Thomas... My Lord and my God

mikesw said:
his self-interest and desires were to serve the Father. He gave all that up to serve the Father. Is that really what you want us to take from your view? I'm searching for a course on unitarian logic. I have not found one yet.
You would have to be saying that the form of God is of self-interest. That idea is hard to make sense of.
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Form of God refers to Jesus being visibly and outwardly holy and righteous. Being holy as God is holy isn't just for Jesus, but for everyone. I hope you believe that atleast.
 
Peterlag said:
Very well put when you say... "What Jesus emptied himself of was his self-interests and desires in order to serve and obey God instead of himself."

I could add that he was rightfully born with royal blood being the King of the Jews and he emptied himself of that and took on the roll of a servant.
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Jesus could have been king of the Jews in a very earthly sense if he only would have prayed for permissiom from God to assist him fighting his way out of it. However, the Scripture needed to be fulfilled. Jesus cared about what God wanted more than what he wanted for himself.

Matthew 26
52But Jesus said to him, “Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword. 53Or do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels? 54How then could the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must happen thus?”
 
Runningman said:
Form of God refers to Jesus being visibly and outwardly holy and righteous. Being holy as God is holy isn't just for Jesus, but for everyone. I hope you believe that atleast.
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oh. You seem to feel that Jesus gave up being visibly and outwardly holy and righteous so that he could become a terrorist and a liar and a deceiver. Somehow that does not reflect the image that most people see of Jesus.
 
Peterlag said:
Very well put when you say... "What Jesus emptied himself of was his self-interests and desires in order to serve and obey God instead of himself."

I could add that he was rightfully born with royal blood being the King of the Jews and he emptied himself of that and took on the roll of a servant.
Click to expand...
Peterlag does not read this stuff. However, that idea of being the image of a king is hardly that level of having the form of God. This is incessant diminution of the divinity of Christ just to avoid acknowledging who Christ is. There are so many flimsy excuses used to deny the divinity of Christ in the Godhead.
 
mikesw said:
oh. You seem to feel that Jesus gave up being visibly and outwardly holy and righteous so that he could become a terrorist and a liar and a deceiver. Somehow that does not reflect the image that most people see of Jesus.
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You seem to have a very extremist sort of mindset. It's not like that at all. For example, "Scripture teaches Jesus was outwardly holy and righteous so he must have been a raging sinner before that" is ridiculous.
 
mikesw said:
Peterlag does not read this stuff. However, that idea of being the image of a king is hardly that level of having the form of God. This is incessant diminution of the divinity of Christ just to avoid acknowledging who Christ is. There are so many flimsy excuses used to deny the divinity of Christ in the Godhead.
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Why do you just make things up though? Jesus isn't in "the godhead" according to the Bible. Look, we are just talking about what the Bible says. I understand you have your religion and your beliefs, but in Christianity and the Bible the way you're spinning it isn't how it works.
 
Runningman said:
Jesus could have been king of the Jews in a very earthly sense if he only would have prayed for permissiom from God to assist him fighting his way out of it. However, the Scripture needed to be fulfilled. Jesus cared about what God wanted more than what he wanted for himself.

Matthew 26
52But Jesus said to him, “Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword. 53Or do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels? 54How then could the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must happen thus?”
Click to expand...
My point was he was rightfully born with royal blood being the King of the Jews and he emptied himself of that and took on the roll of a servant.
 
Runningman said:
You seem to have a very extremist sort of mindset. It's not like that at all. For example, "Scripture teaches Jesus was outwardly holy and righteous so he must have been a raging sinner before that" is ridiculous.
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Well both are wrong. But you were saying Jesus gave up holiness and righteousness. You are saying he gave up godly characteristics. That was not my interpretation. Your suggestion leaves Jesus as living a sinful life instead.
 
Runningman said:
Why do you just make things up though? Jesus isn't in "the godhead" according to the Bible. Look, we are just talking about what the Bible says. I understand you have your religion and your beliefs, but in Christianity and the Bible the way you're spinning it isn't how it works.
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I have to use that word "Godhead" because some people will make it like Jesus is another god. Scripture does not support there being other gods. Some people want to deny the divinity of God and just manage that by pretending half of the bible does not exist.
 
Peterlag said:
My point was he was rightfully born with royal blood being the King of the Jews and he emptied himself of that and took on the roll of a servant.
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so Peterlag says Jesus emptied himself of being the Messiah so he could become the Messiah. Is any time someone is a king mean that he has the form of God; I do not think that is scriptural. Is anyone else getting dizzy with this sort of unitarian logic?
 
Runningman said:
Well, Jesus was a very ambitious man who knew what he was capable of. Remember when he was tempted in the wilderness? The bread, all the kingdoms of the world and their glory, were at his fingertips ready for the taking and he wanted that otherwise it wasn't a temptation. What Jesus emptied himself of was his self-interests and desires in order to serve and obey God instead of himself.
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Oy vey!!!!!

You do not even know why He emptied himself.

The common teaching on this is

When Philippians 2:7 states that Jesus "emptied himself" by taking on the form of a servant and being made in human likeness, highlighting His humility and willingness to serve others. This verse emphasizes the significance of Jesus' incarnation and His choice to live among humanity. ( From Bible Hub)

But it truly is not that simple.


Phil 2:7

Jesus did the SELF_EMPTYING by His own volition. It was not taken from Him voluntarily gave up His divine privileges.

This is known as "kenosis," highlighting His humility and willingness to serve.

Defining the term that you likely do not know from the American Heritage Dictionery

noun​

  1. The relinquishment of some of the attributes of God by Jesus in becoming man and suffering death.
  2. Christ's voluntary divestment of his divine powers.
This just shows Jesus took on the "form of a servant," indicating His choice to live a life of humility and service rather than one of power and authority.

Do you want more?

There is a very large Theological Significance in what he did..... and make no mistake He did it for you, and me and the world at large ,even if it was regional at the time.... although most will have failed to accept Him on any count.

Take His incarnation.... This is where Jesus, while fully divine, became fully human.

WHY did this have to happen? Simply to emphasize His connection to humanity.

Phil 2: 6-8
6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, ( people would not understand)

7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Why? Because He chose to become a servant, demonstrating the depth of His love and commitment to humanity.

I'll stop now because you either understand or not.

​

 
Runningman said:
Well, Jesus was a very ambitious man who knew what he was capable of. Remember when he was tempted in the wilderness? The bread, all the kingdoms of the world and their glory, were at his fingertips ready for the taking and he wanted that otherwise it wasn't a temptation. What Jesus emptied himself of was his self-interests and desires in order to serve and obey God instead of himself.
Click to expand...
That verse says that Jesus emptied Himself before He became a man. He emptied Himself to the extent that He took on the form of a servant.

So the question remains, in His preexistent state, before He was a man, what did He empty Himself of?
 
@Peterlag is afraid to debate the one person who has been after him for months and months to debate.icon_atomrofl.gif

@Peterlag is afraid to even mention his name.smiley_laughing_histerically.gif

Shame, shame, shame......................... hilarious.gif
 
Peterlag said:
The @Administrator seems interested in having a debate. I suggested @Peterlag - @Runningman - @Keiw1

To go up against @Fred - @mikesw - @Doug Brents

However, the boss would enjoy having less than 6 people. I might be able to talk him into me and Runningman against 2 of you.

If not It's going to be just me and which one of you?
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No, I offered to set up the debate, it was @FreeInChrist who had the idea. And just so you know, I'm not anyone's Boss. just let me know who will be in the debate. 6, 4, or 2 members You guys decide.
 

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