Finally, an answer.
Your Views on The Trinity
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Finally, an answer.
Peterlag
Active Member
More data on John 1:1...
John 1:1 is not a teaching on the trinity or that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. It seems difficult for people to understand that John 1:1 is introducing the Gospel of John, and not the Book of Genesis. The topic of John is God (the Father, the only God) at work in the ministry of the man Jesus of Nazareth, not the creation of rocks, trees and stars.Jesus Christ is not a lexical definition of logos. The verse does not say "In the beginning was Jesus." The "Word" is not synonymous with Jesus, or even the "Messiah." The word logos in John 1:1 refers to God's creative self-expression... His reason, purpose and plans, especially as they are brought into action. It refers to God's self-expression or communication of Himself. This has come to pass through His creation and especially the heavens. It has come through the spoken word of the prophets and through Scripture. Most notably it has come into being through His Son. The logos is the expression of God and is His communication of Himself just as a "word" is an outward expression of a person's thoughts. This outward expression of God has now occurred through His Son and thus it's perfectly understandable why Jesus is called the "Word." Jesus is an outward expression of God's reason, wisdom, purpose and plan. For the same reason we call revelation "a word from God" and the Bible "the Word of God."
If we understand that the logos is God's expression... His plan, purpose, reason and wisdom. Then it's clear they were with Him "in the beginning." Scripture says God's wisdom was "from the beginning" and it was common in Hebrew writing to personify a concept such as wisdom. The fact that the logos "became" flesh shows it did not exist that way before. There is no pre-existence for Jesus in this verse other than his figurative "existence" as the plan, purpose or wisdom of God for the salvation of man. The same is true with the "word" in writing. It had no literal pre-existence as a "spirit-book" somehow in eternity past, but came into being as God gave the revelation to people and they wrote it down.
A friens put it this way... "The word logos (Word) denotes (I) "the expression of thought" as embodying a conception or idea. λόγος logos, is something said (including the thought). So the word logos means an expression of thought. It makes perfect sense if we use this understanding everywhere the word logos is used. So in John 1:1 the Word is not Jesus, but rather it became flesh, which is God's expression of thought or plan that became flesh with the coming of Jesus Christ."
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The divine name kjv( 2015) put Gods name in NT where OT is being quoted, over 200 spots. They used the following sources to prove his name belongs.
1) Scriptures by the institute for scriptural research.
2) The Exegesis by Herb Jahn
3) New Englishmans Hebrew concordance by George V. Wigram.
Peterlag
Active Member
I read nothing in the New Testament about God saying anything about His name. What I do read is about the name of Jesus Christ being a big deal. A name that you probably do not care about.
The unitarians do not really belong in this thread because they do not have a view of the Trinity.
Romans 1:3-4 notes
concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord,
These verses speak first of the recognition of the humanity of Jesus as a descendant of David. The next verse provides the contrast of his divinity that does not exist as mere words but is demonstrated by the power of his resurrection from the dead.
The unitarians have to deny too much of scripture to sneak in their heretical view of Jesus.
Romans 1:3-4 notes
concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord,
These verses speak first of the recognition of the humanity of Jesus as a descendant of David. The next verse provides the contrast of his divinity that does not exist as mere words but is demonstrated by the power of his resurrection from the dead.
The unitarians have to deny too much of scripture to sneak in their heretical view of Jesus.
Jesus is my king. All true followers follow Jesus footsteps=John 17:6, 26--thus accomplish both of those simple tasks.
Peterlag
Active Member
Yeah well, that may have been the deal for Israel. But nobody comes to God's name in the New Testament.
All that know him do--Jesus warned most wouldn't know him-John 15:20-21)
Peterlag
Active Member
You got that right... most here don't have a clue who Jesus is. They think he's God.
Jesus warned about not knowing the Father. Yes they are being mislead--all using the altered translations are.
Peterlag
Active Member
A Trinity person asked...
Please explain how the Word that became flesh (Jesus) was with God and was God in the beginning before Christ was born? And how could Jesus have looked forward to the glory he had BEFORE becoming flesh?
And then someone replied with this...
Jesus did not physically exist before his birth, but rather was foreordained according to 1 Peter 1:20, which explains the “pre-existence” verses. God’s Word “Logos” in John 1:1 refers to God’s plan, wisdom, and intention. NOT a “second person” of the doctrine of men’s Trinity. That “Word” became flesh when Jesus was born and that was in John 1:14.
The “Word” was with God in the beginning because God’s plan and purpose for salvation was with Him from the start. But not as a literal person yet. So in John 17:5, when Jesus says he had glory with God before the world began, he’s not talking about remembering a past life. He’s asking the Father to now give him the glory that was planned for him all along.
Just like believers are said to be chosen “before the foundation of the world” (Ephesians 1:4), even though we didn’t exist yet. It’s about destiny, not preexistence. Jesus is God’s human Messiah, born at a specific time (Luke 1:35), not an eternal being who became a man. The beauty is that God’s plan - His Word - became a real person, when the precious Son was born!
Please explain how the Word that became flesh (Jesus) was with God and was God in the beginning before Christ was born? And how could Jesus have looked forward to the glory he had BEFORE becoming flesh?
And then someone replied with this...
Jesus did not physically exist before his birth, but rather was foreordained according to 1 Peter 1:20, which explains the “pre-existence” verses. God’s Word “Logos” in John 1:1 refers to God’s plan, wisdom, and intention. NOT a “second person” of the doctrine of men’s Trinity. That “Word” became flesh when Jesus was born and that was in John 1:14.
The “Word” was with God in the beginning because God’s plan and purpose for salvation was with Him from the start. But not as a literal person yet. So in John 17:5, when Jesus says he had glory with God before the world began, he’s not talking about remembering a past life. He’s asking the Father to now give him the glory that was planned for him all along.
Just like believers are said to be chosen “before the foundation of the world” (Ephesians 1:4), even though we didn’t exist yet. It’s about destiny, not preexistence. Jesus is God’s human Messiah, born at a specific time (Luke 1:35), not an eternal being who became a man. The beauty is that God’s plan - His Word - became a real person, when the precious Son was born!
Not plainly stated?
The following is said TO THE SON.
But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And: “You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
Hebrews 1:8-10
The Son is called God.
The Son is called LORD.
The Son stretched out the heavens and laid the foundation of the earth.
Unfortunately for your theory the word of God is clear and teaches the truth.
But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And:
“You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
Hebrews 1:8-10
Peterlag
Active Member
Hebrews 1:8 is not a teaching on the trinity or that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. Hebrews is saying your throne oh God is forever. Not Jesus is forever. In Hebrews it's quoted referring to Jesus having the use of that throne.
Hebrews 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Psalms 45:6
Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.
“Your throne is God.” Hebrews 1:8 is an almost exact quotation from the Septuagint version of Psalm 45:6, which itself was a very good translation of the Hebrew text of Psalm 45:6, and Hebrews 1:9 is from the Septuagint of Psalm 45:7. The theme of Hebrews 1 centers around the Father’s rule and elevation of the Son over the rest of creation. God spoke through the prophets, and then through His Son, who He appointed heir of all things and who is now seated at God’s right hand as second in command under God.
The God of the Son—anointed him and set him above his companions, such that the Son now sits on God’s right hand. Hebrews exalts the Son, and in so doing exalts the Father. But in contrast to what Trinitarians say, Hebrews 1:8 (and thus Psalm 45:6) does not call Jesus “God” and does not support the Trinity. To see that fully, one must study Psalm 45. Upon examination, Psalm 45 does not support the Trinity, so when it is quoted in Hebrews 1:8 then that quotation does not support the Trinity either. The Jews read Psalm 45 for centuries and never concluded that the Messiah would be “God in the flesh” or somehow be part of a Triune God.
Runningman
Active Member
God sent his best= Michael.
I don’t teach Trinity.
I haven’t mentioned Trinity.
All you have is denial.
But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And: “You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
Hebrews 1:8-10
The scripture plainly and clearly says…
But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
Who does He refer to?
Answer: the Father of the Son.
What does He say to the Son?
Your throne O God is forever.
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