When Grace is not Grace

[praise_yeshua]

Does He not send strong delusion in 2 Thessalonians so people will believe a lie?

Sure. God damns those that reject Him. You purposely left off the reason for God's actions in your response....

2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

You're being deceptive and it is shameful.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I did. One more time. God can use deception for honorable reasons. Not all deception is nefarious.

God doesn't owe anyone information. Including you..... You're falsely attributing the evil purpose of deception to God....

How wonderful you are ....... << sarcasm.....

 

[Presby02]

God doesn't owe anyone information. Including you..... You're falsely attributing the evil purpose of deception to God....

How wonderful you are ....... << sarcasm.....

Your right. No one said He did.

 

[Presby02]

Sure. God damns those that reject Him. You purposely left of the reason for God's actions in your response....

2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

You're being deceptive and it is shameful.

So He decieved them to believe a lie to damn. Please read the whole thing instead of cherry picking.

 

[praise_yeshua]

So He decieved them to believe a lie to damn. Please read the whole thing instead of cherry picking.

2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Is it better that I posted them together now for you?

 

[civic]

So He decieved them to believe a lie to damn. Please read the whole thing instead of cherry picking.

Read Roman’s 1:18 through the rest of the chapter and learn biblical truth and repent of your false accusations against God

 

[praise_yeshua]

Read Roman’s 1:18 through the rest of the chapter and learn biblical truth and repent of your false accusations against God

I read as a young man that Augustine read the book of Romans every day of his life. I began studying the book of Romans more and more. I have long believed that if you're going to understand the Scriptures, you must know every word and teaching from the book of Romans. You must also realize the impact of Stephen's sermon upon Paul from Acts 7. The book of Romans is the single greatest inspired narrative of the life of humanity from beginning that exists in the Scriptures and Stephen's sermon crush Paul. I believe Paul instantly knew he was wrong from Stephen's sermon. Which is why Jesus said the words to Paul that he did.... " it is hard to kick against the goads". God was leading Paul through Stephen

I've given the words of the book of Romans so much thought over the years. I love the words found in the book of Romans.

 

[Presby02]

Read Roman’s 1:18 through the rest of the chapter and learn biblical truth and repent of your false accusations against God

Were talking about 2 Thessalonians. Pay attention

 

[TomL]

Does He not send strong delusion in 2 Thessalonians so people will believe a lie?

Does he do so with his own children?

 

[Presby02]

Does he do so with his own children?

Does it matter? Your whole premise is blown out of the water.

It's okay to decieve some but not others?

 

[TomL]

Does it matter? Your whole premise is blown out of the water.

It's okay to decieve some but not others?

Yes it does matter

Sorry no you have not blown anything out of the water at all.

Are you really comfortable with a God who deceives his own people?

Who has a word which cannot be trusted?

 

[Presby02]

Yes it does matter

Sorry no you have not blown anything out of the water at all.

Are you really comfortable with a God who deceives his own people?

Who has a word which cannot be trusted?

It says what it says. Your problem is with scripture, not I.

So it's okay to decieve unbelievers to believe a lie but not believers? Where do we find this unwritten rule?

 

[TomL]

It says what it says. Your problem is with scripture, not I.

So it's okay to decieve unbelievers to believe a lie but not believers? Where do we find this unwritten rule?

Sorry I do not see anywhere that bible teaches God deceives his own people

 

[brightfame52]

Grace is not Grace when we add conditions to Salvation,that God wall only save us after we do something first , like accepting, believing, repenting, or obedience, but Grace causes the effect of repentance, believing and obedience, however, salvation is not based on the effect, but that which caused the effect, Grace !

 

[TomL]

Grace is not Grace when we add conditions to Salvation,that God wall only save us after we do something first , like accepting, believing, repenting, or obedience, but Grace causes the effect of repentance, believing and obedience, however, salvation is not based on the effect, but that which caused the effect, Grace !

Except salvation is not had unless faith first exists

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

 

[brightfame52]

Except salvation is not had unless faith first exists

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Faith exists by Grace, we've been over this numerous times,

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/refuting-effectually-caused-faith.1295/

 

[TomL]

Faith exists by Grace, we've been over this numerous times,

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/refuting-effectually-caused-faith.1295/

And you never have shown salvation is had before faith

John 20:31 (NASB 2020) — 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that by believing you may have life in His name.

 

[brightfame52]

And you never have shown salvation is had before faith

John 20:31 (NASB 2020) — 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that by believing you may have life in His name.

Been over that passage with you, thats the Sheep. Jn 10 and theyre regenerated or of God, scripture isnt written to the unbelieving reprobate world.

 

[TomL]

Been over that passage with you, thats the Sheep. Jn 10 and theyre regenerated or of God, scripture isnt written to the unbelieving reprobate world.

Sorry there is no mention of sheep here

you are reading your theology into scripture

 

[Behold]

Jesus is Salvation.

That's it.

Not law, not commandments, not self effort, not water baptism, not church membership...


Jesus is Salvation.....and the way God designed the Salvation who is JESUS on THE CROSS to be given to you, is "by Faith".