Your Views on The Trinity

[mikesw]

This scripture plainly says the Son stretched out the heavens and laid the foundations of the earth.

Then the Son became flesh.

But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And: “You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
Hebrews 1:8-10


Who stretched out the heavens and the earth in this passage?

The Father or the Son?

I feel like the guy cannot even do simple logic. On one hand it is true that Jesus had not be born yet. However, the divine person existed and became known as Jesus. It is like the unitarians cannot figure out something so basic to the testimony of scripture.

 

[Peterlag]

God put his name in every spot of OT where GOD or LORD is found in the altered translations. Why? Because God wants it there, its his will, its satans will to have his name removed=to mislead.

I would comment if I understood what your point is. Even the word "god" is used in both the Old and New Testament referring to others besides God. The word Lord as well. We can't build teachings on names. I know 2 Spanish baseball players who have the name of Jesus. And nobody thinks they are God.

 

[Peterlag]

This scripture plainly says the Son stretched out the heavens and laid the foundations of the earth.

Then the Son became flesh.

But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And: “You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
Hebrews 1:8-10


Who stretched out the heavens and the earth in this passage?

The Father or the Son?

It is not plainly stated. Not even stated. God stretched out the heavens and laid the foundations of the earth. Why you think it was someone else is beyond me.

 

[Runningman]

I asked a simple question. If you don’t want to answer it then just say so.

The is Hebrews 1:8-10.



But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And: “You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
Hebrews 1:8-10


Who stretched out the heavens and the earth in this passage?

The Father or the Son?

The Father. Son wasn't involved in creation of the material universe.

 

[civic]

All arguments aside, John 17:1-3 is still there saying that the Father is the only true God. The plain text reading of the passage is intuitive and doesn't invite anyone to attempt to refute Jesus or explain away what he said.

It's also repeated explicitly in 1 Corinthians 8:6 and Ephesians 4:6. So we have a doctrine about the Father being the only true God, not just a standalone verse about the matter. What is your workaround for those?

No it’s saying the Son is equal with the Father with eternal life and the Father and Son were together in fellowship sharing the exact same glory together with each other before creation. John 17:3-5

hope this helps !!!

 

[Peterlag]

No it’s saying the Son is equal with the Father with eternal life and the Father and Son were together in fellowship sharing the exact same glory together with each other before creation. John 17:3-5

hope this helps !!!

May I have the Scripture that says...

1.) The son is equal with the Father
2.) The Father and son were together sharing the exact same glory together before creation

 

[FreeInChrist]

May I have the Scripture that says...

1.) The son is equal with the Father
2.) The Father and son were together sharing the exact same glory together before creation

You asked:
May I have the Scripture that says...

1.) The son is equal with the Father
Does John 5:18 work?

For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.

2.) The Father and son were together sharing the exact same glory together before creation
Does John 17:5 answer you?
“Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.


Now... Please. If you want me to stay away when I leave.

I am down on bended knee to ask you this.

I am begging from the bottom of my heart.... even though I know I should not be.

I have asked many before and not once gotten an answer.

But to the Son He says: I ask WHO is this Son? More importantly who is He?

“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; I say, He is saying to the Son Your throne, O God, so repeat. WHO is this Son? More importantly who is He?
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And: “You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
Hebrews 1:8-10

 

[Peterlag]

Another look at John 1:1...​

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” Right away we see a distinction:

The Word was with God.
And the Word was God.

This poses a question: How can the Word be both with God and be God at the same time? The answer lies in the Greek. The second use of “God” (theos) lacks the definite article — it’s qualitative, not identifying. It describes the nature of the Word, not its identity. Many scholars (even Trinitarian ones) acknowledge that this means: “the Word was divine” not “the Word was God Himself.” So the Word is God's expression, not a second person within God.

Then, in John 1:14: “The Word became flesh and dwelt among us...”

That’s not saying God became flesh, but that God's Word — His self-expression — became embodied in a man, Jesus the Messiah. This is about agency, not identity. Most importantly: John 1:1 never says “Jesus is God.” It speaks of the Word, which only later becomes flesh. Even then, Jesus himself says again and again that he is not the one true God, but the one sent by God (John 17:3, John 8:40, John 20:17).

 

[Peterlag]

Please.

I am down on bended knee to ask you this.

I am begging from the bottom of my heart.... even though I know I should not be.

I have asked many before and n0t once gotten an answer.

But to the Son He says: WHO is this Son? More importantly who is He?
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And: “You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
Hebrews 1:8-10

Hebrews 1:8 is not a teaching on the trinity or that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. Hebrews is saying your throne oh God is forever. Not Jesus is forever. In Hebrews it's quoted referring to Jesus having the use of that throne.

Hebrews 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Psalms 45:6
Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.

“Your throne is God.” Hebrews 1:8 is an almost exact quotation from the Septuagint version of Psalm 45:6, which itself was a very good translation of the Hebrew text of Psalm 45:6, and Hebrews 1:9 is from the Septuagint of Psalm 45:7. The theme of Hebrews 1 centers around the Father’s rule and elevation of the Son over the rest of creation. God spoke through the prophets, and then through His Son, who He appointed heir of all things and who is now seated at God’s right hand as second in command under God.

The God of the Son—anointed him and set him above his companions, such that the Son now sits on God’s right hand. Hebrews exalts the Son, and in so doing exalts the Father. But in contrast to what Trinitarians say, Hebrews 1:8 (and thus Psalm 45:6) does not call Jesus “God” and does not support the Trinity. To see that fully, one must study Psalm 45. Upon examination, Psalm 45 does not support the Trinity, so when it is quoted in Hebrews 1:8 then that quotation does not support the Trinity either. The Jews read Psalm 45 for centuries and never concluded that the Messiah would be “God in the flesh” or somehow be part of a Triune God.

 

[mikesw]

Hebrews 1:8 is not a teaching on the trinity or that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. Hebrews is saying your throne oh God is forever. Not Jesus is forever. In Hebrews it's quoted referring to Jesus having the use of that throne.

Hebrews 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Psalms 45:6
Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.

“Your throne is God.” Hebrews 1:8 is an almost exact quotation from the Septuagint version of Psalm 45:6, which itself was a very good translation of the Hebrew text of Psalm 45:6, and Hebrews 1:9 is from the Septuagint of Psalm 45:7. The theme of Hebrews 1 centers around the Father’s rule and elevation of the Son over the rest of creation. God spoke through the prophets, and then through His Son, who He appointed heir of all things and who is now seated at God’s right hand as second in command under God.

The God of the Son—anointed him and set him above his companions, such that the Son now sits on God’s right hand. Hebrews exalts the Son, and in so doing exalts the Father. But in contrast to what Trinitarians say, Hebrews 1:8 (and thus Psalm 45:6) does not call Jesus “God” and does not support the Trinity. To see that fully, one must study Psalm 45. Upon examination, Psalm 45 does not support the Trinity, so when it is quoted in Hebrews 1:8 then that quotation does not support the Trinity either. The Jews read Psalm 45 for centuries and never concluded that the Messiah would be “God in the flesh” or somehow be part of a Triune God.

This is confirmation of what Peterlag mentioned recently, namely that he does not know the OT.

 

[Peterlag]

Some of the terms found nowhere in Scripture...

• Co-equal
• Co-eternal
• Eternal son
• 1st person, 2nd person, 3rd person
• God the Holy Spirit
• Eternally begotten
• God the son
• One substance
• Pre-existant Christ
• Pre-incarnate Christ
• Persons of God
• Three persons, three in one
• Trinity
• Triune God
• Tri-unity
• Two nature's
• God became a man
• Infinite son
• Substance
• One substance.

Biblical theology must be based on biblical terminology. Otherwise, you're using religious glasses of church fathers to interpret the Word of God.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Some of the terms found nowhere in Scripture...

• Co-equal
• Co-eternal
• Eternal son
• 1st person, 2nd person, 3rd person
• God the Holy Spirit
• Eternally begotten
• God the son
• One substance
• Pre-existant Christ
• Pre-incarnate Christ
• Persons of God
• Three persons, three in one
• Trinity
• Triune God
• Tri-unity
• Two nature's
• God became a man
• Infinite son
• Substance
• One substance.

Biblical theology must be based on biblical terminology. Otherwise, you're using religious glasses of church fathers to interpret the Word of God.

And you use only your own, which are mainly wrong.

Why would you ever mention the name Trinity when you do not believe Christ Jesus to be God?

 

[Peterlag]

And you use only your own, which are mainly wrong.

Why would you ever mention the name Trinity when you do not believe Christ Jesus to be God?

May I have a word that I use that would be considered non-biblical terminology?

And also the word “Trinity” is not in the Bible, and that is supporting evidence that the doctrine is unbiblical.

 

[Keiw1]

I would comment if I understood what your point is. Even the word "god" is used in both the Old and New Testament referring to others besides God. The word Lord as well. We can't build teachings on names. I know 2 Spanish baseball players who have the name of Jesus. And nobody thinks they are God.

It was a major atrocity removing Gods name where he willed it. God doesn't do things for no reason, Thus all are proving 100% whose will they support by the translation used--Support of Gods will = a translation with his personal name in over 7000 spots--In support of satans will = using a translation with titles in place of Gods name. No wonder FEW will find the road. Most use the translations that mislead with titles.

 

[Peterlag]

It was a major atrocity removing Gods name where he willed it. God doesn't do things for no reason, Thus all are proving 100% whose will they support by the translation used--Support of Gods will = a translation with his personal name in over 7000 spots--In support of satans will = using a translation with titles in place of Gods name. No wonder FEW will find the road. Most use the translations that mislead with titles.

I have no idea what you're talking about. I read nothing about God's name in the Epistles which is the new Testament.