󠅤 The Lord sent Jesus Christ

God and Jesus aren't the same person in Revelation 1:4-8. Him which is, and which was, and which is to come AND from Jesus Christ? Hello?

Rev. 1
4John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; 5And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 7Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

8I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Which doesn't prove Jesus isn't the Almighty.
 
The below passage says the Lord sent Jesus.

My questions are simple. Since Jesus is Lord and the Lord sent Jesus then do you agree that the Father is the Lord? Is there one Lord, two Lords, and can there be two Lords who co-exist without being the same Lord? Anyone here believe there is a hierarchy?

Acts 3 (KJV)
19Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
The word Lord is [Strongs G2962: Kyrios] which means ...

G2962: κύριος, κυρίου, ὁ (properly, an adjective κύριος, κυρία, κύριον, also of two term.; properly equivalent to ὁ ἔχων κῦρος, having power or authority) (from Pindar down), he to whom a person or thing belongs, about which he has the power of deciding; master, lord

Therefore, within the context of the verses quoted, the author is making the point that GOD (the Father) had the authority to send Jesus the Christ (Messiah or Anointed) ... or looking at it the other way around, that Jesus the Christ came in the full authority of God the Father who sent Him. Luke was NOT denying the deity of Christ after recording the Virgin Birth in his gospel and traveling with Paul (and hearing about Damascus).
 
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God and Jesus aren't the same person in Revelation 1:4-8. Him which is, and which was, and which is to come AND from Jesus Christ? Hello?

Rev. 1
4John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; 5And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 7Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Using the logic you are insisting on, doesn't this also mean that Jesus Christ is not the same person as ...
  • the first begotten of the dead
  • prince of the kings of the earth
"I do not think that means what you think it means." - Inigo Montoya
 
The below passage says the Lord sent Jesus.

My questions are simple. Since Jesus is Lord and the Lord sent Jesus then do you agree that the Father is the Lord? Is there one Lord, two Lords, and can there be two Lords who co-exist without being the same Lord? Anyone here believe there is a hierarchy?

Acts 3 (KJV)
19Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:


John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.


John 1:14
14
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory


These verses in John’s prologue reveal the pre-existence of the Eternal Word/Son who was God and became flesh. He was the Creator of all things. Nothing came into existence apart from Him. He is before everything that has a beginning.



John 1:15
15
John bore witness of Him, and cried out, saying, "This was He of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'"


John 1:30
"This is He on behalf of whom I said, 'After me comes a Man who has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'


John the Baptist was 6 months older than Jesus Christ. So it is impossible for Christ to be before him unless Jesus pre-existed.



John 3:13
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven — the Son of Man.


Once again we see the pre-existence of the Son and where He declares that He came from heaven to earth.



John 3:17
"For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him.


This verse shows the Son was sent from heaven by the Father to the earth.



John 6:38
For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.



Human beings come into existence when they are born into this world, but we surely do not come from Heaven.



John 8:23

"You are from beneath I Am from above, you are of this world I Am not of this world"


John 8:58
Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I Am."


Here we see that Jesus lets the Pharisees know that He existed as a person before Abraham was born. Once again we see Jesus claiming to be the Eternal God.


John 16:28
I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.


John 17:5

And now, Father, glorify Me(your Son in verse 2) in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.


Here we see the Son declared that He shared the same Glory together with the Father prior to creation. This passage makes Him equal with the Father as the Eternal God.



John 17:24

"Father, I desire that they also, whom Thou hast given Me, be with Me where I am, in order that they may behold My glory, which Thou hast given Me; for Thou didst love Me before the foundation of the world.

Below we read it was the Son who already existed as the Son which the Father sent into the world.


John 3:16-17

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him.


1 Corinthians 15:47 The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven.

Galatians 4:4
But when the fulness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,

1 John 4:14
And we have beheld and bear witness that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

In 1 John 3:8 we see that the Son of Gods appearance or manifestation was for this very purpose, that He might destroy the works of the devil. The verb φανερόω means to make manifest, appeared, to make visible or to bring to light something that was previously hidden. This clearly means that Jesus had already existed as the Son of God and He was made manifest or visible to us.

Now we also know from Johns writings that those who deny Jesus came in the flesh are the spirit of antichrist. Those who deny God became flesh and dwelt among us are deceivers. The Incarnation was permanent as we read in 2 John 7- Jesus has come in the flesh. A past action with present results.

Colossians 1:13-18
For He delivered us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. 15 And He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities — all things have been created by Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

Hebrews 1:2-3
in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power.

Hebrews 1:8
But of the Son He says,

"Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever,


Hebrews 5:7-8

In the days of His flesh, He offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety. 8 Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered.


The question is who or what was He before the days of His flesh? It is obvious that He pre existed before His birth(days of His flesh) as the Son.


conclusion:
The Father sent the Son into this world and we know this as the Incarnation. Meaning God became flesh( a man). Since the Son is God, the 2nd Person of the Trinity scripture calls the Son- God manifest in the flesh. The OP is a major failure.

hope this helps !!!
 
Using the logic you are insisting on, doesn't this also mean that Jesus Christ is not the same person as ...
  • the first begotten of the dead
  • prince of the kings of the earth
"I do not think that means what you think it means." - Inigo Montoya
Running man cannot understand God in three persons, anymore then I would be cerdtain he does not understand that he and his wife are one flesh, even though he is the head over her. (Gen 2:24, Eph 5:31, Eph 5: 23)

Each with, if I might simplify this, their own "job" so it were.
 
The below passage says the Lord sent Jesus.

My questions are simple. Since Jesus is Lord and the Lord sent Jesus then do you agree that the Father is the Lord? Is there one Lord, two Lords, and can there be two Lords who co-exist without being the same Lord? Anyone here believe there is a hierarchy?

Acts 3 (KJV)
19Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Let me introduce you to Deut 6:4 The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
As you have duly noted Jesus is Lord and God is Lord. Since there are not two separate lords, they are One. This may not be the math you learned in grade school but this is because God is not a creature.
 
I believe there is only One God, manifest as three "only" according to each work in the redemption of God's elect.

God is a Spirit, always has been, always will be, that will never change. No one has ever seen God, impossible!

1st Timothy 6:16​

“Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.”

Jesus Christ in the express image of the invisible God, when we shall see Jesus, then shall the saying be fulfilled.....we shall see God.

Matthew 5:8​

“Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.”

So, Jesus Christ is God, but God is not Jesus Christ.


You are deceived and trying to deceive God's children, but you will never be able to do so!

John said: "washed us from our own sins in his blood".....Acts 20:28 said:

"Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he (God) hath purchased with his own blood."

The church of God, purchased with the blood of Christ, whom Luke connect this to God purchasing the church~along with Revelation 1:5 that clearly said that Christ washed us from our sins in his own blood, thus making Christ ONE with his Father.

The one that is yet to come where every eye shall see him, is the Almighty God. So said Paul:

Titus 2:13​

“Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.”
I don't completely agree with all of the interpretations you've provided, but I understand why you believe what you do. I don't believe in the Trinity because I take a more strict, literal, and less theological/philosophical approach to what the Bible says. As you already saw, 1 Cor. 8:6 does indeed explicitly say that there is one God, the Father. So that's what I believe. That's why I am a Unitarian. I can point at the Bible and say "Look, God is one person." While on the other hand, God is never described as 3, or three in one, or a compound god, or something like that.

We can talk shop about theology, doctrines, and interpretations all day, but I am always going to understand the Bible around explicit statements like John 17:3, Ephesians 4:6, 1 Cor. 8:6, etc. So why do you not believe the Father is the only true God?
 
What a heretical statement.
It isn't a heretical statement. Scripture is clear that God is a distinct Lord from Jesus. They are Lords over different areas. The kingdom of heaven is best described as a hierarchy.

That's actually why I opened this OP. I have something very important to show you all and I hope you all will remain open to what the Bible says.

Acts 3 (KJV)
19Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Only if you promise to not post there.

1 Corinthians 15:28 as usual is not promoting the meaning you hope for.

28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.

Oneness... clear as a bell.
I will post here as long as this topic is allowed.

Are you Oneness? I was under the impression you believe in Trinitarianism.
 
Which doesn't prove Jesus isn't the Almighty.
The Almighty and Jesus Christ are beside each other in the same context as two distinct persons. Yes that proves Jesus is not the Almighty. He is never called such in the Bible. Here's another example.

Revelation 21
22And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
 
Put the lasso around yourself and then tell yourself not ask questions to others which you feel are not related to the OP.

Simple
So the best way to keep the tread on topic is to basically just ignore you. I really don't like doing that, but I will occasionally do it temporarily.
 
The word Lord is [Strongs G2962: Kyrios] which means ...

G2962: κύριος, κυρίου, ὁ (properly, an adjective κύριος, κυρία, κύριον, also of two term.; properly equivalent to ὁ ἔχων κῦρος, having power or authority) (from Pindar down), he to whom a person or thing belongs, about which he has the power of deciding; master, lord

Therefore, within the context of the verses quoted, the author is making the point that GOD (the Father) had the authority to send Jesus the Christ (Messiah or Anointed) ... or looking at it the other way around, that Jesus the Christ came in the full authority of God the Father who sent Him. Luke was NOT denying the deity of Christ after recording the Virgin Birth in his gospel and traveling with Paul (and hearing about Damascus).
So would you say the Father and Jesus are the same Lord or different Lords as they are different persons?
 
Using the logic you are insisting on, doesn't this also mean that Jesus Christ is not the same person as ...
  • the first begotten of the dead
  • prince of the kings of the earth
"I do not think that means what you think it means." - Inigo Montoya
Yes "him which is, and which was, and which is to come" in Rev. 1:4 is distinct from Jesus in verse 5. In verse 8, "him which is, and which was, and which is to come" is the one who is called the Almighty. The Almighty and Jesus aren't the same person grammatically.
 
The below passage says the Lord sent Jesus.

My questions are simple. Since Jesus is Lord and the Lord sent Jesus then do you agree that the Father is the Lord? Is there one Lord, two Lords, and can there be two Lords who co-exist without being the same Lord? Anyone here believe there is a hierarchy?

Acts 3 (KJV)
19Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
May I have the verse that says the Lord sent Jesus.
 
It isn't a heretical statement. Scripture is clear that God is a distinct Lord from Jesus. They are Lords over different areas. The kingdom of heaven is best described as a hierarchy.

That's actually why I opened this OP. I have something very important to show you all and I hope you all will remain open to what the Bible says.

Acts 3 (KJV)
19Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

I will post here as long as this topic is allowed.

Are you Oneness? I was under the impression you believe in Trinitarianism.
As I wrote..."so that God may be all in all." ... meaning, The Son, The Holy Spirit as well as Himself.

I am not oneness in that there is only one entity that makes up God in the Godhead. The Godhead is one.
There are only 3 in the Godhead. (Like you and your wife are one flesh. You are the head over her. If you send her to the store or the bank, while she is gone, you are still one flesh...... That is biblical. If we meet I would not know if you had another... but it is certain that if I met her in the grocery and she said she was Mrs. Runningman, I would know you are one....... and hands off, if I can be so blunt.

I am Trinitarian .

But since you are not, please answer the following . I believe YOU said the Spirit and the Father are one?????

It suggests in both Mathew and Luke that the Holy Spirit will impregnate Mary. (Not in those words but that is the meaning)

I'm just curious as to how you feel this all could have worked.

If the Father and Spirit are one....................... DID THE FATHER COME DOWN TO EARTH TO DO IT? If not, how, being one, could it have happened?

And if YOU do not believe the Father and Holy Spirit are one, but just God and Spirit so that the Father sent the Holy Spirit to earth . Would that not make the son Jesus God's adopted Son?

Last scenario.... Mary fell asleep and was translated to heaven where ... well, you know.
 
So would you say the Father and Jesus are the same Lord or different Lords as they are different persons?
That would depend on the definition of "person". Neither is a person as I am a person (born to a man and woman by the merging of a sperm and egg to share the DNA from two humans who were created in the same manner).

I would say they are different Lords but the same LORD (about the best I can do in English) ... Different in Authority, one in DEITY.
 
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