You are confusing what is to be properly done unto God alone with what was and is improperly done unto others.
Thus, your argument is total nonsense.
And yet you couldn't refute any of the evidence I supplied that they do.
Classic.
Why The Trinity is Wrong: Juxtaposition
- Thread starter Wrangler
- Start date
You are confusing what is to be properly done unto God alone with what was and is improperly done unto others.
Thus, your argument is total nonsense.
And yet you couldn't refute any of the evidence I supplied that they do.
Classic.
Maybe you're surrounded by people who claim that they existed before Abraham but no one claims that around my circles. It's the loony bin for those people.
Jesus repeatedly called Himself the Son of Man in direct reference to the Theophanic Son of Man in Daniel 7:13-14. Listen to R.C. Sproul's excellent presentation on how Christ's usage of the name "Son of Man" reveals His Divinity.
What is clearly revealed in the Bible is the Divinity of Jesus. John 1:1 coupled with the undeniable Theophanies of the Word of God in the OT clearly reveal the Divinity of Jesus, with no "Multiple Personality Disorder" that the Utilitarian Jesus is diagnosed with and mentally suffers from. As for the Trinity, once you acknowledge the evidence that there are 2 Divine Persons, at least, then it's just one step away from acknowledging the Holy Spirit also as God based on all the Divine attributes He possesses as mentioned in the Bible, that are also accorded to the other 2 Divine Persons.
So there you have it. Three crystal clear proofs of Jesus' Divinity:
- John 8:58
- Jesus, the Divine Son of Man of Daniel 7:13-14.
- John 1:1 and the Theophanies of the OT.
Wrangler
Well-known member
Huh?
Another claim from nowhere.
Funny how you simply claim victory. Not only are you projecting, in ignoring the whole point of juxtaposition, you referenced verses that have nothing to do with it AND you failed to explain the connection you claim the verses make.
Just claiming verses even address the point of juxtaposition does not make it so. You provided no evidence.
You got to do a lot better than this. A lot better. If you can't, better to just ignore what I write.
Wrangler
Well-known member
Just another irrevelant statement. This thread is about juxtaposition. Don't hijack the thread to be about something else.
Wrangler
Well-known member
Another irrelevant post. No one is denying:
- Jesus is the son of god.
- Jesus is the son of man.
- Jesus is OF God --> Divine.
Wrangler
Well-known member
You cannot stop your eisegesis on John 1:1, which does not even reference Jesus.
Wrangler
Well-known member
There are many in the Bible who are OF God. Many angels and all the prophets, far more than 2 or 3. The Angel OF the LORD. And the many prophets of God.
The Strawman you are attempting to create is that being OF is the same as being IS. Divine. Deity. Not the same. Hence, the juxtaposition between God and Jesus.
Duh.
Because....
...this what you asserted:
"People in power have been prayed to and worshipped since the dawn of time."
I supplied evidence that refutes your heresy. You won't try to refute it.
Wrangler
Well-known member
Nonsense refutes itself.
101G
Well-known member
first, quit reading "GREEK" mythology and learn God language. there is no face to face, but ... notice how 101G say this... "ANOTHER" ...OF GOD, diversified, or EQUALLY SHARED in a ECHAD in TIME, ORDER, PLACE, or RANK.... while in Natural, and resurrected, (Glorified flesh). you cannot understand this can you? even when God made it clear, by the scriptures, you still cannot understand. listen again and LEARN. Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." I, I, I, I, AM he. a single person in the ECHAD, of equal share. not any face to face deception. but if you want the Greek to understand what you're IGNORANTLLY calling "face to face" ... learn G243 ALLOS. and you will have the understanding that God in the ECHAD is "ANOTHER" of himself in TIME, ORDER, PLACE, or RANK. now here is the Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments that 101G use for "ECHAD'. H259 אֶחָד 'echad (ech-awd') adj.
1. (properly) united, i.e. one.
2. (as an ordinal) first.
[a numeral from H258]
KJV: a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any(-thing), apiece, a certain, (dai-)ly, each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, a man, once, one, only, other, some, together.
Root(s): H258
take special Note of definition #2.
now, the GREEK equivalent, G243 ALLOS. 101G will be using the Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words
Another, "Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort" NOTE" both "a numerical difference", and "Sort"... look these words up for your edification and understanding.
now that your so called face to face belief is negated, listen to the TRUTH. the First, the LORD, all cap was "WITH" the Last right........... now, the truth, Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last."
the TERM "ALSO" means, "in addition; too", first addition is ANOTHER, but ANOTHER HOW. the term "IN" says it all. "IN" means, "expressing the situation of something that is or appears to be enclosed or surrounded by something else". here, it is "Flesh", or was INCLOSED in flesh, but this was in, in, in, "TIME", "PLACE", ORDER", and "RANK". so God is no MIRROW IMAGE of himself FACE TO FACE. no, because Spirit is Spirit, and Flesh is Flesh, but he is GOD, Diversified, or is the "ANOTHER" of himself in, in, in, in, Flesh. so in addition to, this is the NUMERICAL DIFFERENCE in G243 Allos. see it now?
understand, God could not have been a ECHAD before the World was..... WHY?... thank you, before the World was there was no NEED for any FACE to FACE, as you say. only in the BEGINNING was there a NEED for an "ECHAD", or THE "ANOTHER" .... WITH God, IN TIME, PLACE, ORDER, or RANK. so, your FACE to FACE is illogical., and IGNORANT. God is the "ANOTHER" of HIS OWN SELS, not an MIRROW IMAGE. but he, Gd himself in the ECHAD shared/or is the NUMERICAL DIFFERENCE of his OWN SELF...
you asked for details. ok, one more. God is Spirit... correct. can a Spirit be crucified? NO. so in "TIME", "PLACE", ORDER", or "RANK" he God had to OBTAINED of HIMSELF the ... and not a but the "EQUAL NATURE" ... NOTE: of, of, of, his OWN-SELF, in order to reside in Flesh, in a G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') state to be crucified for A. REDEMPTION, and B. SALVATION. (this is why 101G asked how much of the ONE Spirit was G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō'), while in Human Flesh, 100%, because God cannot be divided. (STOP and THINK. 101G just gave you the answer to the TRINITY ERROR). and after his resurrection, the Amalgamation of a NEW CREATION, "Spirit" united/or Unionized in Glorified Flesh. hence his preeminence, in which he is the FIRST from the Dead.....and the LAQST in Sinful Human flesh. Oh this is just to easy not to understand.
note, upon the Amalgamation of the Spirit and the Flesh, (Glorified), therein is no longer any ECHAD, in "TIME", "PLACE", ORDER", and "RANK"...... NOT IN HIM, for all time is once again the same time. so in Spirit, or Spirit in Flesh he is the ONE GOD
so, if you're willing to learn the truth, study A. the Hebrew term, "ECHAD", H259 אֶחָד 'echad (ech-awd') and the Greek term "ANOTHER", G243 Allos. both are displayed in the OT as well in the NT.
101G in Christ commend you for at least asking, before what you are really up against....... which is the first step in LEARNING GODLY TRUTH.
101G.
101G
Well-known member
which means the Lamb and God is the same one person, see above post..... (smile).
101G.
101G
Well-known member
@Fred.
Who is the Lamb.... Not Lamb of God but the Lamb. listen, Revelation chapter 5...... Revelation 5:1 "And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals." NOW THIS, Revelation 5:4 "And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon." Revelation 5:5 "And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof." Revelation 5:6 "And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth." Revelation 5:7 "And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne."
so Fred, who is the Lamb? please read the description carefully in verse 5 ....... (smile)
101G.
Who is the Lamb.... Not Lamb of God but the Lamb. listen, Revelation chapter 5...... Revelation 5:1 "And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals." NOW THIS, Revelation 5:4 "And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon." Revelation 5:5 "And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof." Revelation 5:6 "And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth." Revelation 5:7 "And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne."
so Fred, who is the Lamb? please read the description carefully in verse 5 ....... (smile)
101G.
so we can take this as you don't KNOW? thought so. (smile).....
101G.
You are not a "we".
I do know, but since your heresy was already refuted, I think of Matthew 7:6.
101G
Well-known member
@synergy, my friend.
here is another reference to the Lord Jesus in the OT, Zechariah 13:7 "Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones." this was fulfilled in the NT. Matthew 26:31 "Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad." Matthew 26:32 "But after I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee."
Zechariah 13:7 reveals a LOT. let's study the Word. Zechariah 13:7 "Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow". HOLD IT, a man who is God's FELLOW? the term FELLOW here is the Hebrew word,
H5997 עָמִית `amiyth (aw-meeth') n-m.
1. companionship.
2. (hence, concretely) a comrade or kindred man.
[from a primitive root meaning to associate]
KJV: another, fellow, neighbour.
notice definition #2. kindred man. now Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."
the term "OFFSPRING" is the Greek word,
G1085 γένος genos (ǰe'-nos) n.
kin.
{abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective}
[from G1096]
KJV: born, country(-man), diversity, generation, kind(-red), nation, offspring, stock
Root(s): G1096
KIN? as in KINsman REDEEMER, and did not he, GOD shared in flesh is the (KIN)sman REDEEMER? as Zechariah 13:7 say God's FELLOW, or Clearly as H5997 עָמִית `amiyth (aw-meeth') can be translated as "ANOTHER", just as I said, G243 ALLOS, "ANOTHER", which is a Numerical Difference... of the SAME, SAME, Sort. just the Greek term ANOTHER, means..... not a MIRROW IMAGE, but the SAME ONE.... EQUALLY SHARED..... in Zechariah 13:7 in FLESH. God's companion.
but also notice about "OFFSPRING" can be translated by the KJV.....diversity ... (smile). the Lord Jesus is the "diversity', or the OFFSPRING of David....... Bingo.
and this is through the OT.
101G
here is another reference to the Lord Jesus in the OT, Zechariah 13:7 "Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones." this was fulfilled in the NT. Matthew 26:31 "Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad." Matthew 26:32 "But after I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee."
Zechariah 13:7 reveals a LOT. let's study the Word. Zechariah 13:7 "Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow". HOLD IT, a man who is God's FELLOW? the term FELLOW here is the Hebrew word,
H5997 עָמִית `amiyth (aw-meeth') n-m.
1. companionship.
2. (hence, concretely) a comrade or kindred man.
[from a primitive root meaning to associate]
KJV: another, fellow, neighbour.
notice definition #2. kindred man. now Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."
the term "OFFSPRING" is the Greek word,
G1085 γένος genos (ǰe'-nos) n.
kin.
{abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective}
[from G1096]
KJV: born, country(-man), diversity, generation, kind(-red), nation, offspring, stock
Root(s): G1096
KIN? as in KINsman REDEEMER, and did not he, GOD shared in flesh is the (KIN)sman REDEEMER? as Zechariah 13:7 say God's FELLOW, or Clearly as H5997 עָמִית `amiyth (aw-meeth') can be translated as "ANOTHER", just as I said, G243 ALLOS, "ANOTHER", which is a Numerical Difference... of the SAME, SAME, Sort. just the Greek term ANOTHER, means..... not a MIRROW IMAGE, but the SAME ONE.... EQUALLY SHARED..... in Zechariah 13:7 in FLESH. God's companion.
but also notice about "OFFSPRING" can be translated by the KJV.....diversity ... (smile). the Lord Jesus is the "diversity', or the OFFSPRING of David....... Bingo.
and this is through the OT.
101G
Thanks for referring to a passage that teaches Jesus is not the Father.
Zechariah 13:7
Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd,
And against the man, My Associate,
Declares the LORD of hosts.
Strike the Shepherd that the sheep may be scattered;
And I will turn My hand against the little ones.
This passage teaches that Christ is both man and God. He is referred to as a "man" and He is the Father's "Associate". Being an "Associate" refers to Christ's equality with the Father - not that Christ is the Father.
When this Hebrew word for "Associate" (`amiyth) is found elsewhere in the Old Testament it is always used in reference to equal relations among people. Furthermore, it is never used in respect to say an earthly king and one of his immediate subordinates. All the other times it is used in Leviticus it is always in reference to how the Israelites are to be towards another Israelite (EQUALS - NOT THE SAME PERSON).
Leviticus 6:2
When a person sins and acts unfaithfully against the Lord, and deceives his companion in regard to a deposit or a security entrusted to him, or through robbery, or if he has extorted from his companion.
Leviticus 18:20
You shall not have intercourse with your neighbor's wife, to be defiled with her.
Leviticus 19:11
You shall not steal, nor deal falsely, nor lie to one another.
Leviticus 19:15
You shall do no injustice in judgment; you shall not be partial to the poor nor defer to the great, but you are to judge your neighbor fairly.
Leviticus 19:17
You shall not hate your fellow countryman in your heart; you may surely reprove your neighbor, but shall not incur sin because of him.
Leviticus 24:19
If a man injures his neighbor, just as he has done, so it shall be done to him:
Leviticus 25:14
If you make a sale, moreover, to your friend or buy from your friend's hand, you shall not wrong one another.
Leviticus 25:15
Corresponding to the number of years after the jubilee, you shall buy from your friend; he is to sell to you according to the number of years of crops.
Leviticus 25:17
So you shall not wrong one another, but you shall fear your God; for I am the Lord your God.
In fact, the Greek word used in the LXX is found in Hebrew 8:11 - "fellow citizen" - more than 1 Person (NOT the same person).
Hebrews 8:11 (politēs)
and they shall not teach everyone his fellow citizen, and everyone his brother, saying 'Know the Lord,' for all will know Me, from the least to the greatest of them.
101G
Well-known member
Correct, as with the video. the son of God Came out of Mary, EARTHLY, the Son of man came out of Heaven. finally someone is getting the tuth correct.
Son of God: Earthly, Flesh bone and Blood. scripture, Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God." son of God is the body, that the Son of man Came in. flesh bone and blood did not come from heaven.
Son of Man: Heavenly, Divine. from Heaven, Spirit. John 8:23 "And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world." BINGO.
so, you're correct.
101G.
101G
Well-known member
this is the IGNORANCE we speak of. listen,
you just destroyed your trinity doctrine. do not the trinity say that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are CO-EQUAL.... BUT DISTINCT AND SEPARATE? if separate then each have to be "EQUAL" ... "TO" one another, because they are separate and distinct from each other... RIGHT. well, if that is TRUE then that violates scriptures. because, Isaiah 40:25 states, "To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One." or this Isaiah 46:5 "To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?" no "ONE" is EQUAL "TO", "TO", "TO", God, only "EQUAL WITH', meaning the SAME ONE PERSON"..... in the ECHAD. if separate and distinct, then each is 'EQUAL TO" meaning you have three Gods. because each "PERSON" is EQUAL and DISTINCT.... (smile).
when one is equal "TO" that separation and distinct, and so, another separate and distinct God. LISTEN, 1 Chronicles 17:20 "O LORD, there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears." NOTICE THE CAPALIZATION, "G" IN "God" or this, Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." ME here is a SINGLE PERSON, not THREE PERSONS. or this, Isaiah 44:8 "Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any." AGAIN, "ME" IS A SINGLE PERSON. Isaiah 45:5 "I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:" and this, Isaiah 45:21 "Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me."
how many times must the LORD say he is a single person. if the Father is God, and the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. you have three PERSONS who is God.
so Zechariah 13:7 destroys any trinity beliefs. for to be another of the same "SORT, as ALLOS states, one must be the SAME Sort as "ONE" person. for the term "SORT" means, "a particular kind, species, variety, class, or group, distinguished by a common character or nature" well the trinity say the Father is not the Son, and vice versa. that just killed the "Associate" LIE. refers to Christ's equality with the Father. for the trinity states ... once more the Father is not the Son,,,.and vice versa.
101G.
