Veneration of Mary

[mikepec]

There's a BOOK called the BIBLE that you must not be familiar with.

Find one and look up James 5:16. It covers LIVING brethren and sisters, not physically DEAD ones. You know as well as I do that Catholic believers only go to MARY, because they've been TRAINED to think that they have a better shot at getting what they want out of God that way (Chuckle!!! Jesus won't say "NO" to his MOTHER!!!).

One day you might study catholicism before attack it.

Coming to which there is a book called the BIBLE you are clearly NOT familiar with.
If you were you would know how it originated.and the authority by which were books chosen and rejected.
And the authority by which the MEANING of scripture was passed down with the words.


So then you would also know that your often repeated but personal opinion of the meaning of scripture is irrelevant.
You should go to the sources Jesus appointed - those "sent to preach", which became tradition paradosis the "faith handed down"
with the power to "bind and loose" meaning which is why the pillar of truth is THE church

Protestants all disagree with each other , including reformers disagreeing on meaning because sola scriptura is a man made tradition and total fail.

So Why not start a section on "carrabionism",
yet another "ism" disagreeing with all the other "isms" and denominatios because , like you, they are men "leaning on their own understanding". It exploded at the time of the reformation, since no longer did Jesus opinion matter which he handed down in tradition, only the reformers opinion then mattered who all disagreed with each other. None of them wanted to abolish the pope. They all wanted to be pope except far worse than that, they knew so little about the pope, they assumed powers for their own papacy even the real pope does not claim!

Tell us about something you KNOW ABOUT instead.
What is carrabionism? What do you believe?
I am genuinely interested. For example - What sacraments do you accept, and performed how?

When you say "scripture disagrees" you mean carrabios opinion of the meaning of scripture disagrees. And that is all.

 

[Ezra]

One day you might study catholicism

i have pretty good knowledge of it.. no place in the Bible pray to Mary period... no place is purgatory praying people out of hell . no place do we have go to confession...we have a great High priest there is so much in catholcism that does not line up with scriptures,, it to much man based ,, is there other denoms man made traditions yes, that is why we have solo scripture . i will say one thing ya all know how to party , back in my lost days i got cousin who got married what a reception all the bozze you could drink.. even the priest joined in... it was a true drunkfest yes sirrre bob ,, alcoholics Dream come true

 

[Bob Carabbio]

There are a lot of things about the Roman Catholic Church that are not biblical, but the one I least understand is the veneration of Mary. How did that start?

Probably a re-purposing of the Goddess Diana, adopted into Roman Catholic Theology to make their system more palatable to the PAGAN Romans centuries ago. Pretty much EVERYTHING about the Roman Catholic "Blessed Virgin thing" is as PHONY as a $3 bill. but it seems to work nicely to keep Catholic Victims "Hooked" to their Denomination's "Traditions" in place of real Biblical teaching.

 

[mikepec]

i have pretty good knowledge of it.. no place in the Bible pray to Mary period... no place is purgatory praying people out of hell . no place do we have go to confession...we have a great High priest there is so much in catholcism that does not line up with scriptures,, it to much man based ,, is there other denoms man made traditions yes, that is why we have solo scripture . i will say one thing ya all know how to party , back in my lost days i got cousin who got married what a reception all the bozze you could drink.. even the priest joined in... it was a true drunkfest yes sirrre bob ,, alcoholics Dream come true

Insert “ In ezras opinion of scripture” and at total variance to the message of those “ sent to preach”

Go and write a post elsewhere about “ezranism “ whatever it is you believe:
keep this forum for actual catholic Christian belief as handed down from the earliest times.

Tell me where does Jesus say “ go out and buy a New Testament” and do the Protestant/ carrabio thing and make up what it means And “ disagree loudly with everyone else” - because even reformers could not agree , and they have schismed endlessly because of their phony sola scriptura.

Hint - Jesus didn’t, there was not a New Testament until the catholic CHURCH compiled it centuries later!

so this modern “ biblical sola scriptura”
“ make up what it means like carrabio does”
is false man made tradition of the reformation.

Jesus actually said “ do this “ and “ teach this “ , NOT write this or read this.
And we know what they taught from those the apostles taught.
He gave them the power to “ bind and loose”, that’s how we know the teaching of the magisterium is true.

That’s why you should listen ONLY to those “ sent to preach”
not make it up as you go along carrabio.

Tell me - if your phony 3 dollar bill - of sola scriptura was true, why do you all disagree On what scripture means?
You onlyattack Catholics because it’s the only common denominator and thing you agree on!
Everything else protestabrs disagree on. Protestants are the divided house that cannot stand.

 

[Ezra]

ell me - if your phony 3 dollar bill - of sola scriptura was true, why do you all disagree On what scripture means?
You onlyattack Catholics because it’s the only common denominator and thing you agree on!
Everything else protestabrs disagree on. Protestants are the divided house that cannot stand.

we live under the new cov which is based off the n.t. it appears your only line of defense is hurl insults.. i only pointed out a few facts that YOU fail to defend .the new testament fulfills the old. in paul writing he used o.t scriptures to bring out grace

 

[Complete]

Subject Heading, 'The Veneration of Mary'
[ Replies:- #3,5,7,11,13,18,23,24,29,31,34,29,31,35,39,40,41,44,46,53,57,61,64 ]

'And Mary said,
My soul doth magnify the Lord,
And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
For He hath regarded the low estate of His handmaiden:
for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
For He that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is His name.
And His mercy is on them that fear Him from generation to generation.
He hath shewed strength with His arm;
he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
He hath put down the mighty from their seats, and exalted them of low degree.
He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich He hath sent empty away.
He hath holpen His servant Israel, in remembrance of His mercy;
As He spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.'
(Luke 1:46-55)

Hello @mikepec,

I love the words of Mary (above). 'My soul doth magnify the Lord, and my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour': and all generations have acknowledged how much she was blessed by God. The angel Gabriel came and said to her, 'Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women'.(Luke 1:28). She was indeed, 'Highly favoured' by God.

The Greek word, translated 'Highly favoured', used of Mary, are wonderful words, only used once more in Scripture, and that is in relation to those of the church which is the Body of Christ in, Ephesians 1:6, and translated, 'made us accepted':-

'To the praise of the glory of His grace,
wherein He hath made us accepted
in the beloved.'
(Eph 1:6)

* Yes, God has 'much graced' us, in the Beloved.
* How wonderful it is, that we have been linked with Mary in this way: having been equally blessed, in Christ Jesus, Who was Mary's firstborn, and God's only Begotten, Son.

Praise God!

Within the love of Christ our Saviour
our Lord and Head,
Chris

 

[mikepec]

we live under the new cov which is based off the n.t. it appears your only line of defense is hurl insults.. i only pointed out a few facts that YOU fail to defend .the new testament fulfills the old. in paul writing he used o.t scriptures to bring out grace

I did not issue a single insult. But FYI When you insult catholic belief, you insult catholics.

Sola scriptura is the false man made tradition that means all protesant groups believe different things.
That is provable. Just study how calvinists, lutherans, baptists, episcopals (etc) all disagree on major aspects of doctrine.

The angriest group of all seem to be calvinists. But then that is what calvin was : an angry academic, intent on proving how "clever" he was!
He missed the verse that said doctrine had been "concealed from wise men (him) , but revealed to little children"
So you do not need the PHd to understand the faith.
If the bible says it IS his body that is what he means!!! IS.
If He gives the obligation to "tend my sheep" the power to "bind and loose" , the "keys of the kingdom" to Peter. That is what Jesus means. Jesus did not give it to a rock or a confession, he gave it to Peter. Obviously. That is what he said. That is what he meant.
The fact Luther and Calvin hated it, did not change the truth one iota.
Revelations 12 is Mary. "mother of those who keep the commandments" Get over it.

The differences you ALL have between each other? Every matter of Doctrine.
On baptism (method, means, meaning) , ditto eucharist, necessity of priesthood, soteriology, end times, moral issues, marriage issues, other sacraments , even the trinity is disputed by some pentecostals who brought back modalism! etc etc etc you all believe different things.
Even the reformers disagreed with each other because the meaning of scripture is not obvious, it was not written as a manual, it was not the way the faith was even handed down in early christianity. So sola scriptura is your problem.


The true Catholic church from the beginning believed in the new covenant and the new testament as fulfillment of the old.
BUT we believe in all the true new covenant - the new covenant in Jesus blood poured for many for forgiveness of sins - is a reference to the eucharist of the real presence valid ONLY if presided by bishop in succession. That is what John taught it meant.

So we do not have the reformer parody of the eucharist that profanes it.


So it was a fair question? What is "ezranism" - what permutation of reformer beliefs do you hold? What do you believe about baptism, eucharist, priesthood, soteriology etc. Which group do you belong too? The groups are all different.
I belong to the first church that follows what those "sent to preach" believe with the power to "Bind and loose". Those who CHOSE your new testament (under divine inspiration of course) long after the faith was established by tradition...

I have noticed protestants are only too happy to attack catholicism, but then they get upset, when catholics point out the lack of foundation for what protestants believe. The total falsehood that is sola scriptura. But mostly I draw the line when such as carrabio knowingly and falsely misrepresent catholicism. It is why the myths about catholicism propagate.

 

[Complete]

I have noticed protestants are only too happy to attack catholicism, but then they get upset, when catholics point out the lack of foundation for what protestants believe. The total falsehood that is sola scriptura. But mostly I draw the line when such as carrabio knowingly and falsely misrepresent catholicism. It is why the myths about catholicism propagate.

'For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid,
which is Jesus Christ.
.. Now if any man build upon this foundation
.... gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
...... Every man's work shall be made manifest:
........ for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire;
.......... and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon,
.. he shall receive a reward.
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss:
.. but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.'
(1Cor 3:11014)

Hello @mikepec,

With respect, the one sure foundation all who are saved by God's grace have, is Christ Jesus, our risen and glorified Saviour, Lord and Head.
Who died for us, and rose again, that our sins may be forgiven, and we may have the sure and certain hope of life: eternal life; in Him.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[mikepec]

'For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid,
which is Jesus Christ.
.. Now if any man build upon this foundation
.... gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
...... Every man's work shall be made manifest:
........ for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire;
.......... and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon,
.. he shall receive a reward.
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss:
.. but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.'
(1Cor 3:11014)

Hello @mikepec,

With respect, the one sure foundation all who are saved by God's grace have, is Christ Jesus, our risen and glorified Saviour, Lord and Head.
Who died for us, and rose again, that our sins may be forgiven, and we may have the sure and certain hope of life: eternal life; in Him.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

And with respect, it isn’t as simple as that and you know it.

EG Either baptism is essential or it isn’t. It has effexts or it doesn’t.
And if it is, it must be done “ right”.

if all that mattered ie what you say, the bible and New Testament would be one paragraph long.
And your statement makes most of Jesus teaching redundant, which it isn’t.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

What is carrabionism? What do you believe?

it's Carabbianism, y'all get it right, now.

Eph 2:8,9 covers being Born again nicely;
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

I am genuinely interested. For example - What sacraments do you accept,

None, "Sacraments" are a Roman Catholic invention meaning nothing.

When you say "scripture disagrees" you mean carrabios opinion of the meaning of scripture disagrees. And that is all.

There you go again it's "Carabbio's opinion". If you spell it wrong, nobody will know who you're talking about!!!!

BUT HEY!!! give us your "One true church's infallible meaning" of Eph 2:8,9.

I'll be waiting!!!

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Still waiting - HEY!!! You're the "One true Church", and YOU tell the rest of us savages what Scripture means!!!! SO tell us about Eph 2:8,9!!! IT TELLS US HOW WE ARE SAVED!!!! The "One True Church" should know about the don'cha think????

 

[Frank Russell]

 

[Ezra]

So it was a fair question? What is "ezranism" - what permutation of reformer beliefs do you hold? What do you believe about baptism, eucharist, priesthood, soteriology etc. Which group do you belong too? The groups are all different.
I belong to the first church that follows what those "sent to preach" believe with the power to "Bind and loose". Those who CHOSE your new testament (under divine inspiration of course) long after the faith was established by tradition...

I have noticed protestants are only too happy to attack catholicism, but then they get upset, when catholics point out the lack of foundation for what protestants believe. The total falsehood that is sola scriptura. But mostly I draw the line when such as carrabio knowingly and falsely misrepresent catholicism. It is why the myths about catholicism propagate.

solo scripture means scripture only i have noted you provided no scripture that shows purgatory that shows praying to Mary. i will hold with that please spare me the drama do proper defense i dont want your whiny slurs . give me scriptures the Bible says 1 Peter 3:15

But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:


give me scriptures praying to mary and purgatory . maybe just maybe you can explain john 3 ye MUST be BORN AGAIN which kick purgatory in the hinny . BTW i am not calvinist i am just a blood bought Child of the king who has been saved by his amazing Grace . you see when a person is born again/saved they become a new creation in Christ . purgatory is nothing more than a man mad fairy tale that sounds good.

someone can live like hell and when the die just give the priest some pay.. or donation to pray them out of hell into Heaven .. not going to happen and i can back every bitt of this up with solo scripture

 

[Ezra]

Either baptism is essential or it isn’t. It has effexts or it doesn’t.
And if it is, it must be done “ right”.

water Baptism follows salvation not precedes. the Blood of Jesus cleans us of our sins.. not water baptism is symbolic JUST LIKE COMMUNIOUN

 

[Ezra]

where did they go?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

EG Either baptism is essential or it isn’t.

SImple!!! Baptism IS NOT REQUIRED FOR SALVATION - FAITH IS Eph 2:8,9

It has effexts or it doesn’t.

SIMPLE - it's "Effect" is that it gets you WET, and you need to change clothes.

And if it is, it must be done “ right”.

"Baptise" is all you need to know. It means to "Whelm, or Overwhelm. A sinking ship is baptised by the ocean, Jesus DEATH was a baptism for him.

Wetting the top of a baby isn't a "Baptism" in any sense of the word.

 

[mikepec]

SImple!!! Baptism IS NOT REQUIRED FOR SALVATION - FAITH IS Eph 2:8,9

SIMPLE - it's "Effect" is that it gets you WET, and you need to change clothes.

"Baptise" is all you need to know. It means to "Whelm, or Overwhelm. A sinking ship is baptised by the ocean, Jesus DEATH was a baptism for him.

Wetting the top of a baby isn't a "Baptism" in any sense of the word.

ok . That’s one dimension of carrabionism., certainly unusual, and ahistorical putting you at odds with most of the church.

Meanwhile long before the church chose a New Testament , writing in the FIRST CENTURY only decades after Christ..
Clement of Rome describes the true faith handed down including necessity of baptism and baptismal regeneration.

A view shared by Catholics, orthodox, anglicans, Lutherans Etc Etc
Pretty much everyone but you,

Only when reformers went of the rails by all making up alternative meanings for scripture with no authority to do so was this ever challenged.

you are of course, entitled to Believe what you wish.
But don’t EVER pretend it is early church christianity.

You have a very niche “ designer” view of Christianity, the product of doing what you are told not to do: leaning on your own understanding, and not listening to those who were sent to preach.

When someone says “ are you saved?” The answer is, you started the journey with water baptism .
if you have not yet done so , I suggest you do: allow for the fact you may be wrong!

 

[Ezra]

When someone says “ are you saved?” The answer is, you started the journey with water baptism .
if you have not yet done so , I suggest you do: allow for the fact you may be wrong!

no you Started BY GRACE and grace alone water baptism is a work we do after salvation

 

[synergy]

Here's an excellent Bible-based explanation of the Intercession of Saints topic by Sam Shamoun who also destroys the "Mary = Goddess" strawman.

CC: @mikepec , @Bob Carabbio , @ezra , @Frank Russell ,@Johann , @dizerner , @Complete

 

[Ezra]

Here's an excellent Bible-based explanation of the Intercession of Saints topic by Sam Shamoun who also destroys the "Mary = Goddess" strawman.

CC: @mikepec , @Bob Carabbio , @ezra , @Frank Russell ,@Johann , @dizerner , @Complete

they cant