Thomas... My Lord and my God

[Peterlag]

I put this on a couple of different Facebook Christian group sites @Pancho Frijoles

John 1:3
“Everything came to be through it.” The logos is an “it” not a “him.”

Translators have deliberately chosen to use “him” because they wanted to emphasize that the Word was the male person we know as Jesus. This was a theological choice, not a linguistic one.

Translators, on the other hand, retained the natural feminine gender of the Hebrew word chokmah (חָכְמָה) “wisdom” in the book of Proverbs.
“Do not forsake wisdom, and she will protect you; love her, and she will watch over you.” (Proverbs 4:6)

Was the Wisdom a distinct divine person?

So, for the same reason that Wisdom is not literally a person, Word is not literally a person.
Both the description in Proverbs and in John 1:1-3 are metaphorical.

Jesus is the personification of the Word because He speaks the words of The God. To listen to Jesus equals listening to the Word of God.

 

[TomL]

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Now who really is in denial? Interesting how both @Pancho Frijoles and myself posted the same thing back to back and neither one of us knew what the other was going to do.

You guys are in denial

Scripture employed a Greek masculine word to present the logos. There was an option to use a neuter word, but it was not used.

I posted this and you do not address it

Further I presented a Spanish translation which contradicted that poster

Between these facts and Phil 2:6ff you guys do not have a leg to stand on and demonstrate you are simply unwilling to heed scripture.

 

[TomL]

I put this on a couple of different Facebook Christian group sites @Pancho Frijoles

John 1:3
“Everything came to be through it.” The logos is an “it” not a “him.”

Translators have deliberately chosen to use “him” because they wanted to emphasize that the Word was the male person we know as Jesus. This was a theological choice, not a linguistic one.

.

Total nonsense as the Greek uses a masculine pronoun and the translators translate it properly as it appears in the Greek.

Your translation is not an honest one.

 

[TomL]

In these debates, TomL, it is important to avoid accusations of denial, calling God a liar, despising Scriptures, etc.
I don’t accuse you of denial for all the verses I quoted in post 1506.
You have presented some passages to support your view, that I will comment below, and I have presented others to support mine.

First, I would like to say that, in favor of the concept of The Father as the Creator

1. Thousands of years of Jewish monotheism, in which One Person is the Creator.
2. Statements from Jesus Himself. Jesus was a Jewish monotheist, just like the rabbi at the synagogue of your neighborhood.
3. A unequivocal Statement of Paul pointing to the Father as the origin of creation and Christ as the vehicle.
4. Statements from the Book of a revelation pointing out to the Father as the God of Jesus, and the Creator.

I would now consider those four verses you have kindly brought to the discussion:

• John 1:3 The Word is a vehicle, and that’s why the preposition “through” is used.
• 1 Corinthians 8:6. Christ is the vehicle: preposition “through” is used. In contrast, for God, who is The Father and Only The Father, preposition “from” is used.
• Colossians 1:16 also presents Christ as a vehicle. “For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.” (NIV) For Paul, as we saw in 1 Cor 8:6, Ther is only One God, the Father, who is the source of the creation while Lord Jesus is the vehicle of that creation.
• Hebrews 1:8-11 does not say that Jesus was the creator. The passage is quoting from the Tanakh, where the God of Israel, YHWH, is the only Creator. Pure Jewish monotheism.

Now p, if you don’t mind, it is your turn to comment on the six verses I mentioned in post 1506.
I would also like to ask you What was the role of The Father in Creation?

First dia (through) in John 1:3; 1 Cor 8:6 denotes agency or agent

So you have no argument for an impersonal thing there

Second is the choice of a personal noun and pronoun - Word and him (John 1:3). An impersonal word could have been employed if scripture desired to reveal an impersonal word

Regarding

Colossians 1:16 (LEB) — 16 because all things in the heavens and on the earth were created by him, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers, all things were created through him and for him,

It clearly shows Christ created

Finally the context of Heb 1:10

Hebrews 1:8–11 (NASB95) — 8 But of the Son He says, “YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM. 9 “YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS; THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS.” 10 And, “YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS; 11 THEY WILL PERISH, BUT YOU REMAIN; AND THEY ALL WILL BECOME OLD LIKE A GARMENT,

shows this to be said in regard to the son

You have presented a number of fallacious arguments which are plainly contrary to scripture









Through him and for him

What happened to your false claim of being an it

 

[TomL]

Hi TomL and @Johann

Thanks for your posts and explanations.
Translators have deliberately chosen to use “him”, because they wanted to emphasize that the Word was the male person we know as Jesus. This was a theological choice, not a linguistic one.
( In Spanish They have gone so far, that although La Palabra is feminine, translators preferred not to use “Ella” (She) but “Aquel Que es la Palabra” (“He who is the Word”)… something that is just absent from the text!)

Translators, on the other hand, retained the natural feminine gender of the Hebrew word chokmah (חָכְמָה), “wisdom” in the book of Proverbs, eas you know, in the book of Proverbs Wisdom speaks of herself as being always with God.
“Do not forsake wisdom, and she will protect you; love her, and she will watch over you.” (Proverbs 4:6)

Was the Wisdom a distinct divine person and, if so, did it have a true gender?
Could it be that Mormons are right, and we have an eternal Heavenly Mother who is presented in Proverbs as “the Wisdom”?

So, for the same reason that Wisdom is not literally a person, Word is not literally a person.
Both the description in Proverbs and in John 1:1-3 are metaphorical.
Do we all agree on the fact that Jewish monotheism does not admit more than one divine person?
Jesus is the personification of the Word because He speaks the words of The God. To listen to Jesus equals listening to the Word of God.
Jesus is the personification of the Light because He brings the knowledge of God that dissipates the darkness of sin and ignorance.

You are simply repeating previously posted error

Greek Masculine terms were selected for the Noun "word" and the pronoun "him"

A neuter noun could have been employed if scripture wanted to indicate the Word was impersonal

it was not

Further you do not address passages which clearly show a personal pre-existence

for example

Philippians 2:6–8 (NASB95) — 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Additionally I posted a Spanish translation which called into question your comments regarding the Spanish

La Palabra was not the chosen spanish for the word

A second did not either

All of which however is irrelevant as the Greek was inspired not the spanish

As for wisdom it is not stated that was the pre-existent Christ

 

[TomL]

You are brilliant.

Actually his comments are filled with error

T

Post in thread 'Thomas... My Lord and my God'

Sunday at 2:11 AM

Hi TomL and @Johann

Thanks for your posts and explanations.
Translators have deliberately chosen to use “him”, because they wanted to emphasize that the Word was the male person we know as Jesus. This was a theological choice, not a linguistic one.
( In Spanish They have gone so far, that although La Palabra is feminine, translators preferred not to use “Ella” (She) but “Aquel Que es la Palabra” (“He who is the Word”)… something that is just absent from the text!)

Translators, on the other hand, retained the natural feminine gender of the Hebrew word chokmah (חָכְמָה)...

• TomL

 

[Peterlag]

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You guys are in denial

Scripture employed a Greek masculine word to present the logos. There was an option to use a neuter word, but it was not used.

I posted this and you do not address it

Further I presented a Spanish translation which contradicted that poster

Between these facts and Phil 2:6ff you guys do not have a leg to stand on and demonstrate you are simply unwilling to heed scripture.

You don't seem to understand that in other languages they give words gender. We do it just a little in our culture, but only a little. We might say that ship on the ocean was big... yeah she was a beauty. By calling it a she does not mean the boat is a person or a living creature or part of the Godhead.

Five Bibles which were translated from the GREEK text before 1611 had the PRONOUN "IT" on John 1:3...

They are...

1.)Tyndale's New Testament
2.) Bishop's Bible
3.) Roger Matthew's Translation
4.) Great Bible
5) GENEVA Bible

 

[TomL]

You don't seem to understand that in other languages they give words gender. We do it just a little in our culture, but only a little. We might say that ship on the ocean was big... yeah she was a beauty. By calling it a she does not mean the boat is a person or a living creature or part of the Godhead.

Five Bibles which were translated from the GREEK text before 1611 had the PRONOUN "IT" on John 1:3...

They are...

1.)Tyndale's New Testament
2.) Bishop's Bible
3.) Roger Matthew's Translation
4.) Great Bible
5) GENEVA Bible

Lets get real

The only inspired translation we have is the Greek

The Greek employs a masculine and pronoun


(Greek NT BYZ+) πανταG3956 A-NPN διG1223 PREP αυτουG846 P-GSM εγενετοG1096 V-2ADI-3S καιG2532 CONJ χωριςG5565 ADV αυτουG846 P-GSM εγενετοG1096 V-2ADI-3S ουδεG3761 CONJ-N ενG1520 A-NSN οG3739 R-NSN γεγονενG1096 V-2RAI-3S

(Greek NT TR+) πανταG3956 A-NPN διG1223 PREP αυτουG846 P-GSM εγενετοG1096 V-2ADI-3S καιG2532 CONJ χωριςG5565 ADV αυτουG846 P-GSM εγενετοG1096 V-2ADI-3S ουδεG3761 CONJ-N ενG1520 A-NSN οG3739 R-NSN γεγονενG1096 V-2RAI-3S

(Greek NT WH+) πανταG3956 A-NPN διG1223 PREP αυτουG846 P-GSM εγενετοG1096 V-2ADI-3S καιG2532 CONJ χωριςG5565 ADV αυτουG846 P-GSM εγενετοG1096 V-2ADI-3S ουδεG3761 CONJ-N ενG1520 A-NSN οG3739 R-NSN γεγονενG1096 V-2RAI-3S

(G-NT-TR (Steph)+) παντα All things G3956 A-NPN δι by G1223 PREP αυτου him G846 P-GSM εγενετο were made G1096 V-2ADI-3S και and G2532 CONJ χωρις without G5565 ADV αυτου him G846 P-GSM εγενετο made G1096 V-2ADI-3S ουδε was not G3761 ADV εν any thing G1520 A-NSN ο that G3739 R-NSN γεγονεν was made. G1096 V-2RAI-3S

TNT2-Treg) πάντα δι᾽ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἕν. ὃ γέγονεν

and regarding Col 1:16

(Bishops) For by him were all thinges created, that are in heaue and that are in earth, visible and inuisible, whether [they be] maiestie or lordeshippe, either rule or power: All thynges were created by hym and for hym.

(Geneva) Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, which are in heauen, and which are in earth, thinges visible and inuisible: whether they be Thrones or Dominions, or Principalities, or Powers, all things were created by him, and for him,

(Tynedale)16 For by him were all thynges created thynges that are in heven and thynges that are in erth: thynges visible and thynges invisible: whether they be maieste or lordshippe ether rule or power. All thinges are creatyd by hym and in him

(Great) For by him were all thynges created, that are in heuen, and that are in erth: visyble and inuisyble, whether they be maieste or lorde shyppe, ether rule or power. All thynges were creatyd by hym and for hym,

Matthews bible also has him

you guys have quite selective about what evidence you will accept

case closed

 

[Peterlag]

Lets get real

The only inspired translation we have is the Greek

The Greek employs a masculine and pronoun


(Greek NT BYZ+) πανταG3956 A-NPN διG1223 PREP αυτουG846 P-GSM εγενετοG1096 V-2ADI-3S καιG2532 CONJ χωριςG5565 ADV αυτουG846 P-GSM εγενετοG1096 V-2ADI-3S ουδεG3761 CONJ-N ενG1520 A-NSN οG3739 R-NSN γεγονενG1096 V-2RAI-3S

(Greek NT TR+) πανταG3956 A-NPN διG1223 PREP αυτουG846 P-GSM εγενετοG1096 V-2ADI-3S καιG2532 CONJ χωριςG5565 ADV αυτουG846 P-GSM εγενετοG1096 V-2ADI-3S ουδεG3761 CONJ-N ενG1520 A-NSN οG3739 R-NSN γεγονενG1096 V-2RAI-3S

(Greek NT WH+) πανταG3956 A-NPN διG1223 PREP αυτουG846 P-GSM εγενετοG1096 V-2ADI-3S καιG2532 CONJ χωριςG5565 ADV αυτουG846 P-GSM εγενετοG1096 V-2ADI-3S ουδεG3761 CONJ-N ενG1520 A-NSN οG3739 R-NSN γεγονενG1096 V-2RAI-3S

(G-NT-TR (Steph)+) παντα All things G3956 A-NPN δι by G1223 PREP αυτου him G846 P-GSM εγενετο were made G1096 V-2ADI-3S και and G2532 CONJ χωρις without G5565 ADV αυτου him G846 P-GSM εγενετο made G1096 V-2ADI-3S ουδε was not G3761 ADV εν any thing G1520 A-NSN ο that G3739 R-NSN γεγονεν was made. G1096 V-2RAI-3S

TNT2-Treg) πάντα δι᾽ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἕν. ὃ γέγονεν

and regarding Col 1:16

(Bishops) For by him were all thinges created, that are in heaue and that are in earth, visible and inuisible, whether [they be] maiestie or lordeshippe, either rule or power: All thynges were created by hym and for hym.

(Geneva) Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, which are in heauen, and which are in earth, thinges visible and inuisible: whether they be Thrones or Dominions, or Principalities, or Powers, all things were created by him, and for him,

(Tynedale)16 For by him were all thynges created thynges that are in heven and thynges that are in erth: thynges visible and thynges invisible: whether they be maieste or lordshippe ether rule or power. All thinges are creatyd by hym and in him

(Great) For by him were all thynges created, that are in heuen, and that are in erth: visyble and inuisyble, whether they be maieste or lorde shyppe, ether rule or power. All thynges were creatyd by hym and for hym,

Matthews bible also has him

you guys have quite selective about what evidence you will accept

case closed

I already told you Colossians 1:16 is referring to Thrones, Dominions, Principalities, and Powers. Not all things in the universe. But your brain is stuck on something that is not there and you can't see past it.

 

[TomL]

I already told you Colossians 1:16 is referring to Thrones, Dominions, Principalities, and Powers. Not all things in the universe. But your brain is stuck on something that is not there and you can't see past it.

Colossians 1:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

When were all things in heaven created?
When were all things in the earth created

and

1 Corinthians 8:6 (LEB) — 6 yet to us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we are for him, and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we are through him.

Lets get real

The only inspired translation we have is the Greek

The Greek employs a masculine and pronoun


(Greek NT BYZ+) πανταG3956 A-NPN διG1223 PREP αυτουG846 P-GSM εγενετοG1096 V-2ADI-3S καιG2532 CONJ χωριςG5565 ADV αυτουG846 P-GSM εγενετοG1096 V-2ADI-3S ουδεG3761 CONJ-N ενG1520 A-NSN οG3739 R-NSN γεγονενG1096 V-2RAI-3S

(Greek NT TR+) πανταG3956 A-NPN διG1223 PREP αυτουG846 P-GSM εγενετοG1096 V-2ADI-3S καιG2532 CONJ χωριςG5565 ADV αυτουG846 P-GSM εγενετοG1096 V-2ADI-3S ουδεG3761 CONJ-N ενG1520 A-NSN οG3739 R-NSN γεγονενG1096 V-2RAI-3S

(Greek NT WH+) πανταG3956 A-NPN διG1223 PREP αυτουG846 P-GSM εγενετοG1096 V-2ADI-3S καιG2532 CONJ χωριςG5565 ADV αυτουG846 P-GSM εγενετοG1096 V-2ADI-3S ουδεG3761 CONJ-N ενG1520 A-NSN οG3739 R-NSN γεγονενG1096 V-2RAI-3S

(G-NT-TR (Steph)+) παντα All things G3956 A-NPN δι by G1223 PREP αυτου him G846 P-GSM εγενετο were made G1096 V-2ADI-3S και and G2532 CONJ χωρις without G5565 ADV αυτου him G846 P-GSM εγενετο made G1096 V-2ADI-3S ουδε was not G3761 ADV εν any thing G1520 A-NSN ο that G3739 R-NSN γεγονεν was made. G1096 V-2RAI-3S

TNT2-Treg) πάντα δι᾽ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἕν. ὃ γέγονεν

and regarding Col 1:16

(Bishops) For by him were all thinges created, that are in heaue and that are in earth, visible and inuisible, whether [they be] maiestie or lordeshippe, either rule or power: All thynges were created by hym and for hym.

(Geneva) Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, which are in heauen, and which are in earth, thinges visible and inuisible: whether they be Thrones or Dominions, or Principalities, or Powers, all things were created by him, and for him,

(Tynedale)16 For by him were all thynges created thynges that are in heven and thynges that are in erth: thynges visible and thynges invisible: whether they be maieste or lordshippe ether rule or power. All thinges are creatyd by hym and in him

(Great) For by him were all thynges created, that are in heuen, and that are in erth: visyble and inuisyble, whether they be maieste or lorde shyppe, ether rule or power. All thynges were creatyd by hym and for hym,

Matthews bible also has him

you guys have quite selective about what evidence you will accept

case closed

 

[mikesw]

Colossians 1:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

When were all things in heaven created?
When were all things in the earth created

and

1 Corinthians 8:6 (LEB) — 6 yet to us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we are for him, and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we are through him.

The other point to contest Peterlag, who has blocked me, is that thrones, dominions, principalities, and powers existed before the Son of God became incarnate among the Jews. It is not like these rulers, dominions, and whatnot came into existence the moment Jesus was born. All of these examples are not to express the breadth of what the Son of God has created. Instead, the list is likely to indicate that the suffering the Colossians encounter by the government authorities have a purpose of Christ Jesus but are still subjected to him. So Peterlag's misconception of scripture fails to make contextual sense.

 

[TomL]

The other point to contest Peterlag, who has blocked me, is that thrones, dominions, principalities, and powers existed before the Son of God became incarnate among the Jews. It is not like these rulers, dominions, and whatnot came into existence the moment Jesus was born. All of these examples are not to express the breadth of what the Son of God has created. Instead, the list is likely to indicate that the suffering the Colossians encounter by the government authorities have a purpose of Christ Jesus but are still subjected to him. So Peterlag's misconception of scripture fails to make contextual sense.

Yes and alluded to here

When were all things in heaven created?
When were all things in the earth created?

 

[Peterlag]

Colossians 1:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

When were all things in heaven created?
When were all things in the earth created

and

1 Corinthians 8:6 (LEB) — 6 yet to us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we are for him, and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we are through him.

All things in heaven and earth that deal with the Thrones, Dominions, Principalities, and Powers that Jesus will need to rule his kingdom.

 

[TomL]

All things in heaven and earth that deal with the Thrones, Dominions, Principalities, and Powers that Jesus will need to rule his kingdom.

Um angels are powers which were created before man
Thrones existed before the word became man
ETC

But nothing is stated about what Jesus will need to rule his kingdom

You are adding to the word of God because you do not want to believe scripture as it exists

 

[Peterlag]

Um angels are powers which were created before man
Thrones existed before the word became man
ETC

But nothing is stated about what Jesus will need to rule his kingdom

You are adding to the word of God because you do not want to believe scripture as it exists

We don't know what powers and might and dominion is subject to Christ. Even Ephesians mentions them...

Ephesians1:20-21
Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

 

[TomL]

We don't know what powers and might and dominion is subject to Christ. Even Ephesians mentions them...

Ephesians1:20-21
Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

Sorry, nothing there is stating such things coming into existence after the word became flesh

John 1:3 (UASV) — 3 All things came into being through him, and apart from him, not one thing came into being that has come into being.

and you cannot deny

Colossians 1:16 (UASV) — 16 For by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities, all things have been created through him and for him.

that Earthly rulers and authorities existed before Christ became flesh so his pre-existence is rather obvious

just as in

Philippians 2:5–9 (UASV) — 5 Have this mind in yourselves, which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name,

which you do not address

 

[Peterlag]

Sorry, nothing there is stating such things coming into existence after the word became flesh

John 1:3 (UASV) — 3 All things came into being through him, and apart from him, not one thing came into being that has come into being.

and you cannot deny

Colossians 1:16 (UASV) — 16 For by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities, all things have been created through him and for him.

that Earthly rulers and authorities existed before Christ became flesh so his pre-existence is rather obvious

just as in

Philippians 2:5–9 (UASV) — 5 Have this mind in yourselves, which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name,

which you do not address

The Word did not become flesh and powers, might and dominion is concerning Colossians 1:16 that you keep quoting and here's Philippians 2:6 that you keep quoting...

Philippians 2:6 is not a teaching on the trinity or that we should confess or believe that Jesus is God. From the Septuagint and their other writings, the Jews were familiar with morphē referring to the outward appearance, including the form of men and idols. To the Greeks, it also referred to the outward appearance, including the changing outward appearance of their gods and the form of statues. The only other New Testament use of morphē outside Philippians is in Mark, and there it refers to the outward appearance. Also, the words related to morphē clearly refer to an outward manifestation or appearance. The word morphē refers to an outward appearance or manifestation. Jesus Christ was in the outward appearance of God, so much so that he said, “He who has seen me has seen the Father.” Christ always did the Father’s will, and perfectly represented his Father in every way.

 

[TomL]

The Word did not become flesh and powers, might and dominion is concerning Colossians 1:16 that you keep quoting and here's Philippians 2:6 that you keep quoting...

Philippians 2:6 is not a teaching on the trinity or that we should confess or believe that Jesus is God. From the Septuagint and their other writings, the Jews were familiar with morphē referring to the outward appearance, including the form of men and idols. To the Greeks, it also referred to the outward appearance, including the changing outward appearance of their gods and the form of statues. The only other New Testament use of morphē outside Philippians is in Mark, and there it refers to the outward appearance. Also, the words related to morphē clearly refer to an outward manifestation or appearance. The word morphē refers to an outward appearance or manifestation. Jesus Christ was in the outward appearance of God, so much so that he said, “He who has seen me has seen the Father.” Christ always did the Father’s will, and perfectly represented his Father in every way.

There you go again avoiding the point

The Point of Phil 2:6 is personal pre-existence

Philippians 2:6–9 (NASB95) — 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,

You have not addressed it

As for your statement

The Word did not become flesh and powers, might and dominion is concerning Colossians 1:16 that you keep quoting
The word became flesh
John 1:14 (NASB95) — 14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

No one argued he became powers, might and dominion. Why you make such a statement is hard to determine

The point was if all these were created by him and these things existed before the word became flesh he obviously pre-existed those things.

 

[Peterlag]

There you go again avoiding the point

The Point of Phil 2:6 is personal pre-existence

Philippians 2:6–9 (NASB95) — 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,

You have not addressed it

As for your statement

The Word did not become flesh and powers, might and dominion is concerning Colossians 1:16 that you keep quoting
The word became flesh
John 1:14 (NASB95) — 14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

No one argued he became powers, might and dominion. Why you make such a statement is hard to determine

The point was if all these were created by him and these things existed before the word became flesh he obviously pre-existed those things.

If Jesus emptied something it was his right to be a prince. And thereby he humbled himself in that way. He did not empty his godhead.

 

[TomL]

If Jesus emptied something it was his right to be a prince. And thereby he humbled himself in that way. He did not empty his godhead.

You are dodging the point

He existed in the form of God before becoming flesh

And he had and mind and could consider

Philippians 2:5–7 (LEB) — 5 Think this in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, existing in the form of God, did not consider being equal with God something to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself by taking the form of a slave, by becoming in the likeness of people. And being found in appearance like a man,