What is the difference between the Rapture and the Second Coming?

The above passages are the typical ones used by those who hold to a pre-trib rapture. Just an FYI for the readers. :)
Have you ever taken note of this:

Luke 20
“And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.”

Acts 2
17‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
18And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.
19I will show wonders in heaven above
And signs in the earth beneath:
Blood and fire and vapor of smoke.
20The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.
21And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Shall be saved.’
 
The above passages are the typical ones used by those who hold to a pre-trib rapture. Just an FYI for the readers. :)
The scriptures you have quoted do indeed describe what is known as the rapture, but this event is absolutely at the second coming, when Christ does not touch the earth. Christ at that time takes His church to heaven... The entire church from all ages. The wicked are destroyed and the bodies litter a desolate torn broken planet until their resurrection 1000 years later.
Two resurrections. KJV John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

KJV Revelation 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The two resurrections book end the millennium, during which Satan is bound by circumstances having no one to tempt, and no nations to rule over. The earth spends its 7th millennium as a Sabbath, testing from the heavy burden of man's misuse and abuse, before it is recreated and becomes man's permanent home when the church returns to the earth with their King within the new Jerusalem.
 
There is the rapture, Change .... after that, the 144k rebuild eden paradise with Christ, and will return with Christ during tribulation to comfort most believers - left behind.
 
The rapture idea started with some heretic groups in the 1800s, and then ported over to new age ideology and is commonly called the ascension. Observing how Christians express thoughts towards the rapture, and how New Age people express thoughts towards the ascension revealed it is the same thing.

The second coming, is when Jesus comes back.

Based on comparisons in scripture the rapture is actually a removal of wicked people from the earth. (not a beam me up scotty kind of event) In that light, perhaps there is something prophetic about the mass number of people wanting to be raptured when the teachings urge preparedness for persecution.
 
the rapture is described by Paul as the change... that will happen in a twinkling, in which souls will be restored to their imperishable nature ...

the 144k will meet Christ on the clouds.
 
many will be left behind and undergo trib.
Christ and the 144k, as God's two witnesses, will return and witness to the msny left behind souls

this earth will be forgotten and no one will pass here anymore - for ever - but rats and moles --
esau and those of the evil realm will not be restored to eden paradise in the other reality.
 
Have you ever taken note of this:
How about this-
A Reverse Rapture
by Pastor Kevin Sadler



“But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left” (Matt. 24:37-41).

These verses are often mistakenly applied to the Rapture of the Church, the Body of Christ, when in truth they refer to the Lord’s Second Coming at the close of the seven-year Tribulation period (Matt. 24:29-30).

The Lord taught His disciples about people’s preoccupation with everyday living—eating, drinking, getting married—when judgment suddenly fell on them in the days of Noah. They had received warnings in the form of Noah’s preaching and the building of the large ark itself which testified of the judgment to come (Heb. 11:7; 2 Pet. 3:5-6). But they were unconcerned, unbelieving, and did not respond, so they were swept away when the flood came.

The Lord taught His disciples that it will be like this at the end of the Tribulation, when two men will be working in the field, and one will be taken and the other left; two women will be grinding at the mill, and one will be taken and the other left.

While this might sound like the Rapture, these verses are not referring to the Lord’s coming to take believers to heaven. It is important to note that the Lord compares His Second Coming to the judgment of the days of Noah, when “the flood came, and TOOK them all away” (Matt. 24:39).

Who were the ones “taken” away in Noah’s day? Those who perished in the flood. Who were the ones “left”? Noah and his family. They were the only ones left after the judgment. The flood waters took the rest of the world away. The ones “taken” away in Noah’s day were not taken to blessing, but rather they were taken in judgment and they died.

Like the ones who were taken away in Noah’s day, the ones “taken” at the Second Coming are not taken to heaven. So, where are they taken? That’s what the disciples asked the Lord as we learn from Luke’s account of the Olivet Discourse.

“Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto Him, Where, Lord? And He said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together” (Luke 17:35-37).

The Lord’s answer to where these people will be taken is a direct reference to the Battle of Armageddon, where the eagles and other birds will gather together to feast on dead carcasses. At that battle, John tells us in Revelation 19:17-18,

“And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.”

“All men, both free and…small,” refers to the humble laborers who will be grinding at the mill or working in the field when Christ returns at His Second Coming. At that time, unbelievers will be taken to Armageddon where they will perish and birds will eat their flesh, but believers will be “left” (Matt. 24:40-41).

At the Rapture, the believer is removed from the earth and caught up to heaven prior to the Tribulation, and the unbeliever is left behind (1 Thes. 4:13-5:3). Just the opposite takes place at the Second Coming: unbelievers will be removed in judgment at the Battle of Armageddon. The one who is “left” at the Second Coming is the believer, who will enter into the blessings of Christ’s earthly Kingdom. And it is logical that Tribulation believers are left on the earth because that’s their hope (Jer. 23:5-6). Believers in the true Messiah who endure to the end of the Tribulation will be able to walk right into the Millennial Kingdom.

The Rapture is part of the revelation of the mystery made known first to Paul (1 Cor. 15:51-53). Old Testament prophecy and the Olivet Discourse have nothing to say about believers being caught up to heaven. Instead they reveal how Israel’s Messiah will return to earth, and unbelievers will be taken away in judgment, while believers will remain to enter His earthly kingdom. In this sense, the Second Coming is a reverse Rapture!

"we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed" This seems to assert that there will be Christians alive at the Second Coming (cf. 1 Thess. 4:13-18). Sleep is a biblical euphemism for death.

Does Paul expect to be alive at the Second Coming or is this an editorial "we" (alive at Jesus' return, 1 Cor. 15:51-52; 1 Thess. 4:15,17 or raised at Jesus' return, 1 Cor. 6:14; 2 Cor. 4:14; 5:1-10)? Like all NT authors and Jesus, he seems to have expected an imminent return of the glorified Christ. But only the Father knew the time (cf. Matt. 24:36; Mark 13:32; Acts 1:7). Believers are to live every day in light of the hope of the Second Coming, but plan and train for kingdom activities as if it will be delayed.

No? Yes-not so?
 
How about this-
A Reverse Rapture
by Pastor Kevin Sadler



“But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left” (Matt. 24:37-41).

These verses are often mistakenly applied to the Rapture of the Church, the Body of Christ, when in truth they refer to the Lord’s Second Coming at the close of the seven-year Tribulation period (Matt. 24:29-30).

The Lord taught His disciples about people’s preoccupation with everyday living—eating, drinking, getting married—when judgment suddenly fell on them in the days of Noah. They had received warnings in the form of Noah’s preaching and the building of the large ark itself which testified of the judgment to come (Heb. 11:7; 2 Pet. 3:5-6). But they were unconcerned, unbelieving, and did not respond, so they were swept away when the flood came.

The Lord taught His disciples that it will be like this at the end of the Tribulation, when two men will be working in the field, and one will be taken and the other left; two women will be grinding at the mill, and one will be taken and the other left.

While this might sound like the Rapture, these verses are not referring to the Lord’s coming to take believers to heaven. It is important to note that the Lord compares His Second Coming to the judgment of the days of Noah, when “the flood came, and TOOK them all away” (Matt. 24:39).

Who were the ones “taken” away in Noah’s day? Those who perished in the flood. Who were the ones “left”? Noah and his family. They were the only ones left after the judgment. The flood waters took the rest of the world away. The ones “taken” away in Noah’s day were not taken to blessing, but rather they were taken in judgment and they died.

Like the ones who were taken away in Noah’s day, the ones “taken” at the Second Coming are not taken to heaven. So, where are they taken? That’s what the disciples asked the Lord as we learn from Luke’s account of the Olivet Discourse.

“Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto Him, Where, Lord? And He said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together” (Luke 17:35-37).

The Lord’s answer to where these people will be taken is a direct reference to the Battle of Armageddon, where the eagles and other birds will gather together to feast on dead carcasses. At that battle, John tells us in Revelation 19:17-18,

“And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.”

“All men, both free and…small,” refers to the humble laborers who will be grinding at the mill or working in the field when Christ returns at His Second Coming. At that time, unbelievers will be taken to Armageddon where they will perish and birds will eat their flesh, but believers will be “left” (Matt. 24:40-41).

At the Rapture, the believer is removed from the earth and caught up to heaven prior to the Tribulation, and the unbeliever is left behind (1 Thes. 4:13-5:3). Just the opposite takes place at the Second Coming: unbelievers will be removed in judgment at the Battle of Armageddon. The one who is “left” at the Second Coming is the believer, who will enter into the blessings of Christ’s earthly Kingdom. And it is logical that Tribulation believers are left on the earth because that’s their hope (Jer. 23:5-6). Believers in the true Messiah who endure to the end of the Tribulation will be able to walk right into the Millennial Kingdom.

The Rapture is part of the revelation of the mystery made known first to Paul (1 Cor. 15:51-53). Old Testament prophecy and the Olivet Discourse have nothing to say about believers being caught up to heaven. Instead they reveal how Israel’s Messiah will return to earth, and unbelievers will be taken away in judgment, while believers will remain to enter His earthly kingdom. In this sense, the Second Coming is a reverse Rapture!

"we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed" This seems to assert that there will be Christians alive at the Second Coming (cf. 1 Thess. 4:13-18). Sleep is a biblical euphemism for death.

Does Paul expect to be alive at the Second Coming or is this an editorial "we" (alive at Jesus' return, 1 Cor. 15:51-52; 1 Thess. 4:15,17 or raised at Jesus' return, 1 Cor. 6:14; 2 Cor. 4:14; 5:1-10)? Like all NT authors and Jesus, he seems to have expected an imminent return of the glorified Christ. But only the Father knew the time (cf. Matt. 24:36; Mark 13:32; Acts 1:7). Believers are to live every day in light of the hope of the Second Coming, but plan and train for kingdom activities as if it will be delayed.

No? Yes-not so?

This reminds me of 40 years ago when i was first saved and studying God's Word.

i vividly remember telling my Pentecostal Brethren that the Luke account and those "taken away" was not the Rapture.
This was quite evident as the LORD and yourself clearly pointed out that those taken away were to be destroyed.

But those scriptures do not say that His Church/Body/Saints will be 'Left Behind' = no not at all.

Neither do those scriptures say that Christ is coming FIRST for the Rapture and then Returns 7 Years later!

As a matter of FACT, the OT Prophets, the LORD, the Apostles and Revelation never once stated a 7 Year Tribulation period.

What Daniel did prophecy is that Messiah will be cut off in the 70th week(after the 69 comes 70).
And wouldn't you just know our Heavenly FATHER knew about this and therefore JESUS Ministry lasted 3.5 Years and
then HE was "cut off" just as the Holy Spirit prophesied thru Daniel.

Going back to being 'Left Behind', we SEE in scripture that when the LORD comes not one of His Saints are 'Left Behind'.

Hebrews 13:1-6
Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge.
Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have.
For He Himself has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”
So we may boldly say:
“The Lord is my helper;
I will not fear.
What can man do to me?”

Furthermore our LORD said to us that the only 'christians' who are 'Left Behind' will be those found to be without the Holy Spirit.
Parable of the 10 Virgins in Matthew 25:1-13
“Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!
But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’
13“Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.

Before we move forward PLEASE take note that no Saint gets 'Left Behind'.

My Brother @Johann, (i will save Revelation ch19 for last.)
One thing you did do in your Post is exactly what every pre-trib theorist does =
A.) interject a rapture where no rapture is spoken of
B.) interject that there are 3 separate 'Comings' of the LORD = His First Coming, then the pre-trib rapture, then His Second Coming

Yet, when my my 'pre-trib' Brethren are pressed (i even offered a $1,000) to find the scripture(s) that DECLARE a rapture BEFORE His Second Coming they always end up EMPTY.
So, like what you did in your Post, they interject into scripture what it does not state/declare or say.

The EVIDENCE of the EXPOSURE of the fraudulent 'pre-trib' rapture begins in Genesis and Ends with Revelation.

But the MOST EVIDENT and DIRECT exposure is in the Gospel and in the Apostles Letters.

Believe JESUS = "and this Gospel will be preached in all the world and then the end will come" - Matt ch24

Believe JESUS = Luke ch13 - "And He said to them, “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open for us,’ and He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know you, where you are from,’ then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.’ But He will say, ‘I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.’ There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out. They will come from the east and the west, from the north and the south, and sit down in the kingdom of God. And indeed there are last who will be first, and there are first who will be last.”

Believe JESUS = Matthew 13:36-43
Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house.
And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”
He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

Believe exactly the words of JESUS and not the words of men = JESUS never spoke of a pre-trib rapture = not even once!

Now let us listen to the Apostles Paul (1 & 2 Thess) and John(1 John)

Paul prophecies that there will be NO Rapture until AFTER the Resurrection that ONLY occurs at His Coming
But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18Therefore comfort one another with these words.

NO Rapture until AFTER the 'man of sin/Antichrist' is revealed = 2 Thess ch2
Now, brethren, concerning the Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

Apostle John said the exact same thing in 1 John 2:18
Chapter 2 - Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

SEE first the Antichrist and AFTER his revealing comes the LORD and the Resurrection/Rapture = 1 John 3:1-3
Chapter 3 - Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of [a]God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

Now Brother Johann, you have the LORD Himself and three Men of God(Daniel, Paul, John) ALL AGREEING and saying/prophecying that
there is the 'Man of Sin/Antichrist' comes BEFORE the LORD'S Second Coming at which the Resurrection is FIRST and LAST is the Rapture.

What do we SEE in Revelation ch19 = Exactly what is Posted here = the LORD'S Second Coming with the Saints AFTER the Antichrist.

Children's Bread my Brother = for Children only!

Scholars stumble and fall
where God's Children SEE it all
Never a mind was so smart
that it could lead them out of the Dark

Child like Faith in His Word
to smart men, this is absurd
Doctorite of divinity is for men's praise
The Holy Spirit, HIM i will raise
upon my heart and my mind
so that i will not be Blind
 
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Precious friend, @Johann, my my, you and I could split this, eh? :ROFLMAO:
Hello Brother,
i enjoyed you response to my post.
Always know that we are Brethren covered by the Precious Blood of Christ and therefore we do love one another because of His Great Love for us.

P.S. - My post was short as there are many many scriptures that declare only TWO Comings of our LORD and not one of them includes any
pre-trib rapture = not even a hint!

God Bless you my Brothers @Grace ambassador and @Johann
 
Hello Brother,
i enjoyed you response to my post.
Always know that we are Brethren covered by the Precious Blood of Christ and therefore we do love one another because of His Great Love for us.

P.S. - My post was short as there are many many scriptures that declare only TWO Comings of our LORD and not one of them includes any
pre-trib rapture = not even a hint!

God Bless you my Brothers @Grace ambassador and @Johann

I definitely reject pre-trib 100%. However, there is a hint. In revelation 3:10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.

Assuming Jesus is talking about the great tribulation when he says, "the hour of trial to come on the whole world", you could interpret that to mean he will rapture some people before the great tribulation. But it could also simply mean he will protect them, which is how I interpret it. This is similar to how God seals the 144,000 to be protected during outpouring of wrath. (And, yes, I believe the great tribulation and wrath are two different things, the great tribulation preceding the Day of the Lord's Wrath.)
 
I definitely reject pre-trib 100%. However, there is a hint. In revelation 3:10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.

Assuming Jesus is talking about the great tribulation when he says, "the hour of trial to come on the whole world", you could interpret that to mean he will rapture some people before the great tribulation. But it could also simply mean he will protect them, which is how I interpret it. This is similar to how God seals the 144,000 to be protected during outpouring of wrath. (And, yes, I believe the great tribulation and wrath are two different things, the great tribulation preceding the Day of the Lord's Wrath.)
IMO - This is what i see JESUS saying to the Philadelphia church

Being kept from the "hour of trial" does not mandate a removal from the earth.

Peter failed in his 'hour of trial' and yet he was KEPT by the LORD.

“I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.
And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them.
Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You.
Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name.
Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves. I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.
They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.

1 Corinthians 10:12-13
Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.
 
IMO - This is what i see JESUS saying to the Philadelphia church

Being kept from the "hour of trial" does not mandate a removal from the earth.

I agree. Just saying that anyone looking for a "hint" might find it there. In fact, I watched a youtube video a while back where a preacher who believes pre-trib used that verse. Can't recall his name, but he has a lot of videos, some of which are okay. Not that one.
 
I agree. Just saying that anyone looking for a "hint" might find it there. In fact, I watched a youtube video a while back where a preacher who believes pre-trib used that verse. Can't recall his name, but he has a lot of videos, some of which are okay. Not that one.
We know that the LORD is not telling them that they will be raptured by the very word HE uses = "KEEP/KEPT"

Everywhere else in Revelation the LORD tells us "HE is Coming" = SEE the difference

We KNOW that when HE Returns everyone in HIM will be Resurrected and/or Raptured.

There is more i can say on this but will hold off.

Peace and Blessing be upon you Brother - Good Night
 
This reminds me of 40 years ago when i was first saved and studying God's Word.

i vividly remember telling my Pentecostal Brethren that the Luke account and those "taken away" was not the Rapture.
This was quite evident as the LORD and yourself clearly pointed out that those taken away were to be destroyed.

But those scriptures do not say that His Church/Body/Saints will be 'Left Behind' = no not at all.

Neither do those scriptures say that Christ is coming FIRST for the Rapture and then Returns 7 Years later!

As a matter of FACT, the OT Prophets, the LORD, the Apostles and Revelation never once stated a 7 Year Tribulation period.

What Daniel did prophecy is that Messiah will be cut off in the 70th week(after the 69 comes 70).
And wouldn't you just know our Heavenly FATHER knew about this and therefore JESUS Ministry lasted 3.5 Years and
then HE was "cut off" just as the Holy Spirit prophesied thru Daniel.

Going back to being 'Left Behind', we SEE in scripture that when the LORD comes not one of His Saints are 'Left Behind'.

Hebrews 13:1-6
Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge.
Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have.
For He Himself has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”
So we may boldly say:
“The Lord is my helper;
I will not fear.
What can man do to me?”

Furthermore our LORD said to us that the only 'christians' who are 'Left Behind' will be those found to be without the Holy Spirit.
Parable of the 10 Virgins in Matthew 25:1-13
“Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!
But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’
13“Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.

Before we move forward PLEASE take note that no Saint gets 'Left Behind'.

My Brother @Johann, (i will save Revelation ch19 for last.)
One thing you did do in your Post is exactly what every pre-trib theorist does =
A.) interject a rapture where no rapture is spoken of
B.) interject that there are 3 separate 'Comings' of the LORD = His First Coming, then the pre-trib rapture, then His Second Coming

Yet, when my my 'pre-trib' Brethren are pressed (i even offered a $1,000) to find the scripture(s) that DECLARE a rapture BEFORE His Second Coming they always end up EMPTY.
So, like what you did in your Post, they interject into scripture what it does not state/declare or say.

The EVIDENCE of the EXPOSURE of the fraudulent 'pre-trib' rapture begins in Genesis and Ends with Revelation.

But the MOST EVIDENT and DIRECT exposure is in the Gospel and in the Apostles Letters.

Believe JESUS = "and this Gospel will be preached in all the world and then the end will come" - Matt ch24

Believe JESUS = Luke ch13 - "And He said to them, “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open for us,’ and He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know you, where you are from,’ then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.’ But He will say, ‘I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.’ There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out. They will come from the east and the west, from the north and the south, and sit down in the kingdom of God. And indeed there are last who will be first, and there are first who will be last.”

Believe JESUS = Matthew 13:36-43
Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house.
And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”
He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

Believe exactly the words of JESUS and not the words of men = JESUS never spoke of a pre-trib rapture = not even once!

Now let us listen to the Apostles Paul (1 & 2 Thess) and John(1 John)

Paul prophecies that there will be NO Rapture until AFTER the Resurrection that ONLY occurs at His Coming
But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18Therefore comfort one another with these words.

NO Rapture until AFTER the 'man of sin/Antichrist' is revealed = 2 Thess ch2
Now, brethren, concerning the Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

Apostle John said the exact same thing in 1 John 2:18
Chapter 2 - Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

SEE first the Antichrist and AFTER his revealing comes the LORD and the Resurrection/Rapture = 1 John 3:1-3
Chapter 3 - Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of [a]God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

Now Brother Johann, you have the LORD Himself and three Men of God(Daniel, Paul, John) ALL AGREEING and saying/prophecying that
there is the 'Man of Sin/Antichrist' comes BEFORE the LORD'S Second Coming at which the Resurrection is FIRST and LAST is the Rapture.

What do we SEE in Revelation ch19 = Exactly what is Posted here = the LORD'S Second Coming with the Saints AFTER the Antichrist.

Children's Bread my Brother = for Children only!

Scholars stumble and fall
where God's Children SEE it all
Never a mind was so smart
that it could lead them out of the Dark

Child like Faith in His Word
to smart men, this is absurd
Doctorite of divinity is for men's praise
The Holy Spirit, HIM i will raise
upon my heart and my mind
so that i will not be Blind
Thanks for the post-one thing I want to make clear though-I am no scholar and don't claim to know it all-if God could "fit" in my three pound brain he is not worthy to be worshiped

2Pe 3:14 14-16 Because, my dear friends, you have a hope like this before you, I urge you to make certain that such a day would find you at peace with God and man, clean and blameless in his sight. Meanwhile, consider that God's patience is meant to be man's salvation, as our dear brother Paul pointed out in his letter to you, written out of the wisdom God gave him. In that letter, as indeed in all his letters, he referred to these matters. There are, of course, some things which are difficult to understand, and which, unhappily, ill-informed and unbalanced people distort (as they do the other scriptures), and bring disaster on their own heads.
2Pe 3:17 17-18 But you, my friends whom I love, are forewarned, and should therefore be very careful not to be carried away by the errors of wicked men and so lose your proper foothold. On the contrary, you should grow in grace and in your knowledge of our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ - to him be glory now and until the dawning of the day of eternity!
Phillips.
Hard to be understood (dusnoēta). Late verbal from dus and noeō (in Aristotle, Lucian, Diog. Laert.), here only in N.T. We know that the Thessalonians persisted in misrepresenting Paul on this very subject of the second coming as Hymenaeus and Philetus did about the resurrection (2Ti_2:17) and Spitta holds that Paul’s teaching about grace was twisted to mean moral laxity like Gal_3:10; Rom_3:20, Rom_3:28; Rom_5:20 (with which cf. Rom_6:1 as a case in point), etc. Peter does not say that he himself did not understand Paul on the subject of faith and freedom.

Unlearned (amatheis). Old word (alpha privative and manthanō to learn), ignorant, here only in N.T.

Unsteadfast (astēriktoi). See note on 2Pe_2:14.

Wrest (streblousin). Present active indicative of strebloō, old verb (from streblos twisted, strephō, to turn), here only in N.T.

The other scriptures (tas loipas graphas). There is no doubt that the apostles claimed to speak by the help of the Holy Spirit (1Th_5:27; Col_4:16) just as the prophets of old did (2Pe_1:20.). Note loipas (rest) here rather than allas (other). Peter thus puts Paul’s Epistles on the same plane with the O.T., which was also misused (Matt 5:21-44; Mat_15:3-6; Mat_19:3-10).
RWP

Some things hard to be understood.—Certainly the difficulties with which 2 Thessalonians 2 bristles are well described by this expression, and they relate to the very point in question—the time of Christ’s coming. Moreover, scoffers could easily turn them to account by arguing that “the man of sin” had not yet appeared, and that therefore there was no likelihood of the end of the world coming just yet. But in admitting that 2 Thessalonians 2 is among the passages alluded to here, we are not committed to the theory that 1 and 2 Thess. are alluded to in 2Pe_3:15. Many refer these words to St. Paul’s doctrine of justification by faith as wrested to mean “faith without works.” So, again, Eph_2:5-6, and Col_2:12 might be wrested to mean that “the resurrection is past already” (2Ti_2:18). (See Note on Rom_3:8 respecting perversion of his teaching.)

Unlearned and unstable.—The word for “unlearned” here is not the same as that translated “unlearned” in Act_4:13. (See Note there.) That signifies “without special study;” this means “without ordinary instruction.” Ignorance naturally produces instability; those who have no clear principles of Christian doctrine easily fall victims to seductions of all kinds. (Comp. 2Pe_2:14.)

Wrest.—Literally, torture by means of the rack; and hence “strain,” “distort.” That St. Paul’s doctrine of Christian liberty, as opposed to the bondage of the Law, was seen by himself to be liable to great abuse, and had already begun to be abused, we learn from his own writings (1Co_6:12-20; Gal_5:13-26; where see Notes. Comp. Rev_2:20.)

The other scriptures.—The Old Testament cannot well be meant. St. Peter would scarcely have placed the writings of a contemporary side by side with the Scriptures of the Old Testament (the canon of which had long since been closed) without some intimation of a grouping which at that time must have been novel, and probably was quite unknown. It is much more probable that Christian writings of some kind are intended, but we can only conjecture which, any of the canonical writings of the New Testament then in existence, and perhaps some that are not canonical. That an Apostle should speak of the writings of a brother-Apostle in the same terms as the books of the Old Testament—viz., as Scripture—need not surprise us, especially when we remember the large claims made by St. Paul for his own words (1Th_2:13; 2Th_2:15; Eph_3:3-5. Comp. Act_15:28; Rev_22:18-19). In 1Pe_1:12, Evangelists are almost made superior to the Old Testament Prophets—a statement indicating a view which harmonises well both with 2Pe_1:15-19 and with the view set forth here; for in 2Pe_1:15 he assigns to this Epistle much the same purpose as in 2Pe_1:19 he assigns to the Old Testament Prophets. Moreover, we have seen how Clement of Rome uses the term “Scripture” of a passage which comes from some uncanonical book (see above on 2Pe_3:4). See Introduction, I. c. δ. 4.

Unto their own destruction.—The Greek is very emphatic as to its being “their own.” (Comp. “Bring upon themselves swift destruction,” 2Pe_2:1.) It is their own doing—St. Paul and other writers of Scripture are not to blame; and it befits them—they will find the end they deserve. This passage gives no countenance to the Roman doctrine that all Scripture is hard to understand, and therefore not to be read by the people. All that is here said is that some Scripture is hard to understand, and that bad men make a bad use of the fact. The inference drawn from this by St. Peter is not, “Do not read Scripture,” nor even “Pass over what seems to be hard,” but “Be on your guard against being led astray by interpretations contrary to the spirit of the gospel.”

But thanks.
Johann.
 
TERMS FOR THE SECOND COMING

There are several terms and phrases that refer to Jesus' return.

1. parousia" (i.e., James 5:7), which means "presence," was used of a royal visit (cf. Matt. 24:3,27,37,39; 1 Cor. 15:23; 1 Thess. 2:19; 3:13; 4:15; 5:23; 2 Thess. 2:1,8; 2 Pet. 1:16; 3:4,12; 1 John 2:28)

2. epiphaneia, "face to face appearing" (i.e., 1 Tim. 6:14; 2 Tim. 1:10; 4:1,8; Titus 2:13)

3. apokalupis, "unveiling" or "revealing" (i.e., 1 Cor. 1:7; 2 Thess.1:7; 1 Pet. 1:5,13; 4:13; 5:1)

4. "the Day of the Lord" and the variations of this phrase (see Special Topic: The Day of the Lord)

The NT as a whole is written within the worldview of the OT, which asserted

1. a current evil, rebellious age

2. a coming new age of righteousness

3. this would be brought about by the Spirit's agency through the work of the Messiah (Anointed One; see Special Topic: Messiah))



The theological assumption of progressive revelation is required because the NT authors slightly modify Israel's expectation. Instead of a military, nationalistic-focused (Israel) coming of the Messiah, there are two comings. The first coming was the incarnation of deity in the conception and birth of Jesus of Nazareth. He came as the non-military, non-judicial "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53; also the mild rider on the colt of a donkey (not a war horse or kingly mule), of Zech. 9:9. The first coming inaugurated the New Messianic Age, the Kingdom of God on earth (see Special Topic: The Kingdom of God). In one sense the Kingdom is here, but of course, in another it is still far off. It is this tension between the two comings of the Messiah which, in a sense, is the over-lapping of the two Jewish ages that was unseen, or at least unclear, from the OT . In reality, this dual coming emphasizes YHWH's commitment to redeem all humanity (cf. Gen. 3:15; 12:3; Exod. 19:5 and the preaching of the prophets, especially Isaiah and Jonah;

The church is not waiting for the fulfillment of OT prophecy because most prophecies refer to the first coming (cf. How to Read the Bible For All Its Worth, pp. 165-166). What believers do anticipate is the glorious coming of the resurrected King of Kings and Lord of Lords, the expected historical fulfillment of the new age of righteousness on earth as it is in heaven (cf. Matt. 6:10). The OT presentations were not inaccurate, but incomplete. He will come again just as the prophets predicted, in the power and authority of YHWH

The Second Coming is not a biblical term, but the concept forms the worldview and framework of the entire NT. God will set it all straight. Fellowship between God and mankind made in His image will be restored (cf. Revelation 21-22). Evil will be judged and removed (cf. Rev. 20:11-15). God's purposes will not, cannot, fail!
Utley.
 
Precious friend, @Johann, my my, you and I could split this, eh? :ROFLMAO:

Right or wrong?
 
Hello Brother,
i enjoyed you response to my post.
Always know that we are Brethren covered by the Precious Blood of Christ and therefore we do love one another because of His Great Love for us.

P.S. - My post was short as there are many many scriptures that declare only TWO Comings of our LORD and not one of them includes any
pre-trib rapture = not even a hint!

God Bless you my Brothers @Grace ambassador and @Johann

The COMING Rapture
A SERIES ON END OF THE WORLD EVENTS – PART II
“Then we which are alive and remain shall be
caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air:
and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
~ 1 Thessalonians 4:17
1. Review
a. End times study concerns when Christ returns and Prophecy will be fulfilled
b. Chronologically, the rapture is first, but in your study the kingdom will be learned first
c. The rapture doctrine is a consequence of the revelation of the mystery
d. The real issue in eschatology is not rapture, tribulation, translation, but right division
2. The Rapture
a. A word not in your Bible unless you speak Latin in 1 Thess 4:17
b. It is a resurrection, but not only, it is also a change and relocation – 1 Cor 15:51-52
c. Paul mentions the appearing in Titus 2:13, Col 3:4
d. Paul teaches the church’s deliverance from wrath – Rom 5:9, 1Th 1:10, 5:9
3. The Controversy
a. It is mocked and ridiculed by poor presentations in movies and books (Left Behind)
b. The controversy among believers is when the “rapture” happens
c. There are pre-tribulation, mid-trib, post-trib, and recently pre-wrath positions

d. It is a strange event. So is… Gen 5:24, 2Ki 2:11, Act 1:9, 8:39, 2Co 12:2, Rev 11:12
e. There are people who get to heaven during the tribulation – Rev 7:9, 14:1-3, 14:16
f. Some say it is after the tribulation according to Matt 24:31, 24:36-44, 13:36-40
g. Will the church be a part of the tribulation? (Next week)
4. Separating Prophecy from Mystery
a. The strongest defense of a pre-trib rapture is rightly dividing Prophecy/Mystery
b. The rapture is secret because of how it was revealed – Rom 16:25
c. The church is not mentioned at all in Prophecy, so neither is it’s catching away
d. God’s operation/doctrine today is different than it will be during Dan 70th week
e. The gospel is different – Rev 14:6-7 vs. Gal 1:6-8, Rev 12:17, 14:12
f. The ministry is different – 2 Cor 5:18-19, Eph 6:15 vs. Rev 19:10
g. Israel must resume standing with God (not just a nation) – Rev 7:4 vs. Rom 11:32
h. It is a different time – we are not of the night or of the darkness - 1 Thess 5:1-8
5. What This Means?
a. The next thing God will do is return for His church
b. The rapture of the church is not even a prophetic end time event
c. There are no signs of this mystery return, all signs are for his prophetic return
d. The rapture of the church could happen at any moment, no intervening events
e. We are not even close to the end, we are always at least 1,007 years away

Shalom precious friend.
J.
 
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