'Interpretation' Of Prophecy

[JoshebB]

Again, Jesus said that no one knows except God. All we know is it is in the future. This is why it is said to be imminent. It can happen at ANY TIME, hence imminent. It is hanging there waiting to just happen.

The deception within Dispensational Premillennialism is that Christ's return is NOT imminent. It can't actually happen at any time because a whole bunch of stuff has to happen first. Israel has to regain all its territory. The Jews have to build another temple. Then they have to re-establish the Levitical priesthood and the Mosaic Law, and then they have to re-institute animal sacrifices. There's a big bunch of stuff Dispensationalism teaches will have to happen before Jesus returns. Out of one set of words they preach imminence but then they teach the exact opposite position with a different set of words. If Jesus can come right this minute, then EVERYTHING in this op is wrong.

There is absolutely no way to avoid that blatant contradiction! Either all of the stuff listed in this op has to happen first, and imminence is delayed, or the op is wrong.

So..... I, once again, urge you caution defending someone else's op, especially when that person has not bothered to answer the simplest of op-relevant inquiries.

• Dispensationalism says it teaches salvation by grace through faith and not works but its eschatology inescapably results in the opposite.
• Dispensational Premillennialism teaches the doctrine of imminent return but its eschatology inescapaby necessitates a complete contradiction of that doctrine.
• Dispensationalism is a new and radically different theology that is irreconcilable with core doctrines the Church has held since its inception. Either Dispensational Premillennialism is correct and 2000 years of Christian thought, doctrine, and practice are wrong, or 2000 years of Christian thinking, doctrine, and practice are correct, and the radically different and irreconcilable newcomer is wrong.

Can't be had both ways.




And all I would currently like is an actual direct answer to the one question I have asked. When will the events described in this op happen? Please be as specific as you feel comfortable being. Delay is subterfuge. Attempts to change the topic are subterfuge. Attempts at fallacy are subterfuge.

Dispensational Premillennialists should all be concerned there exist among them people who make predictions they cannot or will not address in a discussion board. Don't post it if you're going to refuse to discuss it.

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

Matt 24:36“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.

I have five words .
EVEN SO COME LORD JESUS . john may have said it first but i sure say it now in these last hours myself .
PARADISE awaits the sheep at the end of our faith

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

Matt 24:36“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.

To the trenches the hour is late and grows later by the hour .
No man knows
but the signs are very clear it is nigh indeed . Could it be at midnight
or maybe at the crowing of the cock ............
BUT WHEN that HOUR COMETH and the DOOR SHUTS
all outside shall wail . the sheep are inside and shall not see the wrath of ALL MIGHTY GOD and of the Lamb .
THEY gonna be rejoicing forever WITH THE KING WHO saved them .

 

[MTMattie]

I have five words .
EVEN SO COME LORD JESUS . john may have said it first but i sure say it now in these last hours myself .
PARADISE awaits the sheep at the end of our faith

Maranatha,

Amen, amen

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

And what i say to one i say to all .
WATCH
for ye KNOW not the HOUR the LORD DO COME .

 

[MTMattie]

And what i say to one i say to all .
WATCH
for ye KNOW not the HOUR the LORD DO COME .

Yes. If Jesus, himself , did not know... with what arrogance does man ask for a date?

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

Yes. If Jesus, himself , did not know... with what arrogance does man ask for a date?

who so ever sets a date
is no one any should have heeded . yet many in times past did this .
And some even after their man missed the date twice
INVENTED what is known as INVESTIGATIVE JUDGMENT . another lie of course
trying to imply MR MILLER had the event right just the location wrong . NOPE , HE SET DATES
is all HE DID .

 

[JoshebB]

Matt 24:36“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.

Have you read the thread, @MTMattie?

I have already addressed Matthew 24:36. Jesus did say no one would know the day or hour but he also said the events he was describing were going to happen in "this generation," the generation of the disciples to whom he was speaking, AND he told them they would be handed over to tribulation. He told them they would see the abomination of desolation and immediately afterward they would see the events, and the "great" tribulation would follow.

I have no idea when what day or hour my car will run out of gas, but it will happen this month.
I have no idea when the local VFW is holding its car show..... but it will happen this month.
No one knows the day or the hour..... but it will come upon this generation (not "that" generation).

It is completely inappropriate to select one verse and ignore everything else Jesus said. I forgot to mention this earlier but Dispensationalism teaches a hermeneutic in which a literal reading of scripture is required. That means they are required to read "this generation" exactly as written....... but they don't do that. They change the "this" to a "that" and then say Jesus was referring to the generation that sees the signs. Jesus plainly stated the disciples to whom he was talking would see the signs. Jesus never mentioned anyone living thousands of years later. As far as Dispensational Premillennialism goes, every event listed in this opening post could occur another millennium from now and eveything written in the op will have absolutely no consequence on ANY of us in this thread.

I cannot even get a direct answer to one of the simplest questions that could ever be asked. You say this stuff is going to happen in the future. Great. When, exactly, will it happen? Next week? Next month? A year from now? A decade from now? A half-century from now? WHEN?

No one knows, according to Matthew 24:36.

That is complete dross.

Revelation 7:13-15
Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?" I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. "For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them.

There are only three places in the entire Bible where the exact phrase "great tribulation" is used and one of them is about those committing adultery with the harlot. The other two explicitly state the disciples go through the great tribulation. Dispensationalism teaches it wrong. ALL the other eschatological viewpoints teach it consistent with scripture. If you sit down with your Bible today and you conscientiously and intentionally read through the book of Revelation, you will find there isn't a single verse in the entire book that explicitly states Jesus is physically on earth prior to chapter 21 and 22. Everything that happens on earth is commanded from heaven and that fact is stated repeatedly throughout the book. That means both premillennial views are incorrect! Chater 21 comes after chapter 20. The coming of Christ (in the new cityof peace) comes after the thousand years of chapter 20.

Read it yourself and read as best you can without all the baggage of your pastors' teachings preaching over your proverbial shoulder. Just read the text exactly as written and do not add anything to it (or take anything away from it). When you get done (realizing what I just said is correct) go back and re-read it again taking a line-by-line approach, critically examining every word exactly as written in its stated context(s).




Jesus did say no one would know the day or the hour, BUT he also said it would happen in this generation AND the disciples to whom he was speaking would see (most of) it. Modern futurism is selective with scripture.

 

[JoshebB]

Yes. If Jesus, himself , did not know... with what arrogance does man ask for a date?

Much less arrogant than those who ignore all that Jesus said in favor of the few verses that support their man-made doctrine.

 

[Grace ambassador]

...@Grace ambassador may be exactly like every other otherwise earnest and sincere Christian who has ever prognosticated about the end times and got it wrong, When will this happen?...

Precious friend, why would I desire to be in 'that category' by answering your question and "getting it wrong"?
Would not that be sinning/displeasing God?

Amen.

 

[MTMattie]

Have you read the thread, @MTMattie?

I merely repeat what Jesus said.

We are cautioned against fortune telling and to even hazard a guess is against what God declares.

Marshall Applewhite got it wrong.

I wont guess because i am told not to.

No one knows the day or the hour..... but it will come upon this generation (not "that" generation).

And what do you think Jesus meant by generation. There have been many a debate over that word.

Go back into genesis ... Genesis 2:4 to be exact... and consider the 6 creation days and 1 of Sabbath rest.

That at most is 168 hours and hardly makes a generation YET look at the following Translations: they were using Generations
in Genesis 2 and did a recap(?) of what transpired in Gen 1

So you need to define the word before using it as Jesus did....

English Standard Version
These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens.

King James Bible
These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

Legacy Standard Bible
These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that Yahweh God made earth and heaven.

American Standard Version
These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that Jehovah God made earth and heaven.

English Revised Version
These are the generations of the heaven and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven.

Webster's Bible Translation
These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens.

World English Bible
This is the history of the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that Yahweh God made the earth and the heavens.

Literal Translations
Literal Standard Version
These [are] the generations of the heavens and of the earth in their being created, in the day of YHWH God’s making the earth and the heavens;

Smith's Literal Translation
These the generations of the heavens and the earth in creating them, in the day of Jehovah God's making the earth and the heavens.

Catholic Translations
Douay-Rheims Bible
These are the generations of the heaven and the earth, when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the heaven and the earth:
Catholic Public Domain Version
These are the generations of heaven and earth, when they were created, in the day when the Lord God made heaven and earth,

New Revised Standard Version
These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created. In the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

Translations from Aramaic
Lamsa Bible
These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the heavens and the earth.

Peshitta Holy Bible Translated
These are the generations of Heaven and of Earth when they were created, in the day that LORD JEHOVAH God made the Heavens and Earth,

OT Translations
JPS Tanakh 1917
These are the generations of the heaven and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven.

Brenton Septuagint Translation
This is the book of the generation of heaven and earth, when they were made, in the day in which the Lord God made the heaven and the earth,

 

[JoshebB]

Precious friend, why would I desire to be in 'that category' by answering your question and "getting it wrong"?
Would not that be sinning/displeasing God?

Amen.

I do not know why you or anyone would desire such a thing, but that is the conclusion evidenced by those who do not answer the question asked. The history of modern futurism is filled with such people. 200 years of modern futurists prognosticating about the future and not a single one of them has ever been correct. NONE. 100% fail rate. If you were such a person you would have lots of company. Yes, it is displeasing to God. That is why I expect an actual answer to the question asked,

When will this happen? Please be as specific as you feel comfortable being.

.....and I will genuinely try to work with whatever answer is posted if the response is an actual answer to the question asked. As it stands the op asserts a bunch of future stuff without informing anyone when any of it might occur, and I have already addressed why that is important (and done so in more than one way). I hope I do not have to unnecessarily repeat myself. I hope the question asked will be answered and we can move forward with the discussion of that answer relevant to this op .


Can you do that?

 

[Johann]

I have already addressed Matthew 24:36. Jesus did say no one would know the day or hour but he also said the events he was describing were going to happen in "this generation," the generation of the disciples to whom he was speaking, AND he told them they would be handed over to tribulation. He told them they would see the abomination of desolation and immediately afterward they would see the events, and the "great" tribulation would follow.

It appears that you are interpreting this passage through a Preterist framework.

J.