What is the difference between the Rapture and the Second Coming?

[Frank Russell]

Hello Frank,

Question - Do you believe that Genesis is only allegorical?

No.

I believe the first 7 days of creation literally happened according to the light of the first day which is now immeasurable based on it being hidden behind the sky.

After the first creation was infected by sin, God began creating a new heaven and new earth.

The millennium in Revelation 20 is a representation of the seventh day of the new creation.

There are other allegorical representations throughout the ages in scripture ... however day 5 is missing from the record ..

The story of Jesus Christ ends at the beginning of the fourth day, and the Revelation prophecy picks up on the sixth day.

These allegories are to show us that God has not stopped working .. Just like Jesus said to the teachers of His day.

 

[Frank Russell]

i do SEE what you mean by "the 1,000 year DAY"

from the perspective of scripture the 1,000 years are literal and they can be considered as a "DAY" but not in the 24 hour day term.

I just meant in the poetries 1000 years is considered a day or just 3 hours (a watch in the night) so the comparison is relative if you take all examples into context.

So the 1000 year day is kind of like how Jesus would pluck some random scripture and say "this is what was written of you" .. so in the same way .. the 1000 year day was written about .. I wonder who would live 1000 years twice told?

 

[DavidTree]

I just meant in the poetries 1000 years is considered a day or just 3 hours (a watch in the night) so the comparison is relative if you take all examples into context.

So the 1000 year day is kind of like how Jesus would pluck some random scripture and say "this is what was written of you" .. so in the same way .. the 1000 year day was written about .. I wonder who would live 1000 years twice told?

I just meant in the poetries 1000 years is considered a day or just 3 hours (a watch in the night)

AGREE as far as God is concerned = to HIM a thousand years is as nothing since "HE is Eternal and never slumbers, sleeps or grows weary."
To us, time is what we live in and will continue in as in a literal 1,000 Years.


I cannot find in the Gospel any random scripture that JESUS quoted.

I do SEE that every time HE quoted scripture it was pertinent to the subject HE was either teaching, reminding, correcting or rebuking.

With the LORD there are no random scriptures as they all have significance = Matthew 4:4

 

[Frank Russell]

AGREE as far as God is concerned = to HIM a thousand years is as nothing since "HE is Eternal and never slumbers, sleeps or grows weary."
To us, time is what we live in and will continue in as in a literal 1,000 Years.


I cannot find in the Gospel any random scripture that JESUS quoted.

I do SEE that every time HE quoted scripture it was pertinent to the subject HE was either teaching, reminding, correcting or rebuking.

With the LORD there are no random scriptures as they all have significance = Matthew 4:4

Well, based on the way we select scriptures according to context today, His method definitely seems random .. but I agree, it's not. But that's what I meant by it.

 

[101G]

Addressing the OP, the only difference is that there is no Rapture, only the Secoming*,

* Please note: a new word created by 101G in Christ Jesus. "Secoming". sec for second and the same "c" continuing for "coming." so the two words second coming, are just compacted into ONE ... single NEW WORD. secoming. ...... (smile). Just LIKE our Father ..... creative

101G.

 

[Doug Brents]

ALL GOOD except for your last comment that began with Seven.

Also, i never said a mathematical code is needed. - what is needed is to believe what God told us to believe!
Example: On the 7th Day God rested from His works = simple math = count 7 days and then rest = if you violate the rest you die!

Not under the New Covenant, but that is a discussion for another thread maybe.

ABSOLUTELY JESUS is confirming that the PERFECT has COME = "IMMANUEL, God with us." "and the WORD became flesh and dwelt among us"

The LORD JESUS did this often but few understood Him and those who did wanted to stone HIM for making HIMSELF EQUAL with GOD.
We will NEVER be "perfect as our Heavenly Father is perfect" except by what means??? = the LORD JESUS CHRIST

Do you know where else in the gospel where JESUS alluded to HIS equality with HIS FATHER?

We are getting way off track here. The thousand years in Rev 20 is a figurative thousand years. It is simply a reference to a very long time, and not to a code that can be found by adding the life of Adam to the remaining time before Messiah came after the return from Babylonian captivity.

 

[DavidTree]

Not under the New Covenant, but that is a discussion for another thread maybe.

We are getting way off track here. The thousand years in Rev 20 is a figurative thousand years. It is simply a reference to a very long time, and not to a code that can be found by adding the life of Adam to the remaining time before Messiah came after the return from Babylonian captivity.

Not under the New Covenant, but that is a discussion for another thread maybe.

The Death Penalty for violating the Sabbath Rest of God carries over into the New Covenant (SDA's pay attention).

 

[DavidTree]

Not under the New Covenant, but that is a discussion for another thread maybe.

We are getting way off track here. The thousand years in Rev 20 is a figurative thousand years. It is simply a reference to a very long time, and not to a code that can be found by adding the life of Adam to the remaining time before Messiah came after the return from Babylonian captivity.

There is no code, there is only TRUTH = "Thy Word is TRUTH"

God CLEAR as DAY showed us how long Adam lived = 930 years!

God CLEAR as DAY told us 70 x 7 is REQUIRED for Forgiveness of sins and to bring in EVERLASTING RIGHTEOUSNESS.

God told us CLEAR as DAY that there will be a Resurrection of the Just who will Reign with Christ for a literal 1,000 Years.

 

[Doug Brents]

The Death Penalty for violating the Sabbath Rest of God carries over into the New Covenant (SDA's pay attention).

No, it does not. Notice in Col 2:16-23 Paul is discussing the fact that Jesus' death removed the requirements of the Law of Moses. And because of that, we should not fear the judgement of anyone because of what we eat, or when we worship, or when we rest. Because all the Old Covenant Laws are shadows of the things in Christ. Further, in Gal 4:10-11, Paul rebukes the Christ followers to whom he is speaking for "meticulously observe days and months and seasons and years." And this would include the sabbath.

Also, when the Jews came to Antioch and began to try to make the Gentile converts to Christ obey the Law of Moses, the case was taken to the other Apostles in Jerusalem. When the Apostles had conferred, what was their decision? They commanded that the Gentiles "abstain from things contaminated by idols, from acts of sexual immorality, from what has been strangled, and from blood." They commanded this because these are public, visible things that would offend the Jews if they saw them. And this is evident from the next verse, "For from ancient generations Moses has those who preach him in every city, since he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath." There is no direction to keep the sabbath. There is no direction to be circumcised. There is no direction to obey any of the parts of the Law of Moses, but to keep the commands of Jesus, and to keep from offending Jewish brothers, many of whom still did keep the traditions of the Law.

There is no code, there is only TRUTH = "Thy Word is TRUTH"

God CLEAR as DAY showed us how long Adam lived = 930 years!

God CLEAR as DAY told us 70 x 7 is REQUIRED for Forgiveness of sins and to bring in EVERLASTING RIGHTEOUSNESS.

God told us CLEAR as DAY that there will be a Resurrection of the Just who will Reign with Christ for a literal 1,000 Years.

If you want to see a literal thousand years there, go ahead. But don't preach your opinions as fact. It is pure speculation on your part to connect Adam's age with the prophecy in Daniel and compare that with the wedding feast of Christ. The vast majority of Revelation is symbolic and figurative. In prophecy of this kind, things should be taken as figurative unless there is clear indication that it is literal. There is NO indication in Revelation that the thousand years is literal.

 

[DavidTree]

No, it does not. Notice in Col 2:16-23 Paul is discussing the fact that Jesus' death removed the requirements of the Law of Moses. And because of that, we should not fear the judgement of anyone because of what we eat, or when we worship, or when we rest. Because all the Old Covenant Laws are shadows of the things in Christ. Further, in Gal 4:10-11, Paul rebukes the Christ followers to whom he is speaking for "meticulously observe days and months and seasons and years." And this would include the sabbath.

Also, when the Jews came to Antioch and began to try to make the Gentile converts to Christ obey the Law of Moses, the case was taken to the other Apostles in Jerusalem. When the Apostles had conferred, what was their decision? They commanded that the Gentiles "abstain from things contaminated by idols, from acts of sexual immorality, from what has been strangled, and from blood." They commanded this because these are public, visible things that would offend the Jews if they saw them. And this is evident from the next verse, "For from ancient generations Moses has those who preach him in every city, since he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath." There is no direction to keep the sabbath. There is no direction to be circumcised. There is no direction to obey any of the parts of the Law of Moses, but to keep the commands of Jesus, and to keep from offending Jewish brothers, many of whom still did keep the traditions of the Law.

If you want to see a literal thousand years there, go ahead. But don't preach your opinions as fact. It is pure speculation on your part to connect Adam's age with the prophecy in Daniel and compare that with the wedding feast of Christ. The vast majority of Revelation is symbolic and figurative. In prophecy of this kind, things should be taken as figurative unless there is clear indication that it is literal. There is NO indication in Revelation that the thousand years is literal.

Your right!
Your opinions do not count.

 

[Doug Brents]

Your right!
Your opinions do not count.

Absolutely right, neither my opinion nor yours count worth a spit in the ocean. What Scripture says matters. Now, if you want to believe what you've said, then believe it. But don't teach it like it is the truth unless Scripture says it (which in this case it doesn't).

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Don't recall if I already made this point, so apologies if this is a duplicate.

Paul tells people they can know the Day of the Lord hasn't yet come because the apostacy and man of sin must be revealed first. Now, according to pre-tribbers, that happens 3.5 years after the "tribulation period"* begins. So why is Paul telling them about a sign they'll never see if they've been raptured 3.5 years before it happens?

*There's no such thing as "the tribulation period". It's not in the Bible. The GREAT tribulation is in the bible, but it's not a 7 year period.

 

[DavidTree]

Absolutely right, neither my opinion nor yours count worth a spit in the ocean. What Scripture says matters. Now, if you want to believe what you've said, then believe it. But don't teach it like it is the truth unless Scripture says it (which in this case it doesn't).

i only teach what scripture declares.

When you stand before the LORD you can tell him that His declaration of 70 X 7 holds no connection to the prophecy given to Daniel.

You can also tell Him that the 1,000 Years are not literal.

And you can top-it-off with, "I don't believe the Sabbath REST of God carried over into the NT"

Or, you can open your heart and mind to SEE, while it is called 'TODAY' where the LORD carried into the NT with His Sabbath Rest and the death penalty to anyone who shows disregard to His REST.

 

[Doug Brents]

i only teach what scripture declares.

When you stand before the LORD you can tell him that His declaration of 70 X 7 holds no connection to the prophecy given to Daniel.

You can also tell Him that the 1,000 Years are not literal.

All of this is supposition on your part. It has no bearing on salvation. So while it is a fun discussion, it is not an essential belief.

And you can top-it-off with, "I don't believe the Sabbath REST of God carried over into the NT"

Show me where in the New Testament we are commanded to keep the Sabbath. Please, I have not seen it anywhere.

 

[DavidTree]

All of this is supposition on your part. It has no bearing on salvation. So while it is a fun discussion, it is not an essential belief.

Show me where in the New Testament we are commanded to keep the Sabbath. Please, I have not seen it anywhere.

i was away when you posted this and just now viewing it.

Just to be CLEAR, this is God's Eternal Edict.

Exodus 31:12-15
And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who you. You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Before i show you where this carries over in the NT, do you have any questions so far?

 

[Doug Brents]

i was away when you posted this and just now viewing it.

Just to be CLEAR, this is God's Eternal Edict.

Exodus 31:12-15
And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who you. You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Before i show you where this carries over in the NT, do you have any questions so far?

I know the commandment given in the Law of Moses that applies to the Nation of Israel under the Old Covenant.

 

[DavidTree]

I know the commandment given in the Law of Moses that applies to the Nation of Israel under the Old Covenant.

And our LORD came to fulfill the Law

Matthew 5:17-18
“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

True or False

 

[Doug Brents]

And our LORD came to fulfill the Law

Matthew 5:17-18
“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

True or False

True, but what happens to a contract or covenant that is fulfilled? If all the requirements of a contract are fulfilled by both parties, what happens to the contract? A contract that has had all its obligations from both sides fulfilled is void. It is no longer enforceable, because there is nothing left to enforce. That is what happened to the Old Covenant when Jesus fulfilled it. He met all the requirements of the Covenant for the Human side of the contract, and the Father fulfilled all the requirements of God's side of the covenant. That made the Old Covenant void.

Then Jesus instituted the New Covenant on the better promises, and better sacrifice, than the Old. The New Covenant is the binding covenant we are under today. Where does it say that the sabbath must be kept under penalty of death?

 

[DavidTree]

True, but what happens to a contract or covenant that is fulfilled? If all the requirements of a contract are fulfilled by both parties, what happens to the contract? A contract that has had all its obligations from both sides fulfilled is void. It is no longer enforceable, because there is nothing left to enforce. That is what happened to the Old Covenant when Jesus fulfilled it. He met all the requirements of the Covenant for the Human side of the contract, and the Father fulfilled all the requirements of God's side of the covenant. That made the Old Covenant void.

Then Jesus instituted the New Covenant on the better promises, and better sacrifice, than the Old. The New Covenant is the binding covenant we are under today. Where does it say that the sabbath must be kept under penalty of death?

Good Morning and AWESOME Post - Thank You

OK, Matthew 5:17-18 was spoken by the LORD for us to know that God's law was meant for a specific purpose and that purpose is just as you stated.

But this is not the exact scripture that shows the Sabbath Rest carries over into the NT with BOTH the Blessing and Death Penalty.

 

[Doug Brents]

Good Morning and AWESOME Post - Thank You

Thank you.

OK, Matthew 5:17-18 was spoken by the LORD for us to know that God's law was meant for a specific purpose and that purpose is just as you stated.

But this is not the exact scripture that shows the Sabbath Rest carries over into the NT with BOTH the Blessing and Death Penalty.

Ok, then please show me where the commandment to keep the sabbath was restated in the Net Covenant, and that the death penalty still pertains to it.