What is the difference between the Rapture and the Second Coming?

Doug Brents said:
I know I am jumping into this discussion late, and maybe a lot of this has been already discussed, but please allow me to postulate a couple of things here:
First, the way you describe the rapture, what you call the second coming would in fact be the THIRD coming, because Christ will come back (as you said above) and the dead in Christ will be raised, and the living meet Him in the air.
Second, you state that there is no mention of the Church between Rev 6 and Rev 19. But there are still martyrs that have not been killed in Rev 6:11. And in Rev 7, the angels hold back the winds until those who are Christ's are sealed. And then multitudes are seen who are worshiping and praising God. This is the Church. If everyone in the Church is taken in Rev 5, and there is no one left to preach the Gospel after chapter 6, then from whom did this multitude hear the Gospel (Rom 10:14-15).
Third, we are in the tribulation now.

The rapture will occur during the second coming. At the second coming, the entirety of the physical universe will be destroyed completely by fire (2 Pet 3:10-13). The "wedding feast" of the Lamb and the Church will be held in Heaven (Rev 20:1-6). And after the "thousand years" (purely symbolic since time is a function of creation) the rest of the dead (the evil ones) will be raised and again fight against God, but God will subdue them, judge them, and send them to Hell for eternity. Then the new Heavens and new Earth will be made, and the righteous will live there with God (Rev 21).
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In the Light of Scripture, you should reconsider that the 1,000 Years of Revelation 20:1-10 are "symbolic".

Genesis proves they are literal.

Peace and Good Night
 
DavidTree said:
In the Light of Scripture, you should reconsider that the 1,000 Years of Revelation 20:1-10 are "symbolic".

Genesis proves they are literal.

Peace and Good Night
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The 1000 years is poetic in the sense that it is "the 1000 year day."

However, the time period will be based on the light of the first day, not the fourth.
 
Frank Russell said:
The 1000 years is poetic in the sense that it is "the 1000 year day."

However, the time period will be based on the light of the first day, not the fourth.
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i do SEE what you mean by "the 1,000 year DAY"

from the perspective of scripture the 1,000 years are literal and they can be considered as a "DAY" but not in the 24 hour day term.
 
DavidTree said:
In the Light of Scripture, you should reconsider that the 1,000 Years of Revelation 20:1-10 are "symbolic".

Genesis proves they are literal.

Peace and Good Night
Click to expand...
Please show me where Genesis proves they are literal. I am really curious, because I have never heard anyone mention this before, and have never read anything that indicates this. Thanks.
 
Doug Brents said:
Please show me where Genesis proves they are literal. I am really curious, because I have never heard anyone mention this before, and have never read anything that indicates this. Thanks.
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Good Morning,

Genesis 5:1-5
This is the book of the genealogy of Adam. In the day that God created man, He made him in the likeness of God. He created them male and female, and blessed them and called them Mankind in the day they were created. And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth. After he begot Seth, the days of Adam were eight hundred years; and he had sons and daughters. So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years; and he died.
 
DavidTree said:
Good Morning,

Genesis 5:1-5
This is the book of the genealogy of Adam. In the day that God created man, He made him in the likeness of God. He created them male and female, and blessed them and called them Mankind in the day they were created. And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth. After he begot Seth, the days of Adam were eight hundred years; and he had sons and daughters. So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years; and he died.
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OK, I see the passage, and I have read it many times, but I don't see how this proves the thousand year wedding celebration in Heaven is a literal thousand years. Please dissect this so I can see your thought process.
 
Doug Brents said:
OK, I see the passage, and I have read it many times, but I don't see how this proves the thousand year wedding celebration in Heaven is a literal thousand years. Please dissect this so I can see your thought process.
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What is missing in Adams timeline, years wise?
 
DavidTree said:
They are directly connected.

What prevented Adam from reaching the 1,000 mark?
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The fact that sin had entered the world. Other than that, there is nothing that I know of that prevented his reaching 1000. Methuselah only reached 39 more years than Adam did, and Jared was only 7 years behind him, and Noah reached 950 (349 of those after the Flood).

Now, get on with it and show the "direct" connection that you believe exists.
 
Doug Brents said:
The fact that sin had entered the world. Other than that, there is nothing that I know of that prevented his reaching 1000. Methuselah only reached 39 more years than Adam did, and Jared was only 7 years behind him, and Noah reached 950 (349 of those after the Flood).

Now, get on with it and show the "direct" connection that you believe exists.
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BINGO - sin changed everything

Adam, 'the son of God' = Luke 3:38 the son of Adam, the son of God.

Adam, the son of God, made it to 930 years and fell short by 70 years.
70 is the Missing LINK that reconnects BACK to the Original Desire of God AND more Perfectly 70 X 7

Adam is compared to the LORD Jesus Christ = 1 Corinthians ch15

But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
21For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.
22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
23But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

When/Where/How did the 70 X 7 Salvation Plan of God to Restore Mankind first show up/prophecy?

Daniel 9:24
“Seventy weeks/sevens are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.

The LORD Jesus Christ is the Restoration of God's People, who are defined as Jew & Gentile in the Gospel.
The Gospel is the Eternal Hope and is the DAY of Righteousness for all who believe.

Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion,
In the day of trial in the wilderness,
Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me,
And saw My works forty years.
Therefore I was angry with that generation,
And said, ‘They always go astray in their heart,
And they have not known My ways.’
So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest.’ ”

Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, while it is said:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.”

Christ purchased with His Blood both forgiveness of sins and RESTORATION for Mankind(those who Believe)

When the Gospel finishes IT'S course, while it is still TODAY, Christ will Return and a New DAY with Begin = 1,000 Year Reign with Him.
 
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DavidTree said:
BINGO - sin changed everything

Adam, 'the son of God' = Luke 3:38 the son of Adam, the son of God.

Adam, the son of God, made it to 930 years and fell short by 70 years.
70 is the Missing LINK that reconnects BACK to the Original Desire of God AND more Perfectly 70 X 7

Adam is compared to the LORD Jesus Christ = 1 Corinthians ch15

But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
21For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.
22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
23But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

When/Where/How did the 70 X 7 Salvation Plan of God to Restore Mankind first show up/prophecy?

Daniel 9:24
“Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.
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Oh wow. Now that is some stuff!

First off, the death that God promised to Adam occurred on the day that he and Eve ate from the Tree, not 930 years later. But physical death is also in the world because of sin.

But the 70 weeks/years in Daniel's prophecy is not the remainder of the years that Adam didn't live that would have made 1000. If it were, then there would have been no one else who lived longer than Adam, but I listed three others who lived longer than Adam.
Further, the thousand years celebration will occur after this universe (and time with it, I believe) will be completely destroyed. There will be no more time to measure.
Finally, the thousand years will be just the first blip in the first instant of the first moment (not that there will be time, but just for human reference) of the eternity that we will live in Heaven. Compare the wedding celebration of Adam and Eve (it took as long as it took God to say, "You're married" (meaning there wasn't really any celebration)) to the life of Adam and Eve: one second vs 930 years (we don't know how old Eve was when she died). One second vs 29,328,480,000 seconds. Now substitute 1000 years for each second: 29,328,480,000,000 years. And that is just the beginning of eternity.

That is the point of the thousand year wedding celebration in Heaven.
 
Doug Brents said:
Oh wow. Now that is some stuff!

First off, the death that God promised to Adam occurred on the day that he and Eve ate from the Tree, not 930 years later. But physical death is also in the world because of sin.

But the 70 weeks/years in Daniel's prophecy is not the remainder of the years that Adam didn't live that would have made 1000. If it were, then there would have been no one else who lived longer than Adam, but I listed three others who lived longer than Adam.
Further, the thousand years celebration will occur after this universe (and time with it, I believe) will be completely destroyed. There will be no more time to measure.
Finally, the thousand years will be just the first blip in the first instant of the first moment (not that there will be time, but just for human reference) of the eternity that we will live in Heaven. Compare the wedding celebration of Adam and Eve (it took as long as it took God to say, "You're married" (meaning there wasn't really any celebration)) to the life of Adam and Eve: one second vs 930 years (we don't know how old Eve was when she died). One second vs 29,328,480,000 seconds. Now substitute 1000 years for each second: 29,328,480,000,000 years. And that is just the beginning of eternity.

That is the point of the thousand year wedding celebration in Heaven.
Click to expand...

i have step out now and am not ignoring this

talk with ya later
 
Doug Brents said:
Oh wow. Now that is some stuff!

First off, the death that God promised to Adam occurred on the day that he and Eve ate from the Tree, not 930 years later. But physical death is also in the world because of sin.

But the 70 weeks/years in Daniel's prophecy is not the remainder of the years that Adam didn't live that would have made 1000. If it were, then there would have been no one else who lived longer than Adam, but I listed three others who lived longer than Adam.
Further, the thousand years celebration will occur after this universe (and time with it, I believe) will be completely destroyed. There will be no more time to measure.
Finally, the thousand years will be just the first blip in the first instant of the first moment (not that there will be time, but just for human reference) of the eternity that we will live in Heaven. Compare the wedding celebration of Adam and Eve (it took as long as it took God to say, "You're married" (meaning there wasn't really any celebration)) to the life of Adam and Eve: one second vs 930 years (we don't know how old Eve was when she died). One second vs 29,328,480,000 seconds. Now substitute 1000 years for each second: 29,328,480,000,000 years. And that is just the beginning of eternity.

That is the point of the thousand year wedding celebration in Heaven.
Click to expand...
The others beside Adam is not who the Holy Spirit compared to Christ = 1 Cor 15:22

The others were never designated as Adam was = "the son of God" = Luke 1:38

God was and is sending a Message throughout His Word that speaks of Christ beginning in Genesis and ending with Revelation.

God placed His Signature on the Message that is hidden in the Scriptures.

JESUS showed forth that Signature = Matthew 18:22

Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”
Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven/70 X 7.

 
DavidTree said:
The others beside Adam is not who the Holy Spirit compared to Christ = 1 Cor 15:22
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True, but the comparison is in that sin came into the world through one man (Adam), and through one man came salvation from sin (Christ Jesus).
DavidTree said:
The others were never designated as Adam was = "the son of God" = Luke 1:38
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Adam was the son of God in the sense that he was created by God. All other humans are also God's children (in a sense) because we are descended from Him, but we are more appropriately called sons of our parents. But we can become children of God through Christ when we believe in Him, and are baptized into Him.
DavidTree said:
God was and is sending a Message throughout His Word that speaks of Christ beginning in Genesis and ending with Revelation.
Click to expand...
Very true. The OT points forward to Christ, the Gospels are all about Him and His good news, and the rest of the NT points back to Him.
DavidTree said:
God placed His Signature on the Message that is hidden in the Scriptures.
Click to expand...
Also true. But that message is not some mathematical code that we need to figure out.
DavidTree said:
JESUS showed forth that Signature = Matthew 18:22

Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”
Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven/70 X 7.
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LOL, Seven is the number depicting completeness, that is why Satan is associated with 6, he is not complete. So then, 7 times 7 would be the perfect times the perfect. But Jesus is not talking about being perfect, but about an unending forgiveness; not to count up to 490 forgivenesses, but to not keep count, and to be perfect as God is perfect.
 
Doug Brents said:
True, but the comparison is in that sin came into the world through one man (Adam), and through one man came salvation from sin (Christ Jesus).

Adam was the son of God in the sense that he was created by God. All other humans are also God's children (in a sense) because we are descended from Him, but we are more appropriately called sons of our parents. But we can become children of God through Christ when we believe in Him, and are baptized into Him.

Very true. The OT points forward to Christ, the Gospels are all about Him and His good news, and the rest of the NT points back to Him.

Also true. But that message is not some mathematical code that we need to figure out.

LOL, Seven is the number depicting completeness, that is why Satan is associated with 6, he is not complete. So then, 7 times 7 would be the perfect times the perfect. But Jesus is not talking about being perfect, but about an unending forgiveness; not to count up to 490 forgivenesses, but to not keep count, and to be perfect as God is perfect.
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ALL GOOD except for your last comment that began with Seven.

Also, i never said a mathematical code is needed. - what is needed is to believe what God told us to believe!
Example: On the 7th Day God rested from His works = simple math = count 7 days and then rest = if you violate the rest you die!

ABSOLUTELY JESUS is confirming that the PERFECT has COME = "IMMANUEL, God with us." "and the WORD became flesh and dwelt among us"

The LORD JESUS did this often but few understood Him and those who did wanted to stone HIM for making HIMSELF EQUAL with GOD.
We will NEVER be "perfect as our Heavenly Father is perfect" except by what means??? = the LORD JESUS CHRIST

Do you know where else in the gospel where JESUS alluded to HIS equality with HIS FATHER?
 
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