What is the New Covenant?

jeremiah1five said:
Stealing a covenant God made with the Jews is theft and is a sin.
God made no covenant with Gentiles. The sign OF THE COVENANT WAS CIRCUMCISION and NO GENTILE were circumcised.
So, no circumcision, NO COVENANT.
To insert Gentiles in a Jewish Covenant is bad theology and has no Scriptural support.
Try again.
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LOL, it is not theft if it is given openly.
Acts 11:16-17 - "And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 Therefore, if God gave them [Gentiles] the same gift as He also gave to us [Jews] after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God’s way?”"
God gave the Holy Spirit and salvation to the Gentiles in exactly the same way He gave them to the Jews.
He grafted Gentiles into Israel, and circumcised our hearts, exactly the same way He does the Jews today (Rom 11:11-36).
Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision (in the flesh) means anything (Gal 5:2-6). What matters is the circumcision of the heart (Col 2:11-14).
The sign of the OC was circumcision in the flesh of the foreskin. But there is no matching sign of the NC.
 
Doug Brents said:
LOL, it is not theft if it is given openly.
Acts 11:16-17 - "And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 Therefore, if God gave them [Gentiles] the same gift as He also gave to us [Jews] after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God’s way?”"
God gave the Holy Spirit and salvation to the Gentiles in exactly the same way He gave them to the Jews.
He grafted Gentiles into Israel, and circumcised our hearts, exactly the same way He does the Jews today (Rom 11:11-36).
Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision (in the flesh) means anything (Gal 5:2-6). What matters is the circumcision of the heart (Col 2:11-14).
The sign of the OC was circumcision in the flesh of the foreskin. But there is no matching sign of the NC.
Click to expand...
The New Covenant was made with God and the House of Israel and the House of Judah.
There are no Gentiles in this covenant.
None.
God is saving Gentiles without covenant otherwise if God DID make covenant with Gentiles like He did with Israel there would be problems. But God has chosen the family line in which to make His covenant.
God made no covenant with Gentiles.
There's nothing in Scripture that says He did. It's a Jewish Covenant and Jesus is a circumcised Jewish Messiah.
Get over it.
 
jeremiah1five said:
The New Covenant was made with God and the House of Israel and the House of Judah.
There are no Gentiles in this covenant.
None.
God is saving Gentiles without covenant otherwise if God DID make covenant with Gentiles like He did with Israel there would be problems. But God has chosen the family line in which to make His covenant.
God made no covenant with Gentiles.
There's nothing in Scripture that says He did. It's a Jewish Covenant and Jesus is a circumcised Jewish Messiah.
Get over it.
Click to expand...
ROTFL, I'm sorry, but that is just "fall on the floor" funny!

Read the Scriptures in post#121, and below, for yourself. Read what the Scriptures say, not your internal commentary on them. What do they say?

Jesus said in Matt 16:18 that on Peter's confession (that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God) He would build His "Church".
What is the "Church"?
"Church" comes from the word Ekklisía with means "to be called out".
The Church is those who have been called out of the world to Christ. They are the ones with whom the New Covenant is made. The Church is made up of all those who acknowledge the fact that Jesus is the savior of the World (the Christ or Messiah), and that He is the Son of God (God in the flesh). Jews who make that confession become parts of the Church, also called the Body of Christ. Jews who do not acknowledge Jesus as the Messiah will be cut off from the Israelite nation (Rom 11:20) and are not part of the Church, nor are they part of Israel any longer (although they can be grafted back in if they do not continue in their unbelief (Rom 11:23)). Any Gentiles who acknowledge Jesus as the Messiah are grafted into Israel as if they were born Jews, and become part of the Church (Rom 11:17). Remember what John (the Baptist) said in Matt 3:9, that "do not assume that you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father’; for I tell you that God is able, from these stones, to raise up children for Abraham." The Gentiles are the "stones" that God has raised up to be children of Abraham. Being Abraham's children (Jews) is meaningless in the New Covenant. It is faith in Jesus that matters, not lineage or ancestry.
 
Doug Brents said:
ROTFL, I'm sorry, but that is just "fall on the floor" funny!

Read the Scriptures in post#121, and below, for yourself. Read what the Scriptures say, not your internal commentary on them. What do they say?

Jesus said in Matt 16:18 that on Peter's confession (that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God) He would build His "Church".
What is the "Church"?
"Church" comes from the word Ekklisía with means "to be called out".
The Church is those who have been called out of the world to Christ. They are the ones with whom the New Covenant is made. The Church is made up of all those who acknowledge the fact that Jesus is the savior of the World (the Christ or Messiah), and that He is the Son of God (God in the flesh). Jews who make that confession become parts of the Church, also called the Body of Christ. Jews who do not acknowledge Jesus as the Messiah will be cut off from the Israelite nation (Rom 11:20) and are not part of the Church, nor are they part of Israel any longer (although they can be grafted back in if they do not continue in their unbelief (Rom 11:23)). Any Gentiles who acknowledge Jesus as the Messiah are grafted into Israel as if they were born Jews, and become part of the Church (Rom 11:17). Remember what John (the Baptist) said in Matt 3:9, that "do not assume that you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father’; for I tell you that God is able, from these stones, to raise up children for Abraham." The Gentiles are the "stones" that God has raised up to be children of Abraham. Being Abraham's children (Jews) is meaningless in the New Covenant. It is faith in Jesus that matters, not lineage or ancestry.
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The original Church "called out of Egypt" is Israel. Over 3 million Jews delivered by God, given covenant - no Gentiles - and identified as the "Great Congregation" in Scripture.
Talk about ROFL!
 
jeremiah1five said:
The original Church "called out of Egypt" is Israel. Over 3 million Jews delivered by God, given covenant - no Gentiles - and identified as the "Great Congregation" in Scripture.
Talk about ROFL!
Click to expand...
Yes, Abraham was the first member of the Church under the Old Covenant. But under the NEW Covenant, the Gentiles are brought into the Church as full and complete members with the Jews, because there is not difference between them spiritually any more.
 
Doug Brents said:
Yes, Abraham was the first member of the Church under the Old Covenant. But under the NEW Covenant, the Gentiles are brought into the Church as full and complete members with the Jews, because there is not difference between them spiritually any more.
Click to expand...
Read the New Covenant prophecy.
There are NO GENTILES mentioned as part of this New Covenant:

31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD,
That I will make a new covenant
With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers
In the day that I took them by the hand
To bring them out of the land of Egypt;
Which my covenant they brake,
Although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts,
And write it in their hearts;
And will be their God,
And they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying,
Know the LORD:
For they shall all know me,
From the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
For I will forgive their iniquity,
And I will remember their sin no more.
Jer. 31:31–34.

There is no mention of "faith" or "faith" in Messiah or "accepting Jesus into your heart."
This is supported with what Paul said in Romans 11:

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance
Rom. 11:25–29.

Israel is saved by covenant. Jeremiah and Paul do not mention any requirement of "faith."
Jesus Himself describes a king who wanted to make a marriage supper for his son in Matthew 22.
No doubt Jesus is describing Israel and Gentiles. Israel (as a whole did not come when invited) and Gentiles later invited by the king.
Since God is betrothed to Israel as His Bride, and Israel is the Church Jesus Christ died for, it is only reasonable to conclude the following:
At the Marriage Supper Israel is there by covenant.
Gentiles are there by invitation for God made no covenant with Gentiles. While the "blindness has happened to Israel" for the purpose of bringing in Gentiles (without covenant) and to make Israel jealous, when the Times of the Gentiles are concluded God returns His attention to Israel, removes their blindness, and as Paul said, "ALL ISRAEL shall be saved."
 
jeremiah1five said:
Read the New Covenant prophecy.
There are NO GENTILES mentioned as part of this New Covenant:

31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD,
That I will make a new covenant
With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers
In the day that I took them by the hand
To bring them out of the land of Egypt;
Which my covenant they brake,
Although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts,
And write it in their hearts;
And will be their God,
And they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying,
Know the LORD:
For they shall all know me,
From the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
For I will forgive their iniquity,
And I will remember their sin no more.
Jer. 31:31–34.

There is no mention of "faith" or "faith" in Messiah or "accepting Jesus into your heart."
This is supported with what Paul said in Romans 11:

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance
Rom. 11:25–29.

Israel is saved by covenant. Jeremiah and Paul do not mention any requirement of "faith."
Click to expand...
Faith may not be mentioned in these passages, but it is so much a part of the whole of Scripture, and referenced in Heb 11 and James 2 back to these passages, that it is to be understood as being in these passages.

And again, Gentiles are not mentioned because there are no Gentiles in the New Covenant. Under the Old Covenant the division was between Jew and Gentile. Under the New Covenant the division is between those IN CHRIST (Israel) and those NOT in Christ (not Israel). Any (Jew or Gentile) who believes in Christ is Israel, and to be understood as Israel in Rom 11 as cited in your comment above. Any (Jew or Gentile) who does not believe in Christ is not part of Israel.
jeremiah1five said:
Jesus Himself describes a king who wanted to make a marriage supper for his son in Matthew 22.

No doubt Jesus is describing Israel and Gentiles. Israel (as a whole did not come when invited) and Gentiles later invited by the king.
Since God is betrothed to Israel as His Bride, and Israel is the Church Jesus Christ died for, it is only reasonable to conclude the following:
At the Marriage Supper Israel is there by covenant.
Gentiles are there by invitation for God made no covenant with Gentiles. While the "blindness has happened to Israel" for the purpose of bringing in Gentiles (without covenant) and to make Israel jealous, when the Times of the Gentiles are concluded God returns His attention to Israel, removes their blindness, and as Paul said, "ALL ISRAEL shall be saved."
Click to expand...
Matt 22:1-14 - "Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying, 2 “The kingdom of heaven is like a king who held a wedding feast for his son. 3 And he sent his slaves to call those who had been invited to the wedding feast, and they were unwilling to come. 4 Again he sent other slaves, saying, ‘Tell those who have been invited, “Behold, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and my fattened cattle are all butchered and everything is ready. Come to the wedding feast!”’ 5 But they paid no attention and went their separate ways, one to his own farm, another to his business, 6 and the rest seized his slaves and treated them abusively, and then killed them. 7 Now the king was angry, and he sent his armies and destroyed those murderers and set their city on fire. 8 Then he *said to his slaves, ‘The wedding feast is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy. 9 So go to the main roads, and invite whomever you find there to the wedding feast.’ 10 Those slaves went out into the streets and gathered together all whom they found, both bad and good; and the wedding hall was filled with dinner guests.

11 “But when the king came in to look over the dinner guests, he saw a man there who was not dressed in wedding clothes, 12 and he *said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without wedding clothes?’ And the man was speechless. 13 Then the king said to the servants, ‘Tie his hands and feet, and throw him into the outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth in that place.’ 14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”"
This is an amazing parable.
I believe this is talking about the Church. God rejects the Jews (they didn't listen to the prophets, killed some, and were eventually sent into exile through being conquered in war and Jerusalem burned (vs 7). Then he invited the Gentiles in to the feast (as partners in the covenant that the Jews were kicked out of). But there will be some in the Church who do not belong (not clothed in wedding garments), and will be kicked out of the celebration even though they think they belong.

But this does not impact the fact that the Gentiles are grafted into the covenant of God through Christ. Your continued focus on the Gentiles is misplaced because there is no Gentile in the NT Age. You are correct that there is no covenant that mentions the Gentiles, but there doesn't need to be. The Gentiles are brought in and become part of Israel through Christ, and so it is only Israel who will be saved: Israel, the Church, the believers (all synonymous terms in the NT).
 
Doug Brents said:
Faith may not be mentioned in these passages, but it is so much a part of the whole of Scripture, and referenced in Heb 11 and James 2 back to these passages, that it is to be understood as being in these passages.

And again, Gentiles are not mentioned because there are no Gentiles in the New Covenant. Under the Old Covenant the division was between Jew and Gentile. Under the New Covenant the division is between those IN CHRIST (Israel) and those NOT in Christ (not Israel). Any (Jew or Gentile) who believes in Christ is Israel, and to be understood as Israel in Rom 11 as cited in your comment above. Any (Jew or Gentile) who does not believe in Christ is not part of Israel.

Matt 22:1-14 - "Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying, 2 “The kingdom of heaven is like a king who held a wedding feast for his son. 3 And he sent his slaves to call those who had been invited to the wedding feast, and they were unwilling to come. 4 Again he sent other slaves, saying, ‘Tell those who have been invited, “Behold, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and my fattened cattle are all butchered and everything is ready. Come to the wedding feast!”’ 5 But they paid no attention and went their separate ways, one to his own farm, another to his business, 6 and the rest seized his slaves and treated them abusively, and then killed them. 7 Now the king was angry, and he sent his armies and destroyed those murderers and set their city on fire. 8 Then he *said to his slaves, ‘The wedding feast is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy. 9 So go to the main roads, and invite whomever you find there to the wedding feast.’ 10 Those slaves went out into the streets and gathered together all whom they found, both bad and good; and the wedding hall was filled with dinner guests.

11 “But when the king came in to look over the dinner guests, he saw a man there who was not dressed in wedding clothes, 12 and he *said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without wedding clothes?’ And the man was speechless. 13 Then the king said to the servants, ‘Tie his hands and feet, and throw him into the outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth in that place.’ 14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”"
This is an amazing parable.
I believe this is talking about the Church. God rejects the Jews (they didn't listen to the prophets, killed some, and were eventually sent into exile through being conquered in war and Jerusalem burned (vs 7). Then he invited the Gentiles in to the feast (as partners in the covenant that the Jews were kicked out of). But there will be some in the Church who do not belong (not clothed in wedding garments), and will be kicked out of the celebration even though they think they belong.

But this does not impact the fact that the Gentiles are grafted into the covenant of God through Christ. Your continued focus on the Gentiles is misplaced because there is no Gentile in the NT Age. You are correct that there is no covenant that mentions the Gentiles, but there doesn't need to be. The Gentiles are brought in and become part of Israel through Christ, and so it is only Israel who will be saved: Israel, the Church, the believers (all synonymous terms in the NT).
Click to expand...
There is no covenant or prophecy in which Gentiles are included in the New Covenant along with Israel.
None.
Unless you can show me clearly this point.
The grafting in does not mean joining the covenant, only receiving the blessings.
 
Doug Brents said:
Yes, Abraham was the first member of the Church under the Old Covenant. But under the NEW Covenant, the Gentiles are brought into the Church as full and complete members with the Jews, because there is not difference between them spiritually any more.
Click to expand...
What is this "with the Jews" talk. God is saving Gentiles without a covenant.
So, if God is saving Gentiles without a covenant why all this talk that Gentiles are "WITH" the Jews in their covenant? No such truth to Gentiles being WITH the Jews in THEIR covenant. EDIT by Admin
Talk about thinking more highly than they ought!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
jeremiah1five said:
There is no covenant or prophecy in which Gentiles are included in the New Covenant along with Israel.
None.
Unless you can show me clearly this point.
Click to expand...
Actually there very much is. As I discussed on the very first pages of this thread.

[Isa 42:1-9 LSB] 1 "Behold, My Servant, whom I uphold; My chosen one [in whom] My soul is well-pleased. I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the nations. 2 "He will not cry out or raise [His voice], Nor make His voice heard in the street. 3 "A crushed reed He will not break And a faintly burning wick He will not extinguish; He will bring forth justice in truth. 4 "He will not be faint or crushed Until He has established justice in the earth; And the coastlands will wait expectantly for His law."
5 Thus says the God, Yahweh, Who created the heavens and stretched them out, Who spread out the earth and its offspring, Who gives breath to the people on it And spirit to those who walk in it,
6 "I am Yahweh, I have called You in righteousness; I will also take hold of You by the hand and guard You, And I will give You as a covenant to the people, As a light to the nations, 7 To open blind eyes, To bring out prisoners from the dungeon And those who inhabit darkness from the prison.
8 "I am Yahweh, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another, Nor My praise to graven images. 9 "Behold, the former things have come to pass; Now I declare new things; Before they spring forth I cause you to hear [them]."
Click to expand...
God states he is doing a new thing. He will be setting up a new covenant. He uses two words "people" and "nations". "People" is specifically used of the Jewish people. "Nations" is the word used for gentiles other than Jews. It is stated in the very common form of two separate phrases but each related in subject matter. God's Servant will be given as both a covenant and a light to all the people of the world, both Jew and Gentile.
 
EclipseEventSigns said:
Actually there very much is. As I discussed on the very first pages of this thread.


God states he is doing a new thing. He will be setting up a new covenant. He uses two words "people" and "nations". "People" is specifically used of the Jewish people. "Nations" is the word used for gentiles other than Jews. It is stated in the very common form of two separate phrases but each related in subject matter. God's Servant will be given as both a covenant and a light to all the people of the world, both Jew and Gentile.
Click to expand...
5 By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations. Gen. 10:5.

Strong's [H#1471] "Gentiles" vs 5 = gôy and "nations" gôy, same Hebrew word translated into English as a plural. Defined as:

rarely (shortened) goy, go’-ee; apparently from the same root as <H1465> (gevah) (in the sense of massing); a foreign nation; hence a Gentile; also (figurative) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts:

The word is also used here:

2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: Gen. 12:2.

It's the same Hebrew word all the way even into Exodus. But if God is going to make Abram/Abraham a great "gôy" it cannot mean anything except [a] "massing" (of people) since Gentiles do not come "out of thee" (Abraham), except when you consider that Ishmael's descendants was [a] "massing" (of people/descendants.) Same with Esau. God would make those that come "out of thee" (Abraham) "nations" and "kings." It is also used here in addressing Sarah:

16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her. Gen. 17:16.

So, the context describes how this word is defined. It cannot always mean "a foreign nation; hence a Gentile; also (figurative) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts."
It can merely mean [a] "massing" (of people) as it does in Genesis 10:5 and 12:2 and 17:16.
So, the word "gôy" is used to describe those that are prophesied to "come out of thee" (Abraham) as [a] "massing" when talking about the seed of the free woman, and [a] "massing" and foreign "nation/Gentiles" when talking about the bond woman.
It doesn't necessarily always mean "non-Jew."
 
jeremiah1five said:
.....snip....
It doesn't necessarily always mean "non-Jew."
Click to expand...
Context, context, context. Just because it can mean something (which you want to force into your view) doesn't mean it is that everywhere the word occurs. The term "goyim" in Isaiah 42 clearly means in context "all Gentiles".
42:1 "justice to the nations" - not just to Israel - singular but all nations - plural
42:4 "established justice in the earth" - not just Israel
42:5 "earth and it's offspring", "breath to the people"
42:10 "from the end of the earth", "you coastlands"
42:11 "wilderness and its cities"
42:11 "villages where Kedar inhabits" - that's not in Israel
"inhabitants of Sela" - not Israel

All throughout the context is all the nations of the earth. It's very clear.
The new covenant is being promised to Israel AND Gentiles. There's no way to explain it away.
 
EclipseEventSigns said:
Context, context, context. Just because it can mean something (which you want to force into your view) doesn't mean it is that everywhere the word occurs. The term "goyim" in Isaiah 42 clearly means in context "all Gentiles".
42:1 "justice to the nations" - not just to Israel - singular but all nations - plural
Click to expand...
The all "nations" can also mean the descendants of Ishmael of whom it was said God would make him a great "nation."
Or, to Sarah whom God said her offspring would be a great "nation."
Or Rebekah to whom God said "two NATIONS are in your womb."
EclipseEventSigns said:
42:4 "established justice in the earth" - not just Israel
42:5 "earth and it's offspring", "breath to the people"
42:10 "from the end of the earth", "you coastlands"
42:11 "wilderness and its cities"
42:11 "villages where Kedar inhabits" - that's not in Israel
"inhabitants of Sela" - not Israel

All throughout the context is all the nations of the earth. It's very clear.
The new covenant is being promised to Israel AND Gentiles. There's no way to explain it away.
Click to expand...
So, I'll leave it there having PROVED my point that "goy" (nations) does not always mean Gentiles.
Spank you very much!
 
civic said:
The New Covenant is the promise that God will forgive sin and restore fellowship with those whose hearts are turned toward Him.
Click to expand...

Civic,

Isn't it true that the Holy One of Israel has always promised to forgive the sins of the repentant? (those who are turned toward Him)

Lev. 4: 31 And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat is taken away from off the sacrifice of peace offerings; and the priest shall burn it upon the altar for a sweet savour unto the LORD; and the priest shall make an atonement for him, and it shall be forgiven him.

Isn't the New Covenant a change in the "Manner" in which HE forgives the Transgression?

It's still the Same Christ, Yes?
 
Studyman said:
Civic,

Isn't it true that the Holy One of Israel has always promised to forgive the sins of the repentant? (those who are turned toward Him)

Lev. 4: 31 And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat is taken away from off the sacrifice of peace offerings; and the priest shall burn it upon the altar for a sweet savour unto the LORD; and the priest shall make an atonement for him, and it shall be forgiven him.

Isn't the New Covenant a change in the "Manner" in which HE forgives the Transgression?

It's still the Same Christ, Yes?
Click to expand...
He is the New Covenant and the fulfillment of the O.C. It all pointed to Him.
 

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