What is the difference between the Rapture and the Second Coming?

Part 53: The Church in the Wilderness — The Prophesied Church — The Church of the Mystery
by Pastor J. C. O'Hair




The seventh chapter of Acts records Stephen’s message to Israel in Jerusalem. In reviewing Israel’s history Stephen made reference to “the Church in the wilderness.”

“THIS IS HE, THAT WAS IN THE CHURCH IN THE WILDERNESS WITH THE ANGEL WHICH SPAKE TO HIM IN THE MOUNT SINAI, AND WITH OUR FATHERS: WHO RECEIVED THE LIVELY ORACLES TO GIVE UNTO US.” Acts 7:38.

Then in Hebrews 2:12 we find a fulfillment of the prophecy of Psalm 22:22 concerning God’s Church or Congregation. Note first, Psalm 22:22 and then, Hebrews 2:12.

“I will declare Thy name unto My brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise Thee.”

“I WILL DECLARE THY NAME UNTO MY BRETHREN, IN THE MIDST OF THE CHURCH WILL I SING PRAISE UNTO THEE.”

Now, by way of comparison, read Colossians 1:24 to 26 and Ephesians 3:4 to 6

“WHO NOW REJOICE IN MY SUFFERINGS FOR YOU, AND FILL UP THAT WHICH IS BEHIND OF THE AFFLICTIONS OF CHRIST IN MY FLESH FOR HIS BODY’S SAKE, WHICH IS THE CHURCH: WHEREOF I AM MADE A MINISTER, ACCORDING TO THE DISPENSATION OF GOD WHICH IS GIVEN TO ME FOR YOU, TO FULFIL THE WORD OF GOD; EVEN THE MYSTERY WHICH HATH BEEN HID FROM AGES AND FROM GENERATIONS, BUT NOW IS MADE MANIFEST TO HIS SAINTS.”

“Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto His holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellow-heirs, and of the same (Joint) Body, and partakers of His promise in Christ by the gospel.”

Before we consider these three “CHURCHES” let us read Acts 19:32, 37, 39 and 41.

“Some therefore cried one thing, and some another; for the assembly was confused; and the more part knew not wherefore they were come together.”

“For ye have brought hither these men, which are neither robbers of churches, nor yet blasphemers of your goddess.”

“But if ye enquire any thing concerning other matters, it shall be determined in a lawful assembly.”

“And when he had spoken, he dismissed the assembly.”

The disciples of Christ were in the midst of an angry mob of idolatrous heathen, in the theatre at Ephesus. The mob was called “an assembly.” The Greek word translated “assembly” is “ekklesia.” You and I have just as much right to call that mob of heathen “a church” as the translators had to call God’s company of saints “a church.”

The word “church” or “churches” is found about 117 times in the New Testament Scriptures. With the single exception of Acts 19:37, every time the word “church” is found in the Bible the Greek word is, “ekklesia.” Note the expression, ‘`robbers of churches,” in Acts 19:37. This expression is translated from two Greek words: “sulao” meaning “to rob,” and “heiron,” meaning “temple.” More than fifty times in the New Testament Scriptures the temple at Jerusalem is in the Greek “heiron.”

I am sure then that you would like to join with me in asking the translators why they have left us in such confusion. Why did they translate “heiron,” “churches”?

Why did they translate “ekklesia” three times “assembly” in Acts 19, and 116 times “church”? Where did they get such a word as “church”? “Ekklesia” should never have been translated “church.”

The word “church” is a form of “Kurios.” “Kurios” is translated many, many times “Lord.” So see how indefinite and vague is the translation of “Ekkesia,” “of the Lord” To be sure “the assembly” at Ephesus in the theatre was “of the devil,” but it was an “ekkesia.” The “ekkesia” described in Ephesians 1:22 and 23 is “of the Lord.” Note these verses

“AND HATH PUT ALL THINGS UNDER HIS FEET, AND GAVE HIM TO BE HEAD OVER ALL THINGS TO THE CHURCH, WHICH IS HIS BODY, THE FULNESS OF HIM THAT FILLETH ALL IN ALL.”

“Ekklesia” is from the Greek “kaleo,” “call,” “ek,” “out.” “The Church” means “the called-out.”

Now note I Timothy 3:15 and 16

“But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in THE HOUSE OF GOD, which is THE CHURCH OF THE LIVING GOD, THE PILLAR AND GROUND OF THE TRUTH. And without controversy great is the mystery.”

Here we read of “the Church of the living God,” “the Ekklesia of the living God,” “the pillar and ground of the truth,” “the House of God,” “the mystery.” There is no reference here to an assembly-hall or meeting place. “The House of God” is a building made of human beings. “The Church of God,” during this present Divine economy, is called, “the Body of Christ,” “the fulness of Christ.”

You and I know perfectly well that no building of stone, brick, or wood, could be the fulness of Christ. Think of the utter confusion of the religious world today. A meeting-place is called “a church.” The majority of the people who attend the meetings in the building, as well as the preacher, may be unsaved. The name “church,” “of the Lord,” is misleading when applied to unsaved human beings gathered in a so-called “church” building. Many people seem to associate the building in some way with God, though God may have nothing to do with it.

The short version brother.

AWESOME = @Johann: "I am sure then that you would like to join with me in asking the translators why they have left us in such confusion.
Why did they translate “heiron,” “churches”?

You are 100% on target with "ekklessia" = called out assembly


3x AWESOME =

You and I know perfectly well that no building of stone, brick, or wood, could be the fulness of Christ. Think of the utter confusion of the religious world today. A meeting-place is called “a church.” The majority of the people who attend the meetings in the building, as well as the preacher, may be unsaved. The name “church,” “of the Lord,” is misleading when applied to unsaved human beings gathered in a so-called “church” building. Many people seem to associate the building in some way with God, though God may have nothing to do with it.


The 'Temple' is 'herion' because it is just a building and not the 'ekklessia' of God
 
AWESOME = @Johann: "I am sure then that you would like to join with me in asking the translators why they have left us in such confusion.
Why did they translate “heiron,” “churches”?

You are 100% on target with "ekklessia" = called out assembly


3x AWESOME =



The 'Temple' is 'herion' because it is just a building and not the 'ekklessia' of God
1Co_3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

1Co_3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

1Co_6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

2Co_6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

God bless brother-I am still learning so go easy if you should find error-that is not intentional.
J.
 
Yup - and 2 Thess 2:7 seems to indicate that before all hell breaks loose the one that resists has to be taken out. so the 1 Thess 4:17 "Caught away" seems to fit, since if the Holy Spirit (Who withholds) is taken out, then we who are indwelled by the Holy Spirit would go also.

The "Left Behind" fiction presented the "Tribulation force" fantasy, where people were still getting "Saved" in the tribulation, and the "Antichrist" was too stupid to know what was going on. But if the Holy Spirit is GONE, then that wouldn't make any sense. (they ran out of story before they ran out of books. I liked the "Christ Clone Trilogy" by Beausigneur, better, as "religious fiction" goes.

PERSONALLY, I expect that nobody "disappears" in the "Rapture". I expect we'll just die physically, and Go to Him in Spirit with our new bodies (Transformed), and the world will have to explain why millions of people suddenly "just died simultaneously" without a cause. And, of course there'd be the "Cleanup". The Media will have a field day!!!!

Of Course, my attitude about "Eschatology" is that it's all nothing but "Rank Speculation" anyway, so I'll just take it as it comes. HEY!!! I may well just die naturally (like the doctors told me that I might back in 1992 - they gave me till 2004 so the joke's on them).

The Holy Spirit never left the building and has no intention of leaving His Creation = 1 Kings 8:27

There are two scriptural Suitors who could be the 'He' of 2 Thess 2:7
a.) the Holy Spirit
b.) Michael the Arch angel who stands watch over Israel = Michael is the only Angel powerful enough to stand against Satan
As powerful as Michael is, he dare not speak an accusation against Satan - Jude 1:9

It is IMPOSSIBLE for the "He" to be the Church.
a.) the ekklessia is never referred to as "He"
b.) the ekklessia(Saints) are clearly seen in Revelation going thru the Tribulation
c.) the Holy Spirit will never leave His Saints

Hebrews 13:5-6
Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have.
For He Himself has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.” So we may boldly say:
“The Lord is my helper;
I will not fear.
What can man do to me?”

HOLY SPIRIT wih the Saints in the Great Tribulation = Revelation chapter 12

Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.
Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”
 
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1Co_3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

1Co_3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

1Co_6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

2Co_6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

God bless brother-I am still learning so go easy if you should find error-that is not intentional.
J.
the temple
ναῷ (naō)
Noun - Dative Masculine Singular
Strong's Greek 3485: A temple, a shrine, that part of the temple where God himself resides. From a primary naio; a fane, shrine, temple.

This 'Temple' is not made from hands

Acts ch7
Our fathers had the tabernacle of the Testimony with them in the wilderness. It was constructed exactly as God had directed Moses, according to the pattern he had seen.45And our fathers who received it brought it in with Joshua when they dispossessed the nations God drove out before them. It remained until the time of David,46who found favor in the sight of God and asked to provide a dwelling place for the God of Jacob.o 47But it was Solomon who built the house for Him.

48However, the Most High does not dwell in houses made by human hands. As the prophet says:

49‘Heaven is My throne

and the earth is My footstool.

What kind of house will you build for Me, says the Lord,

or where will My place of repose be?


50Has not My hand made all these things?’
 
The Holy Spirit never left the building and has no intention of leaving His Creation = 1 Kings 8:27

There are two scriptural Suitors who could be the 'He' of 2 Thess 2:7
a.) the Holy Spirit
b.) Michael the Arch angel who stands watch over Israel = Michael is the only Angel powerful enough to stand against Satan

It is IMPOSSIBLE for the "He" to be the Church.
a.) the ekklessia is never referred to as "He"
b.) the ekklessia(Saints) are clearly seen in Revelation going thru the Tribulation
c.) the Holy Spirit will never leave His Saints

IMO, it's Michael. Daniel 12:

“At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then.

If by "arise" it means Michael will enter the battle, he's not much of an archangel, because that's when the great tribulation begins. But the word translated "arise" (or often translated "stand up") can also mean "stand still". In military terms, "stand down". That makes much more sense to me, since that's when all hades breaks loose.
 
1Co_3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

1Co_3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

1Co_6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

2Co_6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

God bless brother-I am still learning so go easy if you should find error-that is not intentional.
J.
Notice how ekklessia is feminine and yet the 'Temple' is masculine.
 
IMO, it's Michael. Daniel 12:

“At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then.

If by "arise" it means Michael will enter the battle, he's not much of an archangel, because that's when the great tribulation begins. But the word translated "arise" (or often translated "stand up") can also mean "stand still". In military terms, "stand down". That makes much more sense to me, since that's when all hades breaks loose.
It certainly seems that way to me as well.

No matter who it is, the Holy Spirit is with us for all Eternity.
 
IMO, it's Michael. Daniel 12:

“At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then.

If by "arise" it means Michael will enter the battle, he's not much of an archangel, because that's when the great tribulation begins. But the word translated "arise" (or often translated "stand up") can also mean "stand still". In military terms, "stand down". That makes much more sense to me, since that's when all hades breaks loose.
i added three scriptures to Post #83
 
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I am very familiar with Hebrew and Koine Greek with the Morphologies brother-no boasting.
So what do you surmise, in the Light of Scripture, is the reason for the ekklessia as feminine and the Temple as masculine?

Which is what i was asking you when i said "NOTICE".
 
So what do you surmise, in the Light of Scripture, is the reason for the ekklessia as feminine and the Temple as masculine?

Which is what i was asking you when i said "NOTICE".
Is this a peiradzo-or a dokimazo kind of question? Just curious. A Sod, Remez, Pardes?
Maybe you can rephrase your question so I can follow your train of thought?
Not being facetious here-as I am kind of tired-12.54 AM in South Africa. And I had a lovely day of fellowship with the saints, you included.
 
Is this a peiradzo-or a dokimazo kind of question? Just curious. A Sod, Remez, Pardes?
Maybe you can rephrase your question so I can follow your train of thought?
Not being facetious here-as I am kind of tired-12.54 AM in South Africa. And I had a lovely day of fellowship with the saints, you included.
Go REST my Brother

As i must leave now as well.

Good Night and and Peaceful Sleep
 
i would like for you and @Johann to review the outline in Post #60 (thanks to Johann) for obvious 'Red Flag' errors(not from Johann).

There are at least 3 statements that are easily shown to be contrary to Scripture and are 'antichrist' in their nature.
Red Flag ( 🇦🇱 ) Statement # 1?:​
The rapture is secret because of how it was revealed – Rom 16:25 = from Post #60

"The rapture is a secret" SEE if this statement matches up correctly with Rom 16:25
"Now to Him that is of Power To Stablish you according to my Gospel, and​
the preaching of Jesus Christ, According to The Revelation of The Mystery,​
Which Was Kept Secret since the world began" (Romans 16:25)​
1) Seems correct, since it was Never revealed "since the world began", Because it was,
until "The Revelation Of The Mystery", "...Hid In God..." (Ephesians 3:9), Right?​

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ!” (online):

2) Was the "Hid In God rapture" revealed in 'Prophecy' In Matthew 24:39-40,
as some think?:​

"And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also​
the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one​
shall be taken, and the other left."​

Clear and Plain meaning of context: "as the flood took them away" in God's
Judgment of Destruction (Genesis 7:21-22), so is the "one [ who ] shall be taken"?

Again, Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ!” (online):

How then is that the same thing as:

3) "The Mystery, Hid In God rapture" Revealed to Paul in:

"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them​
in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the​
Lord. Wherefore Comfort one another with These Words." (1 Thessalonians 4:16)​

Which hermeneutic scholar authorized "reading from one [ heretofore Unrevealed ] context"
and "inserting it into another Different context," thereby changing the meaning Of
God's Truth?

My Bible has nothing about any Destruction [ Never being with The Lord ] that Is
Comforting [ "Ever Being With The Lord!" ], yours?

Amen.
 
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Red Flag Statement # 1?:​

"Now to Him that is of Power To Stablish you according to my Gospel, and​
the preaching of Jesus Christ, According to The Revelation of The Mystery,​
Which Was Kept Secret since the world began" (Romans 16:25)​
1) Seems correct, since it was Never revealed "since the world began", Because it was,
until "The Revelation Of The Mystery", "...Hid In God..." (Ephesians 3:9), Right?​

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ!” (online):

2) Was the "Hid In God rapture" revealed in 'Prophecy' In Matthew 24:39-40,
as some think?:​

"And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also​
the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one​
shall be taken, and the other left."​

Clear and Plain meaning of context: "as the flood took them away" in God's
Judgment of Destruction (Genesis 7:21-22), so is the "one [ who ] shall be taken"?

Again, Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ!” (online):

How then is that the same thing as:

3) "The Mystery, Hid In God rapture" Revealed to Paul in:

"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them​
in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the​
Lord. Wherefore Comfort one another with These Words." (1 Thessalonians 4:16)​

Which hermeneutic scholar authorized "reading from one context" and "inserting it
into another Different context," thereby changing the meaning Of God's Truth?

My Bible has nothing about any Destruction [ Never being with The Lord ] that Is
Comforting [ "Ever Being With The Lord!" ], yours?

Amen.
Reading and listening to BBS I have to agree with you brother.
 
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OK - Read ez ch10

What are you surmising?

Please post the specific scripture that coveys your thoughts - THANK YOU Brother
Ezekiel 10, and following is the story of the Holy Spirit deserting the temple, and returning to heaven, leaving their temple empty and useless spiritually. Similar to when Jesus left in Luke 13:34,35, and again when Jesus was deserted by the Holy Spirit, who had been with him since John's Baptism.
 
Ezekiel 10, and following is the story of the Holy Spirit deserting the temple, and returning to heaven, leaving their temple empty and useless spiritually. Similar to when Jesus left in Luke 13:34,35, and again when Jesus was deserted by the Holy Spirit, who had been with him since John's Baptism.

OK, i thought that was what you were referring to but just wanted to make sure - thank you, Bob

i really like that you also mentioned Luke13:34-35 with is also in Matthew 23:37-39

The only place where the Holy Spirit LEFT was the Temple but not Ezekiel, nor the earth.

This is similiar to when Elijah ran from Jezebel and cried out to God saying: "I alone am left"

1 Kings 19:9-10
And there he went into a cave, and spent the night in that place; and behold, the word of the Lord came to him, and He said to him, “What are you doing here, Elijah?”
So he said, “I have been very zealous for the Lord God of hosts; for the children of Israel have forsaken Your covenant, torn down Your altars, and killed Your prophets with the sword. I alone am left; and they seek to take my life.”

God's presence left the Temple but His Presence never left the earth and NEVER left those who were and are faithful to HIM.

Peace Brother Bob
 
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