jesus receives the same worship of the angels which the Old Testament says must be given to God!

The Hebrew Scriptures teach that God has ordained praise and strength from the mouth of infants.

"O LORD, our Lord, how majestic is thy name in all the earth! Thou whose glory above the heavens is chanted by the mouth of babes and infants, thou hast founded a bulwark because of thy foes, to still the enemy and the avenger." Psalm 8:1-2

"Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou perfected praise, because of thine enemies; that thou mightest put down the enemy and avenger." LXX

Amazingly, the Lord Jesus justifies the praise he received from children by quoting this very Psalm:

"But when the chief priests and the scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying out in the temple, ‘Hosanna to the Son of David!’ they were indignant; and they said to him, ‘Do you hear what these are saying?’ And Jesus said to them, ‘Yes; have you never read, "Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast brought perfect praise"?’" Matthew 21:15-16

The only way for this quotation from the Psalms to count as valid justification for Jesus not to forbid, but to confirm the praise of his own person, from those children is if he was equating himself with Yahweh God. Jesus is basically saying that to praise him is to praise Yahweh God!

Other references showing Christ as the Object of worship include[2]:

"Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the East came to Jerusalem, saying, ‘Where is he who has been born king of the Jews? For we have seen his star in the East, and have come to worship him.’ ... Then Herod summoned the wise men secretly and ascertained from them what time the star appeared; and he sent them to Bethlehem, saying, ‘Go and search diligently for the child, and when you have found him bring me word, that I too may come and worship him.’ ... When they saw the star, they rejoiced exceedingly with great joy; and going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh." Matthew 2:1-2, 7-8, 10-11

"And those in the boat worshiped him, saying, ‘Truly you are the Son of God.’" Matthew 14:33

"Then the mother of the sons of Zeb'edee came up to him, with her sons, and kneeling before him she asked him for something." Matthew 20:20

"And behold, Jesus met them and said, ‘Hail!’ And they came up and took hold of his feet and worshiped him... And when they saw him they worshiped him; but some doubted." Matthew 28:9, 17

"And whenever the unclean spirits beheld him, they fell down before him and cried out, ‘You are the Son of God.’" Mark 3:11

"And when he saw Jesus from afar, he ran and worshiped him; and crying out with a loud voice, he said, ‘What have you to do with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I adjure you by God, do not torment me.’ For he had said to him, ‘Come out of the man, you unclean spirit!’" Mark 5:6-8

"Then came one of the rulers of the synagogue, Ja'irus by name; and seeing him, he fell at his feet, ... But the woman, knowing what had been done to her, came in fear and trembling and fell down before him, and told him the whole truth." Mark 5:22, 33

"But immediately a woman, whose little daughter was possessed by an unclean spirit, heard of him, and came and fell down at his feet." Mark 7:25

"But when Simon Peter saw it, he fell down at Jesus' knees, saying, ‘Depart from me, for I am a sinful man, O Lord.’ ... While he was in one of the cities, there came a man full of leprosy; and when he saw Jesus, he fell on his face and besought him, ‘Lord, if you will, you can make me clean.’" Luke 5:8, 12

"Jesus heard that they had cast him out, and having found him he said, ‘Do you believe in the Son of man?’ He answered, ‘And who is he, sir, that I may believe in him?’ Jesus said to him, ‘You have seen him, and it is he who speaks to you.’ He said, ‘Lord, I believe’; and he worshiped him." John 9:35-38

"Then Mary, when she came where Jesus was and saw him, fell at his feet, saying to him, ‘Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died.’" John 11:32

"Now Thomas, one of the twelve, called the Twin, was not with them when Jesus came. So the other disciples told him, ‘We have seen the Lord.’ But he said to them, ‘Unless I see in his hands the print of the nails, and place my finger in the mark of the nails, and place my hand in his side, I will not believe.’ Eight days later, his disciples were again in the house, and Thomas was with them. The doors were shut, but Jesus came and stood among them, and said, ‘Peace be with you.’ Then he said to Thomas, ‘Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side; do not be faithless, but believing.’ Thomas answered him, ‘My Lord and my God!’ Jesus said to him, ‘Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe.’ Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in his name. John 20:24-31

Another indication that Jesus is worshiped as God is that Christ is to be revered and loved unconditionally:

"Be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ." Ephesians 5:21

"and be subject to one another in the fear of Christ." NASB

"He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and he who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for my sake will find it." Matthew 10:37-39
I proof read everything BEFORE I post @MatthewG-Jesus Christ is worthy of our highest eulogies-now and forever!
Shalom
J.
 
I still stand on what I have posted, @civic, @Johann.

The worship belongs to the Father, and our fellowship is with the Father and the Son.

If that bothers anyone, it shouldn't. You're personal relationship is your own, right? The bible expresses, what is expressed in my second sentence, so I accept that as enough for me.
 
Jesus is the Alpha and Omega, the Lord God Almighty !

These passages in Revelation make it clear that Jesus is God. Remember it is Jesus in the NT who is Coming back to earth that every eye will see. It was Jesus who was pierced on the cross for our sins. John is clearly once again calling Jesus God!!!!!!! The Coming and the coming in the clouds never refers to the Father in the NT but always to Jesus.

Revelation 1:7-8
7 BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.
8 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

We know from Revelation 1:8 that Alpha and Omega is the Almighty. So we can see that Christ is the Almighty

Revelation 1:17

17And when I saw Him, I fell at his feet as dead. And He laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I Am the first and the last:

We know from Revelation 1:17-18 that the first and the last is He that lives, was dead but is alive forevermore is Christ.

Revelation 2:8

"To the angel of the church in Smyrna write: These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again.


Revelation 22:12-13
12 "Behold, I Am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. 13 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

We know from Revelation 22:13 that the first and the last is the Alpha and Omega.

Revelation 22:16,20

16 "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star."
20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I Am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

The immediate text clearly tells us that it was Jesus who was pierced and who is Coming in the clouds. This person coming in the clouds is God(Jesus-the Son of Man),

Daniel 7:13-14

And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
14 "And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.


Matthew 24:30-31
30 "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.

Matthew 26:64
Jesus said to him, "You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN."

1 Thessalonians 4:17-18
Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Revelation 1:7-8
7 BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.
8 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

So we can see that the One who comes/is coming in the NT always refers to Jesus the Son of Man and NEVER refers to the Father. Therefore we can conclude it is Jesus who is coming whom John calls God the Alpha and Omega. This is sound biblical exegesis based on the context of the passage as well as the principle established in both Testaments on the One who is Coming in/with the Clouds- The Son of Man not the Father !!!!!!


Isaiah 44:6
Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
'I am the first and I am the last,
And there is no God besides Me.

Isaiah 48:12
"Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel whom I called;
I am He, I am the first, I am also the last.

conclusion: The One who in Isaiah is the Lord, the I Am- the First and the Last is the same One in Revelation who is the First and the Last and besides Him ( YHWH ) there is no other God ( Is 48:12 ) This One is the Almighty God, the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End, the One who is Coming in the Clouds that is identified as the Son of Man- Jesus Christ.

hope this helps !!!
 
Jesus is God. How do I know? The Bible tells me so. Jesus had the authority to forgive sin. Matthew 9:3. Only God can forgive sin.

Also Paul testifies to the deity of Jesus Christ by identifying Him as our great God and Savior.

Awaiting and looking for the [fulfillment, the realization of our] blessed hope, even the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Christ Jesus (the Messiah, the Anointed One),
Titus 2:13
God the Father says regarding Jesus, “Your throne, O God will last forever and ever” Hebrews 1:8
The most important evidence for the deity of Jesus Christ is His resurrection (Rom. 1:4). The resurrection sets Jesus apart from all other religious leaders and unquestionably shows Him to be God.

Within the one Being that is God, there exists eternally three coequal and coeternal persons, namely, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. We as Christians are able to worship all three members of the trinity.

Jesus that's my king. Celebrate Jesus. Worship him with your whole heart.
 
I still stand on what I have posted, @civic, @Johann.

The worship belongs to the Father, and our fellowship is with the Father and the Son.

If that bothers anyone, it shouldn't. You're personal relationship is your own, right? The bible expresses, what is expressed in my second sentence, so I accept that as enough for me.
I am not here to force or coerce you brother-just go by what stands written-Perfect Tense.
Shalom
J.
 
I still stand on what I have posted, @civic, @Johann.

The worship belongs to the Father, and our fellowship is with the Father and the Son.

If that bothers anyone, it shouldn't. You're personal relationship is your own, right? The bible expresses, what is expressed in my second sentence, so I accept that as enough for me.
You are quoting a single verse and isolating it from its context. I have walked us through the book of Revelation in my past 2 posts and identified the One who is called the Almighty God, the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the One who is Coming in the Clouds that is always identified as the Son and not once ever identified as the Father.

I have used exegesis to prove the Lord God Almighty, First and the Last the Alpha and Omega is the Son-not the Father.

hope this helps !!!
 
@civic, @Johann, @Azriel, @Frank.

I do believe that Jesus was the expressed image of God, and that the very Word of God was in the body of Christ Jesus, and that Jesus was also named Immanuel, "God among us," However he was not just God by the sake of his Flesh. That is why you have the Deity of Christ expressed through the narrative, however you also have the fleshly side also in the narrative of the Gospel.

Jesus said to pray to his Father.
Jesus in the end does move from being at the right hand of the Father to sitting on the throne with his Father becoming the Lord God Almighty, I do believe Jesus deserves praise, so does his Father.

God is to be worshiped, however, do you guys even express his name in your life? For me God's personal name is Yahava, or some say Yahweh.

I believe that our worship is to be towards Yahava, our Father, who adopted us into the Kingdom because of his Son. Yes, our Fellowship is with the Father and the Son, but if you are missing these (especially not even knowing my own predicated beliefs.)

The Father is the one whom is to worshiped, to pray to Him, in JEsus name but if you personally pray to Jesus and in Jesus name and all that, that is all between you and your maker, I am just sharing.

I am not worried if people think I am wrong, or whatever (Cause personally it doesn't matter between me and you and the relationship held with Yahava in personal life.)
 
@civic, @Johann, @Azriel, @Frank.

I do believe that Jesus was the expressed image of God, and that the very Word of God was in the body of Christ Jesus, and that Jesus was also named Immanuel, "God among us," However he was not just God by the sake of his Flesh. That is why you have the Deity of Christ expressed through the narrative, however you also have the fleshly side also in the narrative of the Gospel.

Jesus said to pray to his Father.
Jesus in the end does move from being at the right hand of the Father to sitting on the throne with his Father becoming the Lord God Almighty, I do believe Jesus deserves praise, so does his Father.

God is to be worshiped, however, do you guys even express his name in your life? For me God's personal name is Yahava, or some say Yahweh.

I believe that our worship is to be towards Yahava, our Father, who adopted us into the Kingdom because of his Son. Yes, our Fellowship is with the Father and the Son, but if you are missing these (especially not even knowing my own predicated beliefs.)

The Father is the one whom is to worshiped, to pray to Him, in JEsus name but if you personally pray to Jesus and in Jesus name and all that, that is all between you and your maker, I am just sharing.

I am not worried if people think I am wrong, or whatever (Cause personally it doesn't matter between me and you and the relationship held with Yahava in personal life.)
The Son is identified as YHWH in many places including the book of Revelation that quotes Isaiah regarding the First and the Last. And the Son is Worshiped in Revelation 5 and 22. Only God is worshiped in heaven. So Jesus must be God or the Father is allowing Idolatry in heaven on His throne.

hope this helps !!!
 
@civic, @Johann, @Azriel, @Frank.

I do believe that Jesus was the expressed image of God, and that the very Word of God was in the body of Christ Jesus, and that Jesus was also named Immanuel, "God among us," However he was not just God by the sake of his Flesh. That is why you have the Deity of Christ expressed through the narrative, however you also have the fleshly side also in the narrative of the Gospel.

Jesus said to pray to his Father.
Jesus in the end does move from being at the right hand of the Father to sitting on the throne with his Father becoming the Lord God Almighty, I do believe Jesus deserves praise, so does his Father.

God is to be worshiped, however, do you guys even express his name in your life? For me God's personal name is Yahava, or some say Yahweh.

I believe that our worship is to be towards Yahava, our Father, who adopted us into the Kingdom because of his Son. Yes, our Fellowship is with the Father and the Son, but if you are missing these (especially not even knowing my own predicated beliefs.)

The Father is the one whom is to worshiped, to pray to Him, in JEsus name but if you personally pray to Jesus and in Jesus name and all that, that is all between you and your maker, I am just sharing.

I am not worried if people think I am wrong, or whatever (Cause personally it doesn't matter between me and you and the relationship held with Yahava in personal life.)
No it's great I'm glad you're sharing that's what this form is all about. I read your signature and just wanted to let you know that we love you and we're glad you're here and we're glad that you're sharing Your beliefs with us. It's all good in the Jesus hood.
 
Your belief contradicts the Bible.
No, his belief most certainly does NOT contradict the Bible. His belief contradicts your belief.

There is no Bible verse that states Jesus is God and we are to worship him as God. In fact, there are Bible verses that contradict your blasphemy.
 
Cool guys, thank you for sharing all you have.

I hate to be so dismissive, I am a horrible person. You all have a great day. (I can call myself openly a horrible person before Yahava, so no need to validate that I am not, :p) Thanks @Azriel all the best.
 
No, his belief most certainly does NOT contradict the Bible. His belief contradicts your belief.

There is no Bible verse that states Jesus is God and we are to worship him as God. In fact, there are Bible verses that contradict your blasphemy.
Read post 19 and 25 where I back up my claim with scripture and exegesis not just a false presupposition as you have just done. :)

My 2 posts are irrefutable. I have yet to ever see any unitarian that will engage those posts and refute them from the context of Revelation.

hope this helps !!!
 
Alright gotta go see you guys, @Wrangler, thank you for chiming it. I disagree with the whole trinity thing,

Jesus never said he came from himself.

James 16:28 I came from the Father and entered the world; now I am leaving the world and going back to the Father.”
 
dont let it get you all riled up guys.

Just all you can do is share and go on about ones life.
No I don't get riled up lol. I use to but not anymore. :)

I know you remember the way I use to treat some people on the other forum that I would disagree with when I was a calvinist. I was not very nice to you and would get personal. I'm not like that anymore praise the Lord. :)
 
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