Did All Men Have a "Perfect Opportunity in Adam"?
@Johann
Absolutely. Adam was created in the very image of God in true holiness, free of a sin nature ~ with spiritual wisdom, knowledge and understanding with a will that did not love darkness rather it rejoiced in the light of his Creator. A will free from any bondage whatsoever, and in nay sense.
Added to this, he lived in a world free of any curse, with all that was needed to make him perfectly happy and contended, with a beautiful wife to live with him serving him as a help meet. Plus, God only gave him one commandment to live by, which truly encompassed all others that one make considered as a duty of Adam in order to please his Creator, God.
A question for you Johann ~ do you not see how God making Adam as your head and representative before God, is
so much better than you having sinful nature, that is at enmity against him, is
so much more righteous and merciful? Do, or anyone person, think you could have done better? Of course not. Angels which were created higher than we are, sinned and left their own estate
as soon as God left them to themselves, so, why do you think you could do do better.? Why are men so in love with what they think they have...free will? Truly, what's free about man's will, free to do what? Sin, that's the only way it is free, it certainly is
not free to do spiritual acts which would be pleasing to God, per so many scriptures. Romans 8:5-13. Yes, Johann, Adam came all of his posterity a prefect opportunity to obey using a will that was not at enmity agapist God.
The idea that all people had a “perfect opportunity” in Adam assumes a kind of strict federal headship—meaning Adam acted as our representative in a way that completely determined our fate. While it's true that Adam's sin affected all humanity (Romans 5:12), we must be careful not to overstate its implications.
Then please give to give me your understanding of Romans 5:12-19.
Romans 5:12-19~"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."
Paul introduced here the legal guilt of all men
in their first father Adam, condemning them a whole new way.
Paul had taken the Jewish legalists back to Abraham to show justification without circumcision or Law. Romans 4
Now He will take all men, Jews and Gentiles, back
to Adam and show them all guilty for his first sin.
Here in
Romans 5:12-19 we have revealed truth regarding the
cause and origin of death, which no man can discover or even begin to understand without God revealing this hidden mystery in the Bible to His children.
Theological battles have been fought over the individual words of this text with harsh accusations and great doctrinal differences arising from the efforts of man to overthrow the full force of this verse.
Here is where we see the doctrine of original sin, not in man’s nature, but in his legal guilt and condemnation.
This passage does not directly teach total depravity, but rather
guilt and condemnation for Adam’s sin. The distinction between original sin and total depravity in both word and concept is very important here, for there are two different, important doctrines represented by these words, both of which must be taught. Total depravity is the ruin of
man’s nature into a state of spiritual death (
Genesis 2:17;
Ephesians 2:1-3;
Romans 8:7-8). Original sin is legal guilt and condemnation of
all men for indirect participation in Adam’s sin in Eden. Total depravity is man’s propensity, yea necessity, of sinning from birth to death by
a rebellious nature. Original sin
is God’s accounting where He has imputed or charged Adam’s guilt and punishment to all.
If you choose to deny total depravity (
of nature), you are already legally guilty for the original sin of Adam.
If you choose to deny original sin (
of Adam), you are yet totally depraved and will condemn yourself by sins.
Consider that consistent and extreme Arminians, like Campbellites (Church of Christ), must deny original sin. They believe those with active consciences are saved by baptism, thus endangering all that die in infancy. Protestants save their infants from original sin by infant baptism, so Campbellites must deny original sin. They have said, “We are born sinless, pure, and spiritually alive,” denying original sin and total depravity.
Consider that Roman Catholics, accepting an idea of original sin, must invent infant baptism to save babies. By assuming baptism saves from original sin, they must not withhold the sacrament and risk infant lives. However, what happens to the poor infants of Catholic or other mothers that die without infant baptism? They comforted tearful mothers of infants dying without baptism by inventing Limbo Infantum for unbaptized babies (which led to Limbus Patrum, the decent place on the edge of hell for O.T. saints).
One of the gravest scenes is a cemetery with an erected tent, where another life, another body, another person, has ended all earthly ambitions and efforts and is consigned to total physical corruption. The scene proves God’s hatred for sin and the overwhelming ignorance of man, which cannot defer or modify death in any way.
Though we must soberly consider the doctrine of sin revealed here, we can remember our Savior with joy. He justified and made atonement for us, and much more than that will save from coming wrath (5:6-10) Furthermore, God also made atonement for us in Christ, putting us one with God as in Eden before (5:11). Where sin abounded and death reigned by Law, grace has abounded much more and life reigns (5:20-21).
There are things to keep in mind while studying this passage lest any confusion arise or any lessons be lost. Total depravity and original sin are quite different – vital versus legal condemnation – though connected. The sovereignty of God over man is exalted about as much as it can be by imputation of Adam’s sin. You may ask and answer questions that evolutionists cannot honestly do – Where did death come from? You may ask and answer questions that evolutionists cannot honestly do – Why has it not evolved away? You may ask and answer a question that should plague every thinking person – WHY DO BABIES DIE?
Grammatically, a reader may proceed from 5:12 to 5:18, where Paul took up after his parenthesis, for the therefore of 18 and the argument of both verses are drawing summary conclusions from 5:12-17.
Ezekiel 18:20 is clear: “The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son.”
If we inherited Adam’s guilt in a way that makes us personally incapable of responding to God, why does Ezekiel emphasize individual responsibility?
Johann, that's a fair and sincere question. I'm convinced that the prophet Ezekiel is speaking concerning how
each live in the flesh while they are living. Johann, this is the only sense this could be true, for at least two reasons that I can think of at the moment: first, it is true that in Adam all died because of his sin, this cannot be denied without rejecting God's word. Secondly, it is also, true God has, and can visit the sins of the father's up until the third or fourth generation of them that hated God while they lived in flesh during their days upon the earth.
Exodus 34:7
“Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear
the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth
generation.”
Numbers 14:18
“The LORD
is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing
the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth
generation.”
Deuteronomy 5:9
“Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God
am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth
generation of them that hate me,”
So, we must labor to reconcile are scriptures, which I know that it is not always easy to, must, we cannot refuse to consider scriptures just because we cannot make it fit into what we have come to accept and believe ~ honestly and sincerity are two godly virtues we must live by.
I may stop and come back and finish keep this from being too long.
; etc.).
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