Not yet-They live on earth right now. Rev 12:9--When Jesus leads Gods armies to earth at Rev 19:11-Then satan and his angels will be thrown into the abyss for 1000 years. Rev 20:1-3- then loosed for a little while( to test the faith of the resurrected ones) Then destroyed in the lake of fire.
What is the New Covenant?
- Thread starter civic
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jeremiah1five
Well-known member
If I were to cut up the Greek you'd find that it is "past-tense" and it has already happen.
That is absurd. Is death no more=No, Is satan destroyed=No. You best look again.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Peter 2:4.
"That sinned" is past tense. NOT "will sin."
"Cast them down to hell" is past tense.
"Delivered" is past tense.
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Jude 6.
"Kept not" is past tense.
"Left their habitation" is past tense.
The angels that sinned [past tense] are locked up and are not loose on the planet.
Not according to revelation which occurs in these last days. Peter must have understood that is satan and his angels destination, after Armageddon occurs. For now they live on this earth.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Again, Peter's words and Jude's words are in the past tense. The angels that sinned are locked up.
But since medieval times and through false doctrine and understanding the Gentile Church has developed an elaborate belief-system in which they have brought in concepts like "Satan" and "devils" and "demons" and personalized them as real angels or entities of angels, or even a whole new batch of being not mentioned in the Old Testament and made them the villain against man and God, a sort of yin and yang, or dualism about these misunderstood things. In the Old Testament Israel never dealt with these things the Gentile Church has made up about evil and evil happenings and if you know anything you should know that if there is no precedent in the Old Testament then there is no reality in the New Testament. There are no "Satan's" or "devils" or "demons" existing today. God said they are all locked up. So, if these things were made up by the Gentile Church beginning around medieval times, and Israel never dealt with these things in their history, and these words where you find them in both OT and NT are written as "adjective" and not personal pronouns, then something else is going on that the Gentile Church has missed through omission or missed through ignorance for God says the angels that sinned [past tense] are locked up.
Me, I accept the Scripture as written and these statements by both Peter and Jude and Isaiah are in the past tense. It would be grammatically and doctrinally erroneous to conclude otherwise. But the Gentile Church is so ingrained themselves in this false theology that when Christ comes, He will sort this out and rebuke the Gentile Church for being carried away by these dumb and false idols.
If they were locked up then they couldn't have fought in the war in heaven which occurred in 1914 according to Daniels prophecy. Rev 12 assures they fought in that war.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
You are correct. They didn't fight in any war in 1914.
Man did.
Yes-Rev 6:1= the war in heaven, 6:2-Jesus receives his crown. Gods kingdom rule takes over in heaven. Satan and his angels booted out to the earth, never allowed back in. He came like a devouring lion, angry, knowing his time is short-filled men's hearts with hatred to disguise his real plan by starting ww1--To stop the preaching work which had begun. It did stop until 1919 then resumed.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
Yes, there was faith required of Abraham. It was his trust in God's promises that made his faith alive (complete) and was counted as righteousness (James 2:22).
Yes, ungodliness will be turned away from Jacob (Israel) in the New Covenant that God will make (through Christ). Yet, who is Israel? Israel was first the new name given to Jacob. But then it became the name given to those who were descendants of Jacob (the nation of Israel). But then Jesus is call Israel (Hos 11:1, Matt 2:14-15). And today, Israel is all those who believe in Christ (not those who are descended physically from Jacob) because those who do not believe in Jesus are cut off from Israel, and those who do believe in Jesus are grafted into Israel.
There will be a vast majority of the Jews who go to Hell, just like the vast majority of Gentiles will go to Hell (Rom 11:13-15). Abraham's seed being so numerous is in the Gentiles being grafted in.
God's grace does not "spill over" and "brush against" the Gentiles. God's plan was always that the Gentiles would be brought into the faith through Christ, as He promised that "all nations would be blessed" through the One who would crush Satan's head. Yes, much of the NT Scriptures were written to Jewish congregations, but as many of them say, there is no longer any Jew or Gentile as far as the promise of God is concerned. All are equally partakers in God's goodness, mercy, and forgiveness as long as they all come to God in faith.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
James is referencing Abraham up on the Mount with Isaac, not the Abrahamic Covenant described in Genesis 17. It was a personal test. And both God and Abraham were being tested.
Scripture please. I deal in Scripture to inform my beliefs.
As the stars in the heavens God tells Abraham. As the sand on the seashore God tells Abraham. Seems to me that is a great, great number, maybe all the Jews in covenant born.
The "nations" and "kings" that "come out of THEE" are the descendants of Ishmael and Esau. They "came out of thee" Abraham.)
Gentiles do not come from the loins of Abraham.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
God was not tested (Matt 4:7, Deut 6:16). And Abraham exhibited his faith in leaving Ur, in going where God sent him, in sacrificing Issac, and in many other ways. The Abrahamic covenant began in Gen 12, not 17, and if you notice, the very first thing God did is tell Abram to do something and Abram did it.
Rom 11:16-36 says that the lump or root is Israel. Branches from that root are broken off if they do not believe in Jesus (vs 20), and others were grafted in in their place (vs 19-21). And the native branches can be grafted back in if they turn to belief, and the wild branches can be cut back off if they turn to unbelief (vs 23-24). But the lump that started was Israel, and the branches that are grafted in become part of Israel.
There are many, many more who are children of Abraham through faith (Gentiles) than there are biological children of Abraham.
They do in faith. Abraham is the father of our faith, and it is through faith that we come back to God through Christ (Gal 3:6-9). There were kings and nations in Issac also (12 nations, and kings of nations (David, Solomon, etc.)). Ishmael and Esau were nations according to the flesh, but the descendants of Abraham are counted based on faith.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
That's fine. I agree. But there was no covenant yet.
The covenant was established in Genesis 17.
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. Gen. 17:7.
The language is clear. God establishes covenant with Abraham in Genesis 17 and as a sign He commanded circumcision.
This doesn't describe any covenant God made with Gentiles. God made NO covenant with Gentiles nor to any Gentile and their seed as He did with Abraham and his seed: the children of Israel/Jacob. It's a Jewish covenant. It is not a nGentile covenant.
There is no requirement for "faith" in the Abrahamic Covenant. But there is a requirement for circumcision.
God made no covenant with Gentiles.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
Gen 12:1-3
"Now the Lord said to Abram,
Go from your country,
And from your relatives
And from your father’s house,
To the land which I will show you;
2 And I will make you into a great nation,
And I will bless you,
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing;
3 And I will bless those who bless you,
And the one who curses you I will curse.
And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed.”
4 So Abram went away as the Lord had spoken to him; and Lot went with him. Now Abram was seventy-five years old when he departed from Haran. 5 Abram took his wife Sarai and his nephew Lot, and all their possessions which they had accumulated, and the people which they had acquired in Haran, and they set out for the land of Canaan; so they came to the land of Canaan."
Does this use the term "covenant"? No. Is this covenant language? Yes.
This was the beginning of the covenant that God made with Abraham. The covenant was made "formal" in Gen 17, but was first established in Gen 12.
There is no such thing as a Gentile under the New Covenant. The Gentiles are grafted into Israel, and so are beneficiaries (co-heirs) with the Jews (which terminology also ceases to exist under the New Covenant (Gal 3:28).
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Here are several examples of covenant and covenant language:
9 And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you; Gen. 9:9.
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. Gen. 17:7–8.
5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: Ex. 19:5.
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD,
That I will make a new covenant
With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers
In the day that I took them by the hand
To bring them out of the land of Egypt;
Which my covenant they brake,
Although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts,
And write it in their hearts;
And will be their God,
And they shall be my people.
Jer. 31:31–33.
God states a covenant with covenant language as above. Your offering in Genesis 12 is not a covenant nor does it have covenant language.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
Covenant language includes instructions to do the things God commands, and rewards and/or punishments for doing/not doing what is commanded. In Gen 12, God said go, and if you do I will give you the land to which you go. It does not say "covenant", but the covenant is there. It does not say "if/then", but the condition is there. A covenant does not require the word covenant to be a binding agreement.
civic
Well-known member
The prophet Jeremiah also predicted the New Covenant. “‘The day will come,’ says the Lord, ‘when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah. . . . But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel on that day,’ says the Lord. ‘I will put my law in their minds, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people’” (Jeremiah 31:31, 33). Jesus Christ came to fulfill the Law of Moses (Matthew 5:17) and to establish the New Covenant between God and His people. The Old Covenant was written in stone, but the New Covenant is written on hearts. Entering the New Covenant is made possible only by faith in Christ, who shed His blood to take away the sins of the world (John 1:29). Luke 22:20 relates how Jesus, at the Last Supper, takes the cup and says, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood” (ESV).
The New Covenant is also mentioned in Ezekiel 36:26–27, “I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.” Ezekiel lists several aspects of the New Covenant here: a new heart, a new spirit, the indwelling Holy Spirit, and true holiness. The Mosaic Law could provide none of these things (see Romans 3:20).
The New Covenant was originally given to Israel and includes a promise of fruitfulness, blessing, and a peaceful existence in the Promised Land. In Ezekiel 36:28–30 God says, “Then you will live in the land I gave your ancestors; you will be my people, and I will be your God. . . . I will call for the grain and make it plentiful and will not bring famine upon you. I will increase the fruit of the trees and the crops of the field, so that you will no longer suffer disgrace among the nations because of famine.” Deuteronomy 30:1–5 contains similar promises related to Israel under the New Covenant. After the resurrection of Christ, God in His grace brought the Gentiles into the blessing of the New Covenant, too (Acts 10; Ephesians 2:13–14). The fulfillment of the New Covenant will be seen in two places: on earth during the Millennial Kingdom, and in heaven for all eternity.
We are no longer under the Law but under grace (Romans 6:14–15). The Old Covenant has served its purpose, and it has been replaced by “a better covenant” (Hebrews 7:22). “In fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises” (Hebrews 8:6).
Under the New Covenant, we are given the opportunity to receive salvation as a free gift (Ephesians 2:8–9). Our responsibility is to exercise faith in Christ, the One who fulfilled the Law on our behalf and brought an end to the Law’s sacrifices through His own sacrificial death. Through the life-giving Holy Spirit who lives in all believers (Romans 8:9–11), we share in the inheritance of Christ and enjoy a permanent, unbroken relationship with God (Hebrews 9:15).got ?
hope this helps !!!
The New Covenant is also mentioned in Ezekiel 36:26–27, “I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.” Ezekiel lists several aspects of the New Covenant here: a new heart, a new spirit, the indwelling Holy Spirit, and true holiness. The Mosaic Law could provide none of these things (see Romans 3:20).
The New Covenant was originally given to Israel and includes a promise of fruitfulness, blessing, and a peaceful existence in the Promised Land. In Ezekiel 36:28–30 God says, “Then you will live in the land I gave your ancestors; you will be my people, and I will be your God. . . . I will call for the grain and make it plentiful and will not bring famine upon you. I will increase the fruit of the trees and the crops of the field, so that you will no longer suffer disgrace among the nations because of famine.” Deuteronomy 30:1–5 contains similar promises related to Israel under the New Covenant. After the resurrection of Christ, God in His grace brought the Gentiles into the blessing of the New Covenant, too (Acts 10; Ephesians 2:13–14). The fulfillment of the New Covenant will be seen in two places: on earth during the Millennial Kingdom, and in heaven for all eternity.
We are no longer under the Law but under grace (Romans 6:14–15). The Old Covenant has served its purpose, and it has been replaced by “a better covenant” (Hebrews 7:22). “In fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises” (Hebrews 8:6).
Under the New Covenant, we are given the opportunity to receive salvation as a free gift (Ephesians 2:8–9). Our responsibility is to exercise faith in Christ, the One who fulfilled the Law on our behalf and brought an end to the Law’s sacrifices through His own sacrificial death. Through the life-giving Holy Spirit who lives in all believers (Romans 8:9–11), we share in the inheritance of Christ and enjoy a permanent, unbroken relationship with God (Hebrews 9:15).got ?
hope this helps !!!
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
In every covenant in Scripture the word covenant describes a covenant being made by God.
It is stated as a covenant so that readers like you do not make the mistake.
At least Hebrews didn't make the mistake. Gentiles do.
Merely commanding Abram to go somewhere is not a covenant.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
It was not just a command. It was a command with a promise of blessing if the command was obeyed. It was FORMALIZED as a covenant in Gen 17, but it was still a covenant in Gen 12.
But in all of this we digress from the point. There most certainly was requirement for faith in Abram/Abraham from the very beginning of the covenant God made with him. Even if it started in Gen 17, there were commands and promises, and curses if the covenant was not upheld.
And the Gentiles have been grafted in into Israel in the covenant God made through Christ. There is no Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male or female in regards to how one is saved, and who can come to Christ for salvation.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Stealing a covenant God made with the Jews is theft and is a sin.
God made no covenant with Gentiles. The sign OF THE COVENANT WAS CIRCUMCISION and NO GENTILE were circumcised.
So, no circumcision, NO COVENANT.
To insert Gentiles in a Jewish Covenant is bad theology and has no Scriptural support.
Try again.
