Thomas... My Lord and my God

[TomL]

The word of the Lord means God spoke to someone. There's no thing called the word. It's not that I'm not willing to address the above. It's I don't understand what you are referring to. If we say the word of the boss means don't touch the box until Monday. That would not mean there's two of our boss.

Sorry, you fail to deal with scripture which exhibits the word as a personal being

John 1:1–17 (NASB95) — 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. 6 There came a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him. 8 He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light. 9 There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 John testified about Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.’ ” 16 For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace. 17 For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.

Philippians 2:4–8 (NASB95) — 4 do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others. 5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Who was involved in the creation of all things

John 1:3 (LEB) — 3 All things came into being through him, and apart from him not one thing came into being that has come into being.

Colossians 1:16 (LEB) — 16 because all things in the heavens and on the earth were created by him, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers, all things were created through him and for him,

Hebrews 1:2 (LEB) — 2 in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the world,

Hebrews 1:10 (LEB) — 10 And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the works of your hands;

1 Corinthians 8:6 (LEB) — 6 yet to us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we are for him, and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we are through him.

 

[mikesw]

Sorry, you fail to deal with scripture which exhibits the word as a personal being

John 1:1–17 (NASB95) — 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. 6 There came a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him. 8 He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light. 9 There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 John testified about Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.’ ” 16 For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace. 17 For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.

Philippians 2:4–8 (NASB95) — 4 do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others. 5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Who was involved in the creation of all things

John 1:3 (LEB) — 3 All things came into being through him, and apart from him not one thing came into being that has come into being.

Colossians 1:16 (LEB) — 16 because all things in the heavens and on the earth were created by him, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers, all things were created through him and for him,

Hebrews 1:2 (LEB) — 2 in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the world,

Hebrews 1:10 (LEB) — 10 And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the works of your hands;

1 Corinthians 8:6 (LEB) — 6 yet to us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we are for him, and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we are through him.

Indeed since Christ has created all things in the heavens and on the earth per Col 1:16, there is no reason to disconnect John 1:3 from description of Christ Jesus. Of course in John 1 alone, there is no reason to separate the ongoing details (Word, light, etc...) from Christ Jesus.

 

[Peterlag]

Sorry, you fail to deal with scripture which exhibits the word as a personal being

John 1:1–17 (NASB95) — 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. 6 There came a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him. 8 He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light. 9 There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 John testified about Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.’ ” 16 For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace. 17 For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.

Philippians 2:4–8 (NASB95) — 4 do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others. 5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Who was involved in the creation of all things

John 1:3 (LEB) — 3 All things came into being through him, and apart from him not one thing came into being that has come into being.

Colossians 1:16 (LEB) — 16 because all things in the heavens and on the earth were created by him, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers, all things were created through him and for him,

Hebrews 1:2 (LEB) — 2 in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the world,

Hebrews 1:10 (LEB) — 10 And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the works of your hands;

1 Corinthians 8:6 (LEB) — 6 yet to us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we are for him, and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we are through him.

It's not that I fail to deal with Scripture because there's no Scripture that says "words" are living things. This should have been taught in first grade. You keep quoting John 1:1 like if God speaking becomes another living creature called speaking. Jesus spoke the Word of God so well being the son of God that he is called the Word in the flesh.

 

[TomL]

It's not that I fail to deal with Scripture because there's no Scripture that says "words" are living things. This should have been taught in first grade. You keep quoting John 1:1 like if God speaking becomes another living creature called speaking. Jesus spoke the Word of God so well being the son of God that he is called the Word in the flesh.

There you go again. No one said anything about words. Scripture speaks of the Word

The Word is revealed as a personal being in both the New and the Old Testament

John 1:1–17 (NASB95) — 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. 6 There came a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him. 8 He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light. 9 There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 John testified about Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.’ ” 16 For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace. 17 For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.

Philippians 2:4–8 (NASB95) — 4 do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others. 5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Who was involved in the creation of all things

John 1:3 (LEB) — 3 All things came into being through him, and apart from him not one thing came into being that has come into being.

Colossians 1:16 (LEB) — 16 because all things in the heavens and on the earth were created by him, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers, all things were created through him and for him,

Hebrews 1:2 (LEB) — 2 in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the world,

Hebrews 1:10 (LEB) — 10 And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the works of your hands;

1 Corinthians 8:6 (LEB) — 6 yet to us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we are for him, and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we are through him.

Old testament references previously quoted

You are avoiding scripture.

 

[TomL]

Indeed since Christ has created all things in the heavens and on the earth per Col 1:16, there is no reason to disconnect John 1:3 from description of Christ Jesus. Of course in John 1 alone, there is no reason to separate the ongoing details (Word, light, etc...) from Christ Jesus.

One has to either ignore context or just not believe scripture to hold to that.

 

[dwight92070]

The Deity of Jesus is proven in one passage alone. Yet those with hardened hearts or those who are "tares among the wheat" will not acknowledge that, because they are planted by the devil.

Jesus MADE (the literal word is compelled) His disciples get into the boat and "go ahead of Him to the other side". Then sometime between 3 a.m. and 6 a.m. He comes to them, walking on the storm-tossed water, and commands Peter to come to Him on that same violent water - and when Jesus and Peter got into the boat, the wind miraculously stops. The disciples were so struck with amazement and awe, that they fell at Jesus' feet and worshiped Him, saying, "You are certainly God's Son!" Matthew 14:22-33

Were they saying that He was God's Son in the same sense that WE are the children of God? Of course not! We know that because they fell on their faces before Him and worshiped Him, which was forbidden by the Law, UNLESS you are worshiping God Himself. We are called sons of God, but we are not worthy of worship, because we are not God. But He was and is.

Did Jesus rebuke them and warn them NOT to commit idolatry by worshiping Him? NO! He had NO PROBLEM with His disciples or anyone worshiping Him! Why? Because He knew they were NOT committing idolatry, but were IN FACT worshiping God.

 

[dwight92070]

There are literally scores of passages that prove His deity. But the hard-hearted and the "tares"will reject ALL of them. Is it just a coincidence that the three persons of the Godhead, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, are mentioned TOGETHER (at the same time) at least 164 times in the New Testament? I say "at least", because I may have missed some.

 

[Peterlag]

There you go again. No one said anything about words. Scripture speaks of the Word

The Word is revealed as a personal being in both the New and the Old Testament

John 1:1–17 (NASB95) — 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. 6 There came a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him. 8 He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light. 9 There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 John testified about Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.’ ” 16 For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace. 17 For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.

Philippians 2:4–8 (NASB95) — 4 do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others. 5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Who was involved in the creation of all things

John 1:3 (LEB) — 3 All things came into being through him, and apart from him not one thing came into being that has come into being.

Colossians 1:16 (LEB) — 16 because all things in the heavens and on the earth were created by him, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers, all things were created through him and for him,

Hebrews 1:2 (LEB) — 2 in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the world,

Hebrews 1:10 (LEB) — 10 And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the works of your hands;

1 Corinthians 8:6 (LEB) — 6 yet to us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we are for him, and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we are through him.

Old testament references previously quoted

You are avoiding scripture.

The word of Peterlag is my words. If I give you my word that it will be done. Then that's my word. They are my words. God speaks His Words that are written down. There's no record of Him ever directly speaking to anyone. It's either from an angel, or a prophet or through His son Jesus Christ. A word or words are not living creatures. They taught this to me in first grade. I can't even communicate with Mikesw anymore because his mind is too far gone not being able to understand the most basic concepts of the Scriptures. And I fear the same about you if you think words or a word or my word or the word from God or the word of the Lord are another living creature.

 

[mikesw]

The word of Peterlag is my words. If I give you my word that it will be done. Then that's my word. They are my words. God speaks His Words that are written down. There's no record of Him ever directly speaking to anyone. It's either from an angel, or a prophet or through His son Jesus Christ. A word or words are not living creatures. They taught this to me in first grade. I can't even communicate with Mikesw anymore because his mind is too far gone not being able to understand the most basic concepts of the Scriptures. And I fear the same about you if you think words or a word or my word or the word from God or the word of the Lord are another living creature.

You just do not like that I deny hyper-literalism where its advocates deny the testimony of scripture. You have not an argument sufficient for me too to deny the testimony of scripture. Now you are denying the passages others show of the divinity of Christ. Again on the "word," you deny the ability of scripture to use analogy and metaphor. Then you seemed to deny the benefit of the OT for developing doctrine -- if that is what you meant in the recent interaction.
You say God does not speak directly to anyone. However, that is what several passages presented. But this may be the Son speaking, the Angel of the Lord. The angel is a messenger just as the logos can refer to the message. But even more than being a messenger, John 1 shows Jesus is the very message of God when among humanity.
Note though the Peterlag may be blocking me.

 

[dwight92070]

You just do not like that I deny hyper-literalism where its advocates deny the testimony of scripture. You have not an argument sufficient for me too to deny the testimony of scripture. Now you are denying the passages others show of the divinity of Christ. Again on the "word," you deny the ability of scripture to use analogy and metaphor. Then you seemed to deny the benefit of the OT for developing doctrine -- if that is what you meant in the recent interaction.
You say God does not speak directly to anyone. However, that is what several passages presented. But this may be the Son speaking, the Angel of the Lord. The angel is a messenger just as the logos can refer to the message. But even more than being a messenger, John 1 shows Jesus is the very message of God when among humanity.
Note though the Peterlag may be blocking me.

Yes, Peterlag doesn't like to respond when your post basically proves him wrong.

 

[Peterlag]

Yes, Peterlag doesn't like to respond when your post basically proves him wrong.

If I don't respond it's because I don't read it. And I don't read it from folks who are just nasty. Rude in the way they talk to others. Attack and accuse me personally like the way a devil spirit would.

 

[TomL]

The word of Peterlag is my words. If I give you my word that it will be done. Then that's my word. They are my words. God speaks His Words that are written down. There's no record of Him ever directly speaking to anyone. It's either from an angel, or a prophet or through His son Jesus Christ. A word or words are not living creatures. They taught this to me in first grade. I can't even communicate with Mikesw anymore because his mind is too far gone not being able to understand the most basic concepts of the Scriptures. And I fear the same about you if you think words or a word or my word or the word from God or the word of the Lord are another living creature.

Still avoiding scripture

You were given what scripture had to say about the Word and you do not deal with it

There you go again. No one said anything about words. Scripture speaks of the Word

The Word is revealed as a personal being in both the New and the Old Testament

John 1:1–17 (NASB95) — 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. 6 There came a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him. 8 He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light. 9 There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 John testified about Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.’ ” 16 For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace. 17 For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.

Philippians 2:4–8 (NASB95) — 4 do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others. 5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Who was involved in the creation of all things

John 1:3 (LEB) — 3 All things came into being through him, and apart from him not one thing came into being that has come into being.

Colossians 1:16 (LEB) — 16 because all things in the heavens and on the earth were created by him, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers, all things were created through him and for him,

Hebrews 1:2 (LEB) — 2 in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the world,

Hebrews 1:10 (LEB) — 10 And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the works of your hands;

1 Corinthians 8:6 (LEB) — 6 yet to us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we are for him, and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we are through him.

Old testament references previously quoted

 

[Peterlag]

Still avoiding scripture

You were given what scripture had to say about the Word and you do not deal with it

I deal with the Scripture of John 1:1 all the time. What you do along with Mikesw is ignore what I post and then later say I did not respond. The devil spirits act the same way. Here is what I posted in detail months ago that you say I do not deal with...

Thread 'Data on John 1:1'

Oct 21, 2024

This is all the data I could find on John 1:1. Enjoy...

“In the beginning.” There are elements of John 1:1 and other phrases in the introduction of John that remind us of God’s original creation while referring to the work of restoration done by Jesus Christ in the new administration and the new creation. Genesis 1 refers to God’s original creation; John 1 refers to the Restoration, not the original creation.

While we agree with the Catechism that the meaning of “beginning” in John 1:1 refers to the beginning of the Gospel and the restoration of...

• Peterlag
• Replies: 596
• Forum: The Trinity

 

[TomL]

I deal with the Scripture of John 1:1 all the time. What you do along with Mikesw is ignore what I post and then later say I did not respond. The devil spirits act the same way. Here is what I posted in detail months ago that you say I do not deal with...

Thread 'Data on John 1:1'

Oct 21, 2024

This is all the data I could find on John 1:1. Enjoy...

“In the beginning.” There are elements of John 1:1 and other phrases in the introduction of John that remind us of God’s original creation while referring to the work of restoration done by Jesus Christ in the new administration and the new creation. Genesis 1 refers to God’s original creation; John 1 refers to the Restoration, not the original creation.

While we agree with the Catechism that the meaning of “beginning” in John 1:1 refers to the beginning of the Gospel and the restoration of...

• Peterlag
• Replies: 596
• Forum: The Trinity

Nope you failed to deal with the fact that the word who became flesh is identified as Jesus Christ and shown to be a personal being by scripture and simply post your views without actually exegeting scripture.

 

[Peterlag]

Nope you failed to deal with the fact that the word who became flesh is identified as Jesus Christ and shown to be a personal being by scripture and simply post your views without actually exegeting scripture.

The only way you will believe I'm handling the Word of God properly is if I teach Jesus is God also called the Word who created all things. Then you will say Amen but that would be teaching the doctrine of devils that you and Mikesw so enjoy.

 

[dwight92070]

The only way you will believe I'm handling the Word of God properly is if I teach Jesus is God also called the Word who created all things. Then you will say Amen but that would be teaching the doctrine of devils that you and Mikesw so enjoy.

Now who's being nasty? Rude and attacking TomL and Mikesw personally, accusing them of enjoying the teaching of the doctrine of devils? Before you judge others, you need to check your own behavior first, lest you be found a hypocrite.

 

[TomL]

The only way you will believe I'm handling the Word of God properly is if I teach Jesus is God also called the Word who created all things. Then you will say Amen but that would be teaching the doctrine of devils that you and Mikesw so enjoy.

The only way I will believe you is if you actually exegete scripture rather than extolling your views contrary to scripture

This is in fact scripture

Jesus is God also called the Word who created all things

And you simply deny it without any real attempt to deal with what it actually shows.

 

[TomL]

I deal with the Scripture of John 1:1 all the time. What you do along with Mikesw is ignore what I post and then later say I did not respond. The devil spirits act the same way. Here is what I posted in detail months ago that you say I do not deal with...

Thread 'Data on John 1:1'

Oct 21, 2024

This is all the data I could find on John 1:1. Enjoy...

“In the beginning.” There are elements of John 1:1 and other phrases in the introduction of John that remind us of God’s original creation while referring to the work of restoration done by Jesus Christ in the new administration and the new creation. Genesis 1 refers to God’s original creation; John 1 refers to the Restoration, not the original creation.

While we agree with the Catechism that the meaning of “beginning” in John 1:1 refers to the beginning of the Gospel and the restoration of...

• Peterlag
• Replies: 596
• Forum: The Trinity

What you do is extol your view, reading it into scripture. You do not exegete scripture.

That is an extremely poor way of handling scripture.

 

[dwight92070]

What you do is extol your view, reading it into scripture. You do not exegete scripture.

That is an extremely poor way of handling scripture.

Peterlag says that John 1 "In the beginning" refers to the Restoration done by Jesus in the new administration and the new creation. What Peterlag is doing here is exactly what TomL just said (above). He is extolling his view, reading it into scripture vs. exegeting the passage.

Not only is it a poor way of handling scripture, it twists the truth of scripture, to make it say something that it does not say.

Nobody is denying that Jesus brought about the new spiritual creation of being born again and a new spiritual administration where Jesus is Lord.

But John 1, in context, IS NOT talking about that. IT IS speaking of the original creation. We see that clearly in verse 2: "He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him - (the first Creation), and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being (the physical universe)."

Obviously this was at least 4,000 years before the beginning of the gospel.

So why does he want to misinterpret it that way? Primarily so He can say that Jesus did not pre-exist before His birth in Bethlehem. This would also necessitate that the Word is something other than Jesus Himself, which also contradicts the passage. The Word is called "Him" twice in verse 3 and once in verse 4. Also "the Word became FLESH and dwelt among us, and we saw HIS glory."

"John testified about HIM ... This was HE of whom I said, HE who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for HE EXISTED BEFORE ME." John was born 6 months before Jesus - yet John says that Jesus EXISTED BEFORE ME, confirming Jesus' pre-existence.

The Word is a "HE". HE became FLESH. NOTHING was created apart from HIM. HE EXISTED BEFORE John the Baptist. In fact HE WAS IN THE BEGINNING WITH GOD. IN FACT HE WAS GOD back then, and HE IS STILL GOD TODAY.

 

[Peterlag]

What you do is extol your view, reading it into scripture. You do not exegete scripture.

That is an extremely poor way of handling scripture.

There's no trinity so I can't find Scripture that teaches against the trinity. There's nothing there on the trinity. All I can do is handle the Scripture that you think is there. So All I have is based on what I think is in your mind.