I am staying on topic. In post 18 you said I was denying who Jesus said he is.
John 14:14 refutes your false assertion.
󠅤 The Lord sent Jesus Christ
- Thread starter Runningman
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I am staying on topic. In post 18 you said I was denying who Jesus said he is.
John 14:14 refutes your false assertion.
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
You cannot get pregnant. This is because of what you are. Your wife can get pregnant. This is because of what she is.
In the a analogy of submission, Paul says that Christ is the head of the husband. You are a husband. Do you believe that the difference between Christ and you is only one of function? Or is Christ’s function different from your function because of What Christ is?
Could you exchange functions with Christ? No.
Could God and Christ exchange functions? No.
Paul says that God is the head of Christ. Why is this? Because of What God is.
You cannot save Christ and you cannot get pregnant. Function is determined by being.
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
Certainly. She is a person and you are a person… and yet pregnancy will never be a matter of “taking roles”. You and your wife will never sit, discuss and agree on who will deliver your next baby.
Furthermore, God is a person and you are a person. God has his own mind and will, and so you do. Will you ever be God?
Humans were created in the image of God and are called children of God and even gods. Is our difference with God a matter of function or a matter of being?
Function is determined by being.
It is not a matter of coincidence, or agreement, that Jesus submits to God. It is a matter of being.
Jesús is a Mediator between you and God precisely because Jesus cannot be you and Jesus cannot be God.
Now you understand why He is a proper recipient of your prayer tonight.
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No, because I am not the proper recipient of prayer.
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
You are not God because God is your head. He has authority over you.
By the same time, Christ is not God because God is his head. God has authority over him.
God, in contrast, has no head ruling him.
In conclusión, you have been refuted and shown that the difference between Jesus and God is that of being. Not only function, because being determines function.
You have been refuted on 25-January-2025. 9:42 PM Mexico’s Central time.
By His being.
The same cannot be said about my wife even though I am her head, because I am not ontologically superior to her.
"How then doth David in spirit call him Lord,"~ Because in Jesus' deity he is the I AM THAT I AM! The Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the ending of all things.
Revelation 1:8
“I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.”Only according to Jesus' humanity.
1 Corinthians 15:28
“And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.”God is a Spirit, always has been, always will be, that can never change. God was manifest in the flesh, when he joined Himself to the tabernacle of his only begotten Son. He never ceased to be who he is......... A Spirit that lives in eternity.
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Matthew 22:44~The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Our Lord’s point was simple – if Christ is David’s son, why does David call him, Lord?
All the Pharisees could see was Christ the son of David, but David saw much more. David, the father of Christ, called his coming son, Lord, which fathers would not do. The use of Lord here, written in small letters, Hebrew Adonai, means master, ruler. This Lord, this master and ruler, was addressed by Jehovah, LORD in capital letters. David inserted himself by the singular my – inspired witness of God charging Christ. No father would ever do this – call a son master and ruler – so s truth is to be learned from these words of Jesus.
David, under inspiration, declared the coming Christ to be his Adonai – master, ruler. Hallelujah! We know the fact by the gospel, and Jesus used the Jewish Bible to Jews. Do you appreciate the few words so far to expose the Jews’ ignorance of their Christ?
Revel in the pronouns in this single verse – my, thou, my, I, thine, and Hallelujah!
Matthew 22:45~ If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
Jesus stated the bottom line – the conclusion – confronting the Jews with their Bible.
If inspired David said Messiah was his master and ruler, how is he his son as you said? Their infatuation with Messiah as conqueror like David had caused them to miss it. Jesus here exposed their ignorance of their own Messiah – that Christ was also God. He had declared this to them in various ways that caused them to hate him viciously. Here he proved the point by their own Bible where they knew Christ was the object.
Jesus had declared His full deity directly at other times (John 5:23; 8:58; 10:30; etc.). And if they had read their Old Testament, they would have found it there (Is 7:14; 9:6).
It is the glorious, opening axiom of the great mystery of godliness (I Tim 3:16). God was manifest in the flesh, as the Word of God became incarnate (John 1:1,14). Modern Bibles, like the Pharisees, get rid of the God axiom by He, Who, Jesus, Think! Jesus was not manifest in flesh, like the NIRV and NLT say. Jesus is flesh. The Word was manifest in flesh (Jn 1:14); before flesh Jesus did not exist (Lu 1:35). He proved Messiah was much more than David’s son by the word lord (Ps 110:1).
Our Lord’s point was simple – if Christ is David’s son, why does David call him, Lord?
All the Pharisees could see was Christ the son of David, but David saw much more. David, the father of Christ, called his coming son, Lord, which fathers would not do. The use of Lord here, written in small letters, Hebrew Adonai, means master, ruler. This Lord, this master and ruler, was addressed by Jehovah, LORD in capital letters. David inserted himself by the singular my – inspired witness of God charging Christ. No father would ever do this – call a son master and ruler – so s truth is to be learned from these words of Jesus.
David, under inspiration, declared the coming Christ to be his Adonai – master, ruler. Hallelujah! We know the fact by the gospel, and Jesus used the Jewish Bible to Jews. Do you appreciate the few words so far to expose the Jews’ ignorance of their Christ?
Revel in the pronouns in this single verse – my, thou, my, I, thine, and Hallelujah!
- My … said unto my Lord. This is inspired David inserting himself as subject to Christ.
- Thou … sit thou. This is the LORD God Jehovah promising heavenly glory to Christ.
- My … my right hand. This is the LORD Jehovah promising Christ’s heavenly throne.
- I … till I make. This is the LORD God Jehovah promising to give Christ the victory.
- Thine … thine enemies. This is LORD Jehovah promising to crush Christ’s enemies.
- Thy … thy footstool. This is the LORD God Jehovah promising Christ total authority.
Matthew 22:45~ If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
Jesus stated the bottom line – the conclusion – confronting the Jews with their Bible.
If inspired David said Messiah was his master and ruler, how is he his son as you said? Their infatuation with Messiah as conqueror like David had caused them to miss it. Jesus here exposed their ignorance of their own Messiah – that Christ was also God. He had declared this to them in various ways that caused them to hate him viciously. Here he proved the point by their own Bible where they knew Christ was the object.
Jesus had declared His full deity directly at other times (John 5:23; 8:58; 10:30; etc.). And if they had read their Old Testament, they would have found it there (Is 7:14; 9:6).
It is the glorious, opening axiom of the great mystery of godliness (I Tim 3:16). God was manifest in the flesh, as the Word of God became incarnate (John 1:1,14). Modern Bibles, like the Pharisees, get rid of the God axiom by He, Who, Jesus, Think! Jesus was not manifest in flesh, like the NIRV and NLT say. Jesus is flesh. The Word was manifest in flesh (Jn 1:14); before flesh Jesus did not exist (Lu 1:35). He proved Messiah was much more than David’s son by the word lord (Ps 110:1).
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
Any lord that is subject to another lord can’t be God, by definition.
So King David, a lord on his own right, cannot be God, if he foresees himself subject to the Messiah coming from his seed.
And the Messiah cannot be God because he is subject to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
By definition, God does not need to receive authority from anyone else, and does not need the help from anyone else to put the enemies under his feet. God is not sent, is not appointed nor anointed bySomeone else. God is not the spokesman or the executor of anyone else.
So, by definition, the “Anointed by God” cannot be God. The Jews were right, and you are not, my friend
Fallacy non-sequitur. From the fact that Jesus was the true Messiah (Anointed by God) does not follow that the Anointed by God was God.
Indeed, the existence of the Anointed presupposes the separate existence of He who anoints him (God).
No. He did not. He did not do it in the quoted verses and there is no “etcetera”.
In contrast, Jesus constantly presented his credentials as Messiah, Sent by God… and He called the Father his God.
He presented Himself as not having come on his own authority, and as speaking and doing what the Father asked him to do. He presented Himself as an Ambassador, Representative or Messenger of God. As a Son of God, who deserved to be listened to, believed, loved and followed just as we should treat the son of a king who is sent to us on behalf of his father.
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Greetings Pancho,
I may not finish since I ahve a meeting coming very soon, but we can always finish later, so bear with me.
This is very true, if one only embraces Christ's humanity, yet the scriptures reveals the coming Messiah was more than just a man, his going forth has been from everlasting and will be to everlasting! Have you never read so much as this with understanding:
Micah 5:2
“But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.”Pancho, his humanity/or, his sonship has not been from everlasting, but his deity as the Mighty God has been from everlasting. This is the testimony of the holy scriptures.
Again, Christ was a complex person with two distinct natures ~ one flesh and blood, the Son of Man, the other, the Son of God, making him equal to God, in his deity by being the only begotten Son of God, which even the Pharisees understood this truth.
He did this by saying: "I and my Father are one"
Pancho, you are not rightly dividing the word of truth. God was the Father of Jesus Christ as far as his humanity goes, and as such, he summited himself to God, even unto the death of the cross. The truth of the scriptures is this: Jesus Christ is God, yet God was not Jesus Christ.
1st Timothy 3:16
“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”This is true only in this sense: The Word that was in the beginning, was God, period....yet This Eternal God begot a Son in the womb of a virgin named Mary~Mary gave birth NOT to God, but to God's Son, who was in the bosom of the Father from everlasting, yet when God joined himself to the tabernacle of His Son, then can it truly be said that God was manifest in the flesh.
When Jesus was born into this world, the angels saw God for the first time in the person of Jesus, God's only begotten Son.
The only way we can understand so many scriptures concerning the Godhead, is to keep the complex natures of Christ separated from his deity, and interpret scriptures accordingly.
Pancho applies a philosophical concept of God rather than something revealed from scripture. How does Pancho know what God can do except by seeing what God has done? It is only by Pancho's denial that God can come incarnate that Pancho claims that God has not done this in Christ. When Pancho speaks of such limitations, his only experience is of that as a human. He is not in position to tell God what God can and cannot do.
Runningman
Well-known member
No don't change the topic away from what the OP is. There is already a thread where praying to Jesus has been debunked. Please take that there.
Runningman
Well-known member
Lord God Almighty and the various other lords like Jesus aren't the same person. There are many lords and gods, but there is only One God, the Father, for us Christains.
1 Corinthians 8
5For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 6But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
The Almighty in Revelation 1:8 isn't Jesus. Read Rev. 1:4-8 and you'll see it.
If the Trinity were true, 1 Corinthians 15:28 is clear that there is a division in it. This verse is a powerful argument against the Trinity. Well-worth its own thread.
Then don't change the topic either by asking me questions that are not related to it.
Runningman
Well-known member
God and Jesus aren't the same person in Revelation 1:4-8. Him which is, and which was, and which is to come AND from Jesus Christ? Hello?
Rev. 1
4John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; 5And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 7Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
8I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Runningman
Well-known member
I've been continually trying to lasso you back to the OP.
I believe there is only One God, manifest as three "only" according to each work in the redemption of God's elect.
God is a Spirit, always has been, always will be, that will never change. No one has ever seen God, impossible!
1st Timothy 6:16
“Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.”Jesus Christ in the express image of the invisible God, when we shall see Jesus, then shall the saying be fulfilled.....we shall see God.
Matthew 5:8
“Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.”So, Jesus Christ is God, but God is not Jesus Christ.
You are deceived and trying to deceive God's children, but you will never be able to do so!
John said: "washed us from our own sins in his blood".....Acts 20:28 said:
"Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he (God) hath purchased with his own blood."
The church of God, purchased with the blood of Christ, whom Luke connect this to God purchasing the church~along with Revelation 1:5 that clearly said that Christ washed us from our sins in his own blood, thus making Christ ONE with his Father.
The one that is yet to come where every eye shall see him, is the Almighty God. So said Paul:
Titus 2:13
“Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.”
MTMattie
Well-known member
What a heretical statement.
Only if you promise to not post there.
1 Corinthians 15:28 as usual is not promoting the meaning you hope for.
28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.
Oneness... clear as a bell.
