Will Babies that die go to Heaven?

[Azriel]

the issue would be twofold but they both go hand in hand together.

original sin
baptism of infants

infant baptism was because of original sin and dealt with the "sin nature" in the infant which baptism would omit/nullify allowing the infant to be saved if they died.

I stand on the side that both of the above are doctrinal error. There is no "sin nature". The OT makes it clear that one becomes guilty and sin punishable when one commits a sin. Without committing a sin there is no consequences. Since an infant cannot commit a sin then they are not guilty or held accountable for sin.

Looks that way.

Romans 4:15
“Where there is no law, there also is no violation.”

Romans 7:8
“Apart from the Law sin is dead.”

 

[civic]

Looks that way.

Romans 4:15
“Where there is no law, there also is no violation.”

Romans 7:8
“Apart from the Law sin is dead.”

Amen.

 

[civic]

Here is something to consider that the Bible explains about sin in the OT.

Ezekiel 18:20
The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them.

Deuteronomy 24:6
Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin.

2 Kings 14:6
Yet he did not put the sons of the murderers to death, but acted according to what is written in the Book of the Law of Moses, where the LORD commanded: "Fathers must not be put to death for their children, and children must not be put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin."

 

[Lily]

Is there a biblical basis for believing that all persons who die in infancy are chosen for heaven by God? I believe there is. Because of the fact that all people are born without sin.

Every soul is born as a morally clean slate, and sin takes root in a person’s life only when he or she first engages in willful sin. That since a young child cannot make a willful choice to sin, the child who dies prior to sinning is an automatic candidate for heaven. In essence, a sinless child goes to a sinless eternity.

Sinfulness is a condition that comes upon people when they are old enough to make choices and decisions for themselves

 

[Bob Carabbio]

5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity;
And in sin did my mother conceive me.
Ps 51:5.

In the womb we are all shaped by iniquity.
When sperm and egg meet, we are conceived in sin.
Since salvation is of the LORD this places their salvation, as it does for everyone, squarely in the realm of God's will.
God doesn't see as man sees. He's not interested in outward appearances. He's only concerned whether of not you are elect and your name is in the book of life of the lamb.
Sorry, but the Scripture above and below declares all in sin, even those in the womb.

10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: Rom. 3:10.

So - in YOUR WORLD, Babies, aborted fetuses, and ANYBODY who dies up until they are Born Again, goes directly to hell, and Deut 24:16 is a lie.

 

[TedT]

BEFORE God created the world a lamb was slain.
Why?

ImCo,
when GOD proclaimed HIS Divinity and HIS gospel of salvation to every creature in creation as per Col 1:23 this revelation to us of HIS plan for all of HIS creation included the salvation of all who put their faith in HIM as their GOD and Saviour from sin by means of the atonement found only in the death of the Son.

It was the merit or dis-merit found in the various responses to this call to faith that resulted in either the election of some to be saved from their sins if they should ever choose to become sinful in HIS sight and the condemnation of those who rebuked HIM as a liar and a false god for choosing to sin this unforgivable sin.

This is the basis for the idea of a merit based election and dis-merit based non-election, that is, that election and reprobation was not based upon the whim of GOD. The revelation that the Lamb was to be slain for the sins of HIS elect and the election of some to HIS kingdom happened at the same time, before the foundation of the world.

 

[TedT]

God loves His creation so much that He would never allow children to spend eternity in hell.

All people are HIS creation but not all people are HIS children:
Deuteronomy 32:5 “They have corrupted themselves; They are not His children because of their blemish but a perverse and crooked generation. OR their blemish is that they are not HIS children.

Illegitimate children are mentioned in Heb 12:8 If you do not experience discipline like everyone else, then you are illegitimate children and not true sons.

What about HIS commands for the Israelites to kill ever man, women and child, ie the total extinction of all ages within a city or a nation? HIS non-respect for a young age supports the idea children are NOT all innocent but can be morally reprobate and can be condemned with the rest of the reprobate to hell. YHWH is not a house divided with the Father ordering the deaths of infants and Jesus saying that they are precious...our theology must include both logically.

 

[TedT]

I stand on the side that both of the above are doctrinal error. There is no "sin nature". The OT makes it clear that one becomes guilty and sin punishable when one commits a sin. Without committing a sin there is no consequences. Since an infant cannot commit a sin then they are not guilty or held accountable for sin.

Unless of course the sin nature refers to the enslaving addiction evil has over those who have chosen to commit a sin. If death proves sinfulness as the wages for sin, not a mere consequence of life, then the death of a fetus implies the fetus can be evil and can commit sin especially if it existed alive and aware in the spirit world before its conception into the physical world.

Please consider Gen 25:22 And the children struggled together within her. This bit of sleight of hand exegesis is found in the word struggled which is actually ratsats: to crush to pieces, ie, to murder, which suggests a sinful murderous intent in the fetal infants Jacob and Esau. Now one might be trying to destroy the other in legitimate self defence but they both can't be murderous by the command of GOD so at least one of them was in fact acting with a very sinful intent.

Consider also that GOD told Rebecca that the reason they were fighting was to be the first born...how did they get to know of the laws of primogeniture and what that meant in their human lives??? This is impossible if they were just newly created at conception as tabula rasa but if they were old spirits in Sheol, chosen to live predetermined lives on earth, there is no reason to think they could not know what these lives might hold for them in general and bring their murderous competition with them into the womb. It is plausible in the way the story is written...

​

 

[jeremiah1five]

Here is something to consider that the Bible explains about sin in the OT.

Ezekiel 18:20
The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them.

Deuteronomy 24:6
Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin.

2 Kings 14:6
Yet he did not put the sons of the murderers to death, but acted according to what is written in the Book of the Law of Moses, where the LORD commanded: "Fathers must not be put to death for their children, and children must not be put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin."

It was my understanding you held to the election of God in salvation.

 

[civic]

It was my understanding you held to the election of God in salvation.

Once upon a time. I don’t believe God predestined some to heaven and the rest to hell or eternal damnation. I reject that now.

 

[jeremiah1five]

So - in YOUR WORLD, Babies, aborted fetuses, and ANYBODY who dies up until they are Born Again, goes directly to hell, and Deut 24:16 is a lie.

That word is given to a people already under covenant.
But we are all born with a sin nature that requires Jesus to take our sin nature and nail it to the cross and His elect people take His righteous nature. A nature swap.
Jesus did not die for the acts of sin, and we are not imputed His righteous acts. This leaves the sin nature from which sin derives still intact.
We will not enter glory still retaining our sin nature.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Once upon a time. I don’t believe God predestined some to heaven and the rest to hell or eternal damnation. I reject that now.

I think you know enough and won't presume to try to change your mind.
Good luck with that.

 

[jeremiah1five]

ImCo,
when GOD proclaimed HIS Divinity and HIS gospel of salvation to every creature in creation as per Col 1:23 this revelation to us of HIS plan for all of HIS creation included the salvation of all who put their faith in HIM as their GOD and Saviour from sin by means of the atonement found only in the death of the Son.

It was the merit or dis-merit found in the various responses to this call to faith that resulted in either the election of some to be saved from their sins if they should ever choose to become sinful in HIS sight and the condemnation of those who rebuked HIM as a liar and a false god for choosing to sin this unforgivable sin.

This is the basis for the idea of a merit based election and dis-merit based non-election, that is, that election and reprobation was not based upon the whim of GOD. The revelation that the Lamb was to be slain for the sins of HIS elect and the election of some to HIS kingdom happened at the same time, before the foundation of the world.

Sorry, Ted, but you're misunderstanding the Scripture in Revelation:

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Rev. 13:8.

Since this takes place before God created (foundation) the world there would be no humans at the time.

Care to reconsider?

 

[civic]

I think you know enough and won't presume to try to change your mind.
Good luck with that.

What I have decided to do over the past few years in my faith journey and "deconstruction" a popular word these days is to now line up all my theological beliefs/doctrines from the POV and premise of Gods nature/character.

I believe all sound doctrine begins with the good nature and character of God. So when I begin with God I try and see what I believe lines up with Gods nature,attributes and character.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

That word is given to a people already under covenant.
But we are all born with a sin nature that requires Jesus to take our sin nature and nail it to the cross and His elect people take His righteous nature. A nature swap.
Jesus did not die for the acts of sin, and we are not imputed His righteous acts. This leaves the sin nature from which sin derives still intact.
We will not enter glory still retaining our sin nature.

We don't HAVE a "sin nature" any more than Jesus or Adam had. We Have a HUMAN NATURE, which we NEVER "lose". It's up to US to progressively "Crucify the flesh" (Gal 5:24) as we mature in our Christian walk. YOU (assuming that you've been Born Again) still sin on a regular basis. Why is that???

 

[Lily]

Once upon a time. I don’t believe God predestined some to heaven and the rest to hell or eternal damnation. I reject that now.

You saw the light. Hallelujah!

 

[civic]

You saw the light. Hallelujah!

no more in darkness I saw the light. now that tune will be stuck in my head lol.

 

[TedT]

Ezekiel 18:20
The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them.

Deuteronomy 24:6
Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin.

Do you reconcile these verses with the curret favourite theology that we die because for our father Adam's sin?

 

[civic]

Do you reconcile these verses with the curret favourite theology that we die because for our father Adam's sin?

The wages of sin is death and the result of the fall. All die as a result of sins curse. But an infant is not guilty of committing any sin therefor cannot be punished.

 

[TedT]

Is there a biblical basis for believing that all persons who die in infancy are chosen for heaven by God? I believe there is. Because of the fact that all people are born without sin.

Every soul is born as a morally clean slate, and sin takes root in a person’s life only when he or she first engages in willful sin. That since a young child cannot make a willful choice to sin, the child who dies prior to sinning is an automatic candidate for heaven. In essence, a sinless child goes to a sinless eternity.

Sinfulness is a condition that comes upon people when they are old enough to make choices and decisions for themselves

Sorry, this contradicts too many verses for me...plus it makes death a consequence for being alive when it is clearly a result of sinfulness.