Azriel
Well-known member
Good Post.. I like it, both the part about love fulfilling the law a "BINDING" Covenant.
What is the New Covenant?
- Thread starter civic
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Few have the love of the new covenant.
101G
Well-known member
One must give the love for family and friends to ones enemy as well. Never to return evil for evil.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
The command is to love brethren ONLY.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
Not true: Love your enemies and pray for him.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Let's see if you have your doctrine in all the right places.
The original command was given to the children of Israel in their Law.
The Tabernacle was built and God placed the twelve tribes around it. Three tribes were situated by God on the east of the Tabernacle, three tribes to the north, three tribes to the south, and three tribes to the west. Over 3 million Jews in the desert living in encampments ordered by God around the Tabernacle. There are no Gentiles anywhere near this Great Congregation of people.
Here is the original command of God to His covenant people:
(I'm going to supply the obvious below) -
17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother [member of the same tribe] in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour [member of another tribe living next to them], and not suffer sin upon him. 18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people [member of any tribe], but thou shalt love thy neighbour [member another tribe living next to them] as thyself: I am the LORD. Lev. 19:17–18.
Messiah was prophesied and promised to Israel as a "prophet like unto [Moses]" in Deuteronomy 18:18. When Messiah came John says He was "manifest to Israel" (Jn. 1:31). And why not? He is a Jew from the tribe of Judah, prophesied to Israel, and finally God sent Him to Israel.
When Jesus arrived and was stopped by a Syrophoenician woman He told her, "I am not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel" and this was true. God did not send Messiah to Gentiles, but in fulfillment of prophecy He was sent to Israel. He taught Israel. He healed Israel. Everything He did was to and for Israel. Now, let's take a look at this:
43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Mt. 5:43–48.
If you know Jewish history, you should know at one time after Solomon died his kingdom split into two warring camps. Ten tribes made up the northern kingdom, and two tribes made up the southern kingdom. They had both good kings and evil kings. And they warred with each other through the decades before their conquest and subsequent exile by the Assyrians first and the Babylonians.
After their exile they returned to their land (not all) to rebuild the wall and re-establish their homeland. One thing that reared its ugly head was the historical animosities of their kingdom years. The tribes were literally enemies with themselves. This is the backdrop of the Lord's words in Matthew.
vs. 43. "Love your neighbor" (your allied kingdom tribe) and hate your enemy (your opposing kingdom tribe.)
vs. 44. Jesus is trying to unite His people, to love their kingdom enemy, bless them that curse you, do good to those that hate you, and pray for them that despitefully use you and persecute you. And in Israel these tribes were all mixed up, no borders separating the tribes.
vs. 45. "that you might be the children of your father in heaven for He sends rain on the good and the evil" (all the tribes.)
vs. 46. For if you love only your kingdom allies which love you what reward is there? The publicans do the same - and they did.
vs. 47, 48, you get the rest?
So, there's the original command of God for covenant brethren and neighbor to love their fellow covenant brethren and neighbor. God never commanded Israel to love non-covenant Gentiles. Quite the opposite. He commanded Israel to not mingle with the Goyim (Gentiles, those uncircumcised dogs) nor learn their ways. But they didn't listen.
Then there is this:
15 Love not the world [non-covenant inhabitants], neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 1 Jn 2:15.
and this:
4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. James 4:4.
For any covenant person that loves or makes friends with non-covenant unsaved people God calls them adulterers and adulteresses. Here's another thing: What's it called when a woman betrothed to a man loves another man the same way she loves her husband? Isn't it called adultery? It's the same if the man betrothed to a woman loves another woman the same way he loves his wife. Adultery.
Ephesians 5:25 states Christ died for His Church, His Bride. His Bride is Israel. His Church is Israel. God is betrothed to Israel. If you are a born-again Gentile Christian, you are a part of the body of Christ and joined with other born-again members of the same body. If you, as member of the body of Christ love a non-covenant unsaved person then you are being unfaithful to both God and brethren. In a sense you are joining your body and the body of Christ if you give holy love to an unholy, non-covenant, unsaved person whore. You see, what God has given you in salvation is meant to be shared and given to your covenant, saved, holy brethren for their edification and growth. Holy love for a holy people, and a holy people for a Holy God.
So, be chaste. Don't be unfaithful to brethren and love the world or be friends with the world nor be unequally yoked with unbelievers. If you do and if you are God calls that person or persons that, do it an adulterer.
Ya falla?
Doug Brents
Well-known member
I see. So we are not to take what we received freely and give it away freely? We are not to seek and save the lost? We are not to heap coals of fire on the heads of our enemy when we show him love instead of hate? We are not to love our enemies instead of hating him? It seems that Christ says differently.
Matt 5:43-48 - love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, prove yourselves to be sons of your Father who is in heaven
Luke 23:34 - Jesus prays, forgives, and shows love to those who murdered Him.
1 Pet 3:9 - Do not repay evil for evil, on the contrary, bless, for to this you were called, that you may obtain a blessing.
Rom 12:14, 17-19
Rom 5:8
Can you not be married to your wife, and still show love and kindness to others, men and women alike? Absolutely. Showing them love and kindness is not taking them into the marriage covenant instead of or in addition to your wife. In the same way, God can show kindness to sinners and to the Church at the same time, and not be unfaithful to His bride.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
What God gives a born-again believer is meant for other born-again believers. Holy things for a holy people.
That's what God commands and God instructs.
Jesus said to not cast your pearls (and the pearl represents God's Word) before swine.
Nor do we give that which is holy to dogs (non-covenant.)
In Scripture the "lost" always refer to God's elect, those whose name is in the book of life of the lamb slain from [before] the foundation (creation) of the world (Rev. 13:8.) We never know who this person is, but God does, and it is after they are born again that through testing the spirit (1 John 4:1-2) that we can know, too.
IF God has spoken directly to you through internal witness and external witness (before the assembly) and actually you heard His voice and His incontrovertible Word in your spirit or through prophecy then do what you are commanded. He will equip you as He did all the prophets in the OT and people like Paul and Timothy. God is the one that baptizes into the body of Christ your member (place) and God will be the one to speak to you your calling and reveal your spiritual gifts to accomplish that calling (Acts 13:1-4.) In the meantime, do not copy or mimic another brethren's call or ministry. This is called 'busy-body" and interference. While you wait for God's revelation to you it says to learn to live with others as peaceably as possible. Keep reading and studying your bible (requiring a good translation), continue the fellowship, be attentive, learn to mind your own business, and above all wait. Make sure you are in a church fellowship in which ALL the gifts of the Spirit are taught and exercised. Let those who are called to "save" the "lost" serve in the measure of faith God gives them. Look for ways to serve in your fellowship. Take note of what you love and good at and follow through in the service to God that allows you to practice and exercise and grow your pound and talent.
You do this to brethren that have issue with you and stay faithful to God and His Word. Brethren can be your enemy. Covenant Israel had enemies within their own encampments. Human nature does get the best of us at times if we are not solid.
God's love is Holy. We are given His love through what Christ did and through the Holy Spirit. Paul mentioned that love comes with profit and when you give holy love to holy brethren you get holy love in return from those that know God's Word and teaching on the subject. Remember that God's love is not emotional love. Brethren confuse the two. They stumble over themselves to show self-righteousness and make every effort to give holy love to unholy people. There is no profit in that. In Scripture love is a verb, a word of action. God so loved...that He GAVE.
I've given you the location in Scripture the original command of God to His COVENANT people Israel to love covenant Israel. Jesus didn't change the Law. In Matthew He was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, not Gentiles. If you have a brethren that is your enemy - and this does not mean open physical conflict, but it can - there are brethren that bring "schism" to the body of Christ through LACK of love. Listen carefully. Example: You hear brethren say "Oh, sister so-and-so thinks she looks good in that hat," or someone will say, "Every week pastor is always asking for money and volunteers..." these are all evidence of lack of love. These are sinful attitudes, "demons." For that is what demons are: attitudes. Like Cain, "Am I my brother's keeper!" In my 46 years being saved I have had several fistfights with brother's over things. We never forget we are saved. And God will always heal such conflicts. The end result as was my experience was a stronger bond and greater understanding and consideration. So, if you want to give that which is holy to unsaved people then you go ahead. God does not reward disobedience.
I've given you the context in which Jesus was referring and He was referring to Israel of twelve tribes. Try not to look at Scripture with a Gentile mindset. Not even God gives that which is holy to dogs (non-elect), nor cast His pearls to swine (unclean people that will never become clean.)
If they are born swine, they will die swine. If they are born sheep, they have and will always remain sheep. God's elect are not born a wolf, become saved and now they are sheep. It doesn't happen in the natural and it doesn't happen in the spiritual. God knoweth.
Jesus is High Priest. In the OT the high priest does two things: He prays for the people of God and he offers sacrifice for the people of God. Read John 17. Jesus prays. He directs His prayer to God His Father. He prays for the apostles the Father gave Him, and for those that will come to Him through their testimony. He also prays for those that haven't seen Him but will believe. Matin Luther calls this prayer in John 17 the "Holy of Holies" prayer, for Christ as High Priest is praying for the people of God throughout all time, every name that is in the book of life of the lamb. Several hours later that night Jesus is arrested, tried, and condemned to die as sinner. As High Priest He offers sacrifice for the people of God: Himself. Also notice in John 17:9. Jesus doesn't offer this prayer, nor does He pray for the world (of the non-elect, unsaved.) IF Jesus died for ALL mankind, then right here, He should have included the "world" (of the non-elect) in His prayers as High Priest. But He doesn't. The world of non-elect, non-covenant people are without a prayer. On the cross Jesus says, "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do" and makes a final plea to the Father to forgive His people He's chosen from the foundation of the world and are named in the book of life. Jesus is not asking the Father to forgive those that are crucifying Him. He's not even asking the father to forgive the Romans. Jesus had a mission, a work to perform. And it is all in accordance with the Father's plan. Jesus wasn't "winging" it. There was specific purpose to everything He did and everything He said.
All these Scriptures are addressed to covenant Jewish believers, and through them, now to Gentile believers. But the Word of God is spoken and written to Jews. Hebrews/Jews were the ones that had God's covenant and the promises.
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. Rom. 9:4–5.
If you want God to call you an adulterer, then go ahead. God is a jealous God and He fawns over His people. If you give this to unholy people then you are unfaithful to God and brethren alike. What God has given you is meant for ME and others in the body. If you can't keep your promise to God as God has given promise to you, then you are an adulterer.
Obedience is better than sacrifice for rebellion to God is as witchcraft (1 Sam. 15:22-23.)
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. Gal. 6:7–8.
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Doug Brents
Well-known member
That is false. Christ gave the Gospel message to the Pharisees, but most of them refused Him. The message went to the Jews first, but they refused the Gospel and so the Gospel was given to the Gentiles.
There is no Jew or Gentile as far as the Gospel is concerned. All are one in Christ: those Jews who did not believe were cut off from Israel, and those Gentiles who did believe are grafted into Israel.
False. All are born into sin (with a sinful nature, not that we are guilty of "original sin"), and all will sin and are in need of a savior. No one is born "in Christ". Every single person must put his/her personal faith in Christ.
This whole post may be the most ungodly thing I have ever read. It is not adultery to show love, compassion, grace, mercy, and kindness to someone other than my wife (or to those outside of the Church). It is commanded that we reach out to those outside of the Church and bring them into the Church, and we do that through our love. If those in the Church had not sought to bring others into the Church, then the Church would not have grown from the 120 souls in the upper room on Pentecost and they would be the only souls in the NT saved.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
So, you're talking about Replacement Theology then.
In Jeremiah 31 God says He's making a New Covenant with the House of Israel. Are you Hebrew? Jew?
The covenant God made with Abraham and his seed (the children of Israel/Jacob) He said it's everlasting. A covenant with no end.
8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God. Gen 17:8.
This covenant is both natural and spiritual. And notice there is no requirement of "faith" in this covenant. The land is the natural aspect and circumcision, while physical/natural, it also accommodates a spiritual accommodation if later prophecy connected to circumcision of the 'heart' (life.)
The Mosaic Covenant was made with the children of Israel/Jacob (a son of Abraham.) This covenant was not made with any Gentile or seed of Gentiles. None. The prophecy/promise in Jeremiah 31 is a New Covenant with the House of Israel (and Judah.) All twelve tribes. No Gentiles mentioned here also. This covenant God makes with the House of Israel is everlasting as well for it builds upon the covenant God made in the desert with the children of Israel (Abraham.)
All the Pharisees did not reject their Messiah nor what Messiah meant to the Judaic/Abrahamic/Mosaic covenants. Today, when a Gentile is born again there is no declaration of any covenant God makes with the person. God is merely bringing in Gentiles as prophesied. But the covenants and all the promises are held by the children of Israel known today as the Jews.
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. Rom. 9:4–5.
Christ came as the God of Abraham "in the flesh" to and for Israel. John says this in John 1:31. Jesus says this in Matthew that He was sent TO (and FOR) the lost sheep of the house of Israel, a people who hold all the promises and covenants Paul mentions above. But God made no such covenant with Gentiles. The Times of the Gentiles is a sort of sideshow, an opportunity to bring in Gentiles, with no covenant they can speak of. God is USING Gentiles in this epoch of history to make His Bride and Church who is Israel jealous and then "all Israel shall be saved." Paul doesn't say, "all Israel will accept their Messiah the Pharisees rejected, but that merely all Israel will be saved, and they will be saved through covenant with or without faith. Joseph of Arimatea and Nicodemus were Pharisee. In Acts 6 read what it says:
7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith. Acts 6:7.
A great company of 70 priests. What shall we say, a majority of the 70? So, although the ones that made decision to kill Jesus may have been among the "great company" who were obedient (saved), and most probable is priests who didn't vote to kill Jesus - either way - were among the 3000 Jews saved at the Feast of Harvest in Acts two. The New Covenant Church of Israel was founded by Jews and is a continuation of the covenants and prophecies and promises God made with the house of Israel which is an everlasting covenant. So, it matters not that those Pharisees reject their Messiah God is rich in mercy over all His covenant people and they will ALL be saved, not by faith, but through covenant merely because God chooses to keep His Word to Israel and save them.
At the Marriage Supper Israel will be there through covenant.
Gentiles are there by invitation (Matt. 22:1-14.)
For Gentiles to steal a heritage of covenants and promises God gave to Israel is sin. They may do it in their false interpretations of the Jewish Scriptures but in the end will not get away with it.
And the gospel was not given to Gentiles. They merely stole and usurped it from Israel after the destruction of the Temple. But when the Times of the Gentiles is over, and God turns His full attention to His Bride and True Church who is Israel, and the two witnesses of Revelation make the scene and begin their prophecy it won't be Gentile doctrine they witness to but the First Covenant Jewish Scriptures. And all Israel shall be saved.
First, Paul writes to Jewish Christians who founded the Jewish home churches after the "split" with their Judaic Jewish brethren in all the area of Asia Minor. Paul is referencing the spiritual aspect of the Ministry of the Holy Spirit in bringing in Gentiles, but the covenant made by God included no Gentiles. God is merely bringing in Gentiles without covenant because His purpose is to make His true Bride and Church who is Israel jealous. Notice Gentiles are being grafted into the natural branches which is Israel. The reason being is that Gentiles have no covenant upon which to stand on.
The heretic Marcion tried to unmoor Jewish Christianity from its Jewish roots but got shot down. My guess is Gentile Christians did the shooting. Today, it's the same heresy with a twist. It's not an 'unmooring' but an actual replacement (theology) in the Gentile Church today. Sorry to say but Gentiles will get a very rude awakening when Israel's Jewish Messiah returns.
I didn't say "all are born in Christ." I said that a person whose name is in the book of life born into the world with a sin nature is not seen by God as a swine, or a goat, or a wolf. God ever sees the people He's going to save as "sheep." What I am also saying is that such a person born with a sin nature whose name is in the book of life of the lamb is not a goat, becomes saved, and is now a sheep. It doesn't happen in the natural world, and it doesn't happen in the spiritual world.
Whether sexual, emotional, or any other affection a husband gives to someone other than his wife, and vice-versa, is adultery. Make friend with the world, James says, and you are an enemy of God. Love the world of unbelievers and you are not of 'the father.' I don't have to worry about sinning against God in this fashion. I am a faithful and obedient bride member.
Really? And God has spoken to you as taught and revealed in Scripture? (Acts 13:1-4). You actually have a calling He's told you about and you know your place in the body of Christ? You also know your spiritual gifts? God told you? Were there really 120 people in the upper room on Pentecost? Or maybe it was only eleven Galileans the people heard speak in their languages? (Acts 2:7.)
Since Jesus was prophesied to and for Israel. And was revealed to and for Israel. And Jesus came to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. and the Holy Spirit of Promise was promised as per covenant with the house of Israel to and for Israel, and the fact that it happened on the day of a Jewish feast in which there was no one but Jews in attendance, and that 3000 Jews were saved that day, it would be inconsistent for God to turn on a dime and His first messages are to Gentiles and their dumb idols. The Temple still stood. The "ism" of Judaism was in full swing. The New Covenant Church was founded by Jewish Christians and in the first four decades God was pouring out His Spirit upon all flesh of the house of Israel since the prophet and the prophecy is to and for Israel. When you look at your bible and see the First and Second Testaments, don't look at it as the first half of the bible is Jewish and the other half is Gentile. The Jewish Christians that authored those writings in the second half of the bible was really Authored by the Holy Spirit of Promise and the message within its pages is a message from God to and for His Bride and Church Israel.
But God made no covenant with Gentiles.
One is to never return evil for evil, If your enemy is hungry feed him, if thirsty give him a drink. Keep on conquering the evil with good--Thats what the new covenant is about.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
The original command God gave to His covenant people is in Leviticus 19:17-18. It is a command for covenant brethren to love covenant brethren ONLY. With regard to Israel God also commanded them to not mingle with the Gentiles (non-covenant) nor learn their ways. When Jesus said to love your enemy He was speaking to Israel of twelve tribes and the continued animosity the ten tribes of the northern he kingdom had against their enemy of two tribes of the southern kingdom. God never commands His covenant people to love or be friends with any non-covenant people.
We are commanded to give that which God gives us to brethren ONLY. God's love is Holy. We are commanded to not give that which is holy to dogs (non-covenant), nor cast our pearls to swine (unclean, unsaved, sinful people.)
He says love not the world (non-covenant inhabitants) for if you do the love of the father is not in you (because God does not reward disobedience.)
James says:
4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. James 4:4.
Being friends to the world of unbelievers God call adultery. Pretty strong words.
Tell me, what's it called when a man betrothed to a woman loves another woman the same way his marital bride? It's called adultery.
God's love is Holy and He gives His love to a holy people. We commit adultery when we give holy love to an unholy people.
Love not the world.
Don't even pray for the world. Jesus didn't (John 17:9).
I didn't say be friends with the world. But one must obey the teachings of Jesus and Paul. I shared those teachings in my prior post. Those teachings are Gods will.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
The good thing is I am obedient to the Word and its clear precepts and commands.
Everyone else must work out their own salvation and I'm glad I have worked out mine while others are still trying to obey the milk of the word.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
Not replacement.
"But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 See then the kindness and severity of God: to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; for otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in; for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I do not want you, brothers and sisters, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; 26 and so all Israel will be saved;"
Notice in the reading here that the root is Abraham and the other patriarchs. The branches broken off are the Jews who did not believe in Christ. The branches grafted in are the believing Gentiles. What were they grafted into? Into Israel! There is no Jew or Gentile anymore, because the only distinction today is believer or non-believer. If you believe, you are part of Israel. If you do not believe, then you are not part of Israel. There is no replacement, there is only Christ.
Christ is the fulfillment of the covenant with Abraham, and we are partakers in that covenant because we have been grafted in as recipients of the blessing in Christ.
101G
Well-known member
GINOLJC, to all,
there is no Replacement of anyone, but a fulfillment of all things. the new covenant is a covenant of all people. not just with Israel only, NO, but with the "HOUSE", and not "TRIBES" of Israel. Jeremiah 31:31 "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:" Jeremiah 31:32 "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:"
Isaiah 2:2 "And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it."
Mark 11:17 "And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves." and it is written, Isaiah 56:7 "Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people."
so, it's no replacement, but a fulfillment of all people. Genesis 17:4 "As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations." Genesis 17:5 "Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee." Genesis 17:6 "And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee."
101G.
there is no Replacement of anyone, but a fulfillment of all things. the new covenant is a covenant of all people. not just with Israel only, NO, but with the "HOUSE", and not "TRIBES" of Israel. Jeremiah 31:31 "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:" Jeremiah 31:32 "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:"
Isaiah 2:2 "And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it."
Mark 11:17 "And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves." and it is written, Isaiah 56:7 "Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people."
so, it's no replacement, but a fulfillment of all people. Genesis 17:4 "As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations." Genesis 17:5 "Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee." Genesis 17:6 "And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee."
101G.
Do you mean obedient to Jesus as the word or the bible as the word? Few on earth knows what Jesus actually teaches.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
In the Abrahamic Covenant there is no requirement for "faith" in those in covenant. So, their being in covenant is founded on God's promises, not whether they have faith to be in covenant let alone remain in covenant.
Now, read the following carefully, and if possible, with a Jewish mindset for Paul wrote to Jewish Christians at Rome:
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom. 11:26–27.
First, who's ungodliness is the Deliverer "turning away?" Jews or Gentiles?
Well, Paul says, from Jacob (Israel.) Not Gentiles. God made no covenant with Gentiles.
Second, Paul says, and so all Israel shall be saved." He doesn't say Israel will come to accept Jesus as their Messiah, but merely "all Israel shall be saved." EVERY Hebrew and Jew who had been born since the Abrahamic Covenant will be saved if they were in covenant for that is the basis of God saving Israel, not based on some requirement of "faith." God saves all Israel based on covenant promises to save. This explains Abraham's seed in the millions and millions, like the sand on the seashore, or the stars in the heaven. Innumerable. That's a lot of people, a great cloud of witnesses.
Third, God made no covenant with Gentiles. All there is are prophecies of what God was going to do and the fact of Gentiles coming to Jerusalem to worship God led by Israel. But no covenant. One way to look at it is Israel's cup running over and Gentiles just happen to be on the planet and close enough for God's salvation to brush up against their sinful lives. As a Gentile, this should make you eternally grateful Salvation is of the Jews for their salvation to rub off of them and on you and others. But God made no covenant with Gentiles.
You're missing the true context when you try, actually, DO interpret the New Covenant Scriptures written by Jewish Christians to and for Jewish Christians in Israel and Asia Minor where Jewish Churches were founded by Jews, first from those who went back to their homes in Gentile lands after the Feast of Harvests and shared Jesus with their Jewish synagogue brethren, and Jewish Christians that fled persecution by the non-Christian Judaizers in Acts 8. But that wasn't the only persecution God sent to scatter His message to His covenant people of twelve tribes about Jesus Israel's Messiah.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Few on earth that call themselves [Gentile] Christian actually obeys Jesus. Period.
Take the words of the Holy Spirit in 2 Peter 2:4.
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Pete 2:4.
I read that the angels that sinned [against God] are 'locked up,' do you?
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