Yes both are called God and Yahweh or Jehovah
Thomas... My Lord and my God
- Thread starter Peterlag
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You are in serious denial
John 1:3 (LEB) — 3 All things came into being through him, and apart from him not one thing came into being that has come into being.
Colossians 1:13–18 (LEB) — 13 who has rescued us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of the Son he loves, 14 in whom we have the redemption, the forgiveness of sins, 15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation, 16 because all things in the heavens and on the earth were created by him, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers, all things were created through him and for him, 17 and he himself is before all things, and in him all things are held together, 18 and he himself is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that he himself may become first in everything,
Hebrews 1:7–10 (LEB) — 7 And concerning the angels he says, “The one who makes his angels winds, and his servants a flame of fire,” 8 but concerning the Son, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the scepter of righteous is the scepter of your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; because of this God, your God, has anointed you with the olive oil of joy more than your companions. 10 And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the works of your hands;
1 Corinthians 8:6 (LEB) — 6 yet to us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we are for him, and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we are through him.
Phil 2:6 was created to show personal pre-existence an issue which you have denied but do not deal with
hello
Peterlag
Well-known member
I don't know what serious denial means. Now one verse at a time. First John 1:3 that I see you have listed. “Everything came to be through it.” The logos is an “it” not a “him.” God made everything through and according to His logos, His plan and purpose, and with wisdom. The logos was God’s plan and purpose, especially as it was put into action.
Peterlag
Well-known member
There is no Scripture that says Jesus is not God. Why would there be Scripture like that since Jesus is not God.
I'm not sure what to do with a person who denies the obvious testimony of scripture. I shared of Jesus as the Word of God in Rev 19:13. This confirms the testimony in John 1 that the Word is Christ. The only reason to deny this is due to extreme bias against what scripture reveals.
Here again you just make claims which are not scripture, and you do not deal with what was stated
This is scripture
John 1:1–3 (KJV 1900) — 1 IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Hebrews 1:8–10 (KJV 1900) — 8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. 10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
Philippians 2:5–7 (KJV 1900) — 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
and it shows a personal existence before becoming flesh and it shows he created all things
you are not dealing with the scriptures or the argument posted
Sorry scripture does not state the word was an it
John 1:3 (LEB) — 3 All things came into being through him, and apart from him not one thing came into being that has come into being.
Colossians 1:13–18 (LEB) — 13 who has rescued us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of the Son he loves, 14 in whom we have the redemption, the forgiveness of sins, 15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation, 16 because all things in the heavens and on the earth were created by him, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers, all things were created through him and for him, 17 and he himself is before all things, and in him all things are held together, 18 and he himself is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that he himself may become first in everything,
Hebrews 1:7–10 (LEB) — 7 And concerning the angels he says, “The one who makes his angels winds, and his servants a flame of fire,” 8 but concerning the Son, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the scepter of righteous is the scepter of your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; because of this God, your God, has anointed you with the olive oil of joy more than your companions. 10 And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the works of your hands;
1 Corinthians 8:6 (LEB) — 6 yet to us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we are for him, and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we are through him.
Phil 2:6 was created to show personal pre-existence an issue which you have denied but do not deal with
as typical, you ignore scripture which points to Christ's previous existence as a personal being
further, you just deny all the verses showing he created all things, posting your ideas while ignoring scripture.
That is serious denial.
Peterlag
Well-known member
I have commented, not ignored your post. I have provided a Scripture. It's not that I did not provide a Scripture. It's that you do not like the Scripture I provided.
Peterlag
Well-known member
I have responded to this with Scripture. Jesus Christ is not a lexical definition of logos. The verse does not say "In the beginning was Jesus." The "logos" is an it. Not a him. For Scripture see John 1:1.
Reply
Of course this was addressed before. Analogy and metaphor introduce language that is not otherwise common. Also, Rev 19:13 specifically has Jesus named as the Word of God, thus corresponding with John 1. Consequently, your rejection of the straightforward approach in John 1, though a worthwhile experiment, does not stand scrutiny. You may not read this sense you have probably still blocked me.
If Jesus is the..
Alpha and Omega..in Revelation
Immanuel..God with us
The Word in John 1:1
The I AM.. in John
Lord.. in many other instances
Yahweh.. as the national God of Israel
The bright and morning star.. in Revelation
The Messiah..
The Everlasting Father
Then the case is closed.
Alpha and Omega..in Revelation
Immanuel..God with us
The Word in John 1:1
The I AM.. in John
Lord.. in many other instances
Yahweh.. as the national God of Israel
The bright and morning star.. in Revelation
The Messiah..
The Everlasting Father
Then the case is closed.
Again ignoring context which clearly shows the word became flesh and was identified as Jesus Christ
John 1:1–34 (LEB) — 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 This one was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through him, and apart from him not one thing came into being that has come into being. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of humanity. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not overcome it. 6 A man came, sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This one came for a witness, in order that he could testify about the light, so that all would believe through him. 8 That one was not the light, but came in order that he could testify about the light. 9 The true light, who gives light to every person, was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world came into being through him, and the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to his own things, and his own people did not receive him. 12 But as many as received him—to those who believe in his name—he gave to them authority to become children of God, 13 who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of a husband, but of God. 14 And the Word became flesh and took up residence among us, and we saw his glory, glory as of the one and only from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 John testified about him and cried out, saying, “This one was he about whom I said, ‘The one who comes after me is ahead of me, because he existed before me.’ ” 16 For from his fullness we have all received, and grace after grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came about through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has seen God at any time; the one and only, God, the one who is in the bosom of the Father—that one has made him known. 19 And this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem so that they could ask him, “Who are you?” 20 And he confessed—and he did not deny, and confessed—“I am not the Christ!” 21 And they asked him, “Then who are you? Are you Elijah?” And he said, “I am not!” “Are you the Prophet?” And he answered, “No!” 22 Then they said to him, “Who are you, so that we can give an answer to those who sent us? What do you say about yourself?” 23 He said, “I am ‘the voice of one crying out in the wilderness, “Make straight the way of the Lord,” ’ just as Isaiah the prophet said.” 24 (And they had been sent from the Pharisees.) 25 And they asked him and said to him, “Why then are you baptizing, if you are not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?” 26 John answered them, saying, “I baptize with water. In your midst stands one whom you do not know—27 the one who comes after me, of whom I am not worthy to untie the strap of his sandal!” 28 These things took place in Bethany on the other side of the Jordan, where John was baptizing. 29 On the next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, “Look! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! 30 This one is the one about whom I said, ‘After me is coming a man who is ahead of me, because he existed before me.’ 31 And I did not know him, but in order that he could be revealed to Israel, because of this I came baptizing with water.” 32 And John testified, saying, “I have seen the Spirit descending like a dove from heaven and remaining upon him. 33 And I did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water, that one said to me, ‘The one upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon him—this one is the one who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ 34 And I have seen and testify that this one is the Chosen One of God.
Nonsense
You address none of this
Sorry scripture does not state the word was an it
John 1:3 (LEB) — 3 All things came into being through him, and apart from him not one thing came into being that has come into being.
Colossians 1:13–18 (LEB) — 13 who has rescued us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of the Son he loves, 14 in whom we have the redemption, the forgiveness of sins, 15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation, 16 because all things in the heavens and on the earth were created by him, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers, all things were created through him and for him, 17 and he himself is before all things, and in him all things are held together, 18 and he himself is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that he himself may become first in everything,
Hebrews 1:7–10 (LEB) — 7 And concerning the angels he says, “The one who makes his angels winds, and his servants a flame of fire,” 8 but concerning the Son, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the scepter of righteous is the scepter of your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; because of this God, your God, has anointed you with the olive oil of joy more than your companions. 10 And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the works of your hands;
1 Corinthians 8:6 (LEB) — 6 yet to us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we are for him, and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we are through him.
Phil 2:6 was created to show personal pre-existence an issue which you have denied but do not deal with
as typical, you ignore scripture which points to Christ's previous existence as a personal being
further, you just deny all the verses showing he created all things, posting your ideas while ignoring scripture.
That is serious denial.
Peterlag
Well-known member
Here's another one where the translators translated it into him...
Almost every English version translates John 14:17 similarly to “even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him.” Translators capitalize “Spirit” and use “he” and “him” because of their theology. The Greek word “spirit” is neuter and the text could also be translated as “the spirit of truth” and paired with “which” and “it.” The New American Bible reads “which the world cannot accept, because it neither sees nor knows it.” Capitalizing the “H” and “S” and using the English pronoun “He” is appropriate when God is being referred to as “the Holy Spirit.” However, when we see the “h” and “s” having the lowercase such as "the holy spirit" and all the pronouns referring to that spirit being impersonal such as “it” and “which” is when the subject under discussion is the gift of God’s nature.
Peterlag
Well-known member
It's taught that Jesus must be God because he's called the “Lord.” The Greek word for Lord is kurios and is a masculine title of respect and nobility, which is why we see many others besides God and Jesus being called the “Lord."
- Property owners are called the "Lord" (Matthew 20:8) kurios is “owner” in the NIV.
- Heads of households are called the "Lord" (Mark 13:35) kuriosis "owner."
- Slave owners were called the "Lord" (Matthew 10:24) kuriosis "master."
- Husbands were called the "Lord" (1 Peter 3:6) kurios is "master" in the NIV.
- A son called his father the "Lord" (Matthew 21:30) kuriosis "sir."
- The Roman Emperor was called the "Lord" (Acts 25:26) kurios is "His Majesty."
- Roman authorities were called the "Lord" (Matthew 27:63) kurios is "sir."
dwight92070
Well-known member
You see scripture in a twisted way, so it is unwise to give much credit to your false "interpretation".
Michael Heiser does a great job of showing the passages in the OT. It is only 3 1/2 hours long
The Jewish Trinity - Dr Michael Heiser
Peterlag
Well-known member
But I have addressed it. You need to stop saying I'm not responding or I'm ignoring or I'm not addressing it and start saying I don't like how you addressed it or I don't agree with how you addressed it. Here it is again...
“Everything came to be through it.” The logos is an “it” not a “him.” God made everything through and according to His logos, His plan and purpose, and with wisdom. The logos was God’s plan and purpose especially as it was put into action.
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