If .. then...

[amazing grace]

Ignoring the attributes Jesus has that put Him on level with the Father

Nobody is ignoring anything --- Jesus is the Messiah which means he is not God.
Jesus was NOT on the level with God his Father -
And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. [Matt. 28:18]
Jesus was given authority.

But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God. [1 Cor. 11:3]
The head of Christ is God - God is OVER Christ not 'level with'.

 

[praise_yeshua]

A really common thing is for scripture to call Jesus - Jesus Christ, Jesus the Messiah.
Jesus admitted to being the Messiah ---- the Messiah is NOT God - He is the Lord's Christ, the Lord's Messiah - God's Christ.
And whatever authority Jesus has --- it was given to him by his Father, his God.

I can't help but see "there can only be one" person in your theology of God.

Sounds familiar to what Satan believes. Will Satan share anything with anyone else?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Nobody is ignoring anything --- Jesus is the Messiah which means he is not God.
Jesus was NOT on the level with God his Father -
And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. [Matt. 28:18]
Jesus was given authority.

But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God. [1 Cor. 11:3]
The head of Christ is God - God is OVER Christ not 'level with'.

Do you have access to the Father through Jesus Christ or not?

Who is between you and "god"?

Do you serve God directly?

 

[TomL]

A really common thing is for scripture to call Jesus - Jesus Christ, Jesus the Messiah.
Jesus admitted to being the Messiah ---- the Messiah is NOT God - He is the Lord's Christ, the Lord's Messiah - God's Christ.
And whatever authority Jesus has --- it was given to him by his Father, his God.

John 1:1 (NASB 95) — 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:18 (NASB 95) — 18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

John 20:28–29 (NASB 95) — 28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus said to him,
“Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.”

Matthew 1:23 (NASB 95) — 23 “BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL,” which translated means, “GOD WITH US.”

Acts 2:36–39 (NASB 95) — 36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified.” 37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?” 38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.”

Acts 20:28 (NASB 95) — 28 Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

Titus 2:13 (NASB 95) — 13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

Hebrews 1:3 (NASB 95) — 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

Hebrews 1:8 (NASB 95) — 8 But of the Son He says, “YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.

Hebrews 1:9 (NASB 95) — 9 “YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS; THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS.”

Hebrews 1:10 (NASB 95) — 10 And, “YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;

2 Peter 1:1 (NASB 95) — 1 Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:

1 John 5:20 (NASB 95) — 20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

2 Corinthians 4:4 (NASB 95) — 4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Philippians 2:6–7 (NASB 95) — 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

Isaiah 7:14 (NASB 95) — 14 Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

Isaiah 9:6 (NASB 95) — 6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Colossians 2:9 (NASB 95) — 9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

 

[360watt]

Nobody is ignoring anything --- Jesus is the Messiah which means he is not God.
Jesus was NOT on the level with God his Father -
And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. [Matt. 28:18]
Jesus was given authority.

But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God. [1 Cor. 11:3]
The head of Christ is God - God is OVER Christ not 'level with'.

And Jesus could forgive sin itself, accept worship...redefine what could be done on Sabbath and He saw Nathaneal when He was no where near Nathaneal.

 

[civic]

And Jesus could forgive sin itself, accept worship...redefine what could be done on Sabbath and He saw Nathaneal when He was no where near Nathaneal.

Just an ordinary man like the rest of us who just happened to be the only sinless human in history.

Man is crazy to think how some can think that way isn’t it.

 

[amazing grace]

And Jesus could forgive sin itself, accept worship...redefine what could be done on Sabbath and He saw Nathaneal when He was no where near Nathaneal.

Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: [Acts 2:22]

 

[amazing grace]

Just an ordinary man like the rest of us who just happened to be the only sinless human in history.

Man is crazy to think how some can think that way isn’t it.

Seems that is what scripture teaches.
“Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know— [Acts 2:22]

Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. [Hebrews 2:17]

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. [Hebrews 4:15]

Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’” [John 20:17]

The disciples were his brothers - those who follow him and believe in him are his brothers - Jesus' Father is our Father and Jesus' God is our God.

 

[civic]

Seems that is what scripture teaches.
“Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know— [Acts 2:22]

Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. [Hebrews 2:17]

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. [Hebrews 4:15]

Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’” [John 20:17]

The disciples were his brothers - those who follow him and believe in him are his brothers - Jesus' Father is our Father and Jesus' God is our God.

So you are equal with Jesus and the only difference between you and Him is you have sinned and Jesus did not ?

 

[praise_yeshua]

So you are equal with Jesus and the only difference between you and Him is you have sinned and Jesus did not ?

It almost always ends right here with the Unitarian claiming to be equal to Jesus.

 

[360watt]

It almost always ends right here with the Unitarian claiming to be equal to Jesus.

Yeah this is basically the raison d'atture of this whole thread.

If we say Jesus isn't God..then He can't be a lesser God if you are monotheistic. Then if He is just a man, then it should be that we can be just like him. But He is sinless..that no mortal man can be, until they pass on.

That is if they believed on Jesus.

 

[amazing grace]

So you are equal with Jesus and the only difference between you and Him is you have sinned and Jesus did not ?

Seems that is what scripture teaches.
“Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know— [Acts 2:22]

Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. [Hebrews 2:17]

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. [Hebrews 4:15]

Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’” [John 20:17]

The disciples were his brothers - those who follow him and believe in him are his brothers - Jesus' Father is our Father and Jesus' God is our God.

 

[amazing grace]

John 1:1 (NASB 95) — 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:18 (NASB 95) — 18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

John 20:28–29 (NASB 95) — 28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus said to him,
“Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.”

Matthew 1:23 (NASB 95) — 23 “BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL,” which translated means, “GOD WITH US.”

Acts 2:36–39 (NASB 95) — 36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified.” 37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?” 38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.”

Acts 20:28 (NASB 95) — 28 Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

Titus 2:13 (NASB 95) — 13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

Hebrews 1:3 (NASB 95) — 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

Hebrews 1:8 (NASB 95) — 8 But of the Son He says, “YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.

Hebrews 1:9 (NASB 95) — 9 “YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS; THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS.”

Hebrews 1:10 (NASB 95) — 10 And, “YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;

2 Peter 1:1 (NASB 95) — 1 Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:

1 John 5:20 (NASB 95) — 20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

2 Corinthians 4:4 (NASB 95) — 4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Philippians 2:6–7 (NASB 95) — 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

Isaiah 7:14 (NASB 95) — 14 Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

Isaiah 9:6 (NASB 95) — 6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Colossians 2:9 (NASB 95) — 9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

And................your point?
A list of random verses posted in rebuttal to what I said???

 

[Complete]

No worries mate - I just like to remind people that the angels are people also, just not fallen and sown into mankind.

'Thou madest Him a little lower than the angels;
thou crownedst Him with glory and honour,
and didst set Him over the works of Thy hands:'
(Heb.2:7)

'But we see Jesus,
Who was made a little lower than the angels
for the suffering of death,
crowned with glory and honour;
that He by the grace of God
should taste death for every man.'
(Heb.2:9 )

Hi @TedT,

Angels are created beings as human beings are, but are not people. Mankind are 'a little lower' than angels. Angels are also capable of sinning, as we see from Genesis 6, and, 2 Peter 2:4.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[FreeInChrist]

Nobody is ignoring anything --- Jesus is the Messiah which means he is not God.
Jesus was NOT on the level with God his Father -
And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. [Matt. 28:18]
Jesus was given authority.

But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God. [1 Cor. 11:3]
The head of Christ is God - God is OVER Christ not 'level with'
The fact that Jesus says, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me” (Matt. 28:18) does not mean He is less than God. Rather, it shows that the Father has granted Him the exercise of authority in fulfillment of His divine mission. Even the Son, eternally God, can act in submission to the Father’s plan while still fully sharing in divinity (see John 5:19–23).

Your assumption that Authority = Inferiority is false.

The fact that Jesus says, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me” (Matt. 28:18) does not mean He is less than God. Rather, it shows that the Father has granted Him the exercise of authority in fulfillment of His divine mission. Even the Son, eternally God, can act in submission to the Father’s plan while still fully sharing in divinity

As expressed in John 5:19–23
5:19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner.
5:20 “For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself is doing; and the Father will show Him greater works than these, so that you will marvel.
5:21 “For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes.
5:22 “For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son,
5:23 so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

Once again..... Scripture affirms Jesus’ divinity.

John 1:1: “The Word was God.”
Colossians 2:9: “For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.”
Hebrew1:8: “Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever.”

Jesus being “given authority” does not contradict these; it shows a functional role in salvation history, not an ontological limitation of His deity.

How about a brief analogy of role vs. essence?

FACT: God the Father, Son, and Spirit have different roles in creation and redemption. The Son submitting to the Father’s plan does not make Him less than God.
Think of it as delegation: the authority given is the manifestation of His role as Messiah, not proof of inferiority in essence.

“Jesus being given authority by the Father doesn’t mean He is less than God. Even as God, He submitted to the Father’s plan in His role as Messiah. Scripture still calls Him God (John 1:1; Colossians 2:9), and all authority given to Him shows the Father’s will working through Him, not a lack of divinity.”

 

[TomL]

And................your point?
A list of random verses posted in rebuttal to what I said???

The deity of Christ is obviously stated

John 1:1 (NASB 95) — 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:18 (NASB 95) — 18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

John 20:28–29 (NASB 95) — 28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus said to him,
“Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.”

Matthew 1:23 (NASB 95) — 23 “BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL,” which translated means, “GOD WITH US.”

Acts 2:36–39 (NASB 95) — 36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified.” 37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?” 38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.”

Acts 20:28 (NASB 95) — 28 Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

Titus 2:13 (NASB 95) — 13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

Hebrews 1:3 (NASB 95) — 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

Hebrews 1:8 (NASB 95) — 8 But of the Son He says, “YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.

Hebrews 1:9 (NASB 95) — 9 “YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS; THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS.”

Hebrews 1:10 (NASB 95) — 10 And, “YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;

2 Peter 1:1 (NASB 95) — 1 Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:

1 John 5:20 (NASB 95) — 20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

2 Corinthians 4:4 (NASB 95) — 4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Philippians 2:6–7 (NASB 95) — 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

Isaiah 7:14 (NASB 95) — 14 Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

Isaiah 9:6 (NASB 95) — 6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Colossians 2:9 (NASB 95) — 9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

 

[TedT]

Angels are created beings as human beings are, but are not people.

ANGELS ARE PEOPLE, PERSONS, because Angels have free will:

1. Angels worship GOD:
Hebrews 1:6 points out that angels worship the Lord. We also see the heavenly host praising God in Luke 2:13–14. Robotic praise and worship is a parody of the real thing and worthless in heaven. When you put on a dvd and listen to a worship song singing praises to GOD, do you think or allude to the dvd as worshipping? Of course you don't.

2. Some angels are elect:
1 Timothy 5:21 I charge thee before GOD and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the ELECT angels. implying the fallen angels are non-elect demons ie the people of the evil one, the tares, sown into the world by the devil. IF angels can choose to sin and become demons, they can also choose to be holy and work for GOD...angel being a job description, NOT a race or type of being.

3. Angels are holy:
Mark 8:38 If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his Father's glory with the HOLY angels. This verse contrasts the sinfulness of men with the holiness, that is, the righteousness of angels, not just their consecration to GOD. Robotic holiness is a farce...a stone cannot sin but it is not righteous and a robot neither can be holy, that is, in the context of this verse, righteous. As well, Satan's fall is proof of his free will as he is not guilty of anything if he is a robot...

4. Angels have emotions such as love, joy, desire, sadness, pride, and anger:
Luke 15:10 indicates that angels are joyous when one person repents. The devil has great wrath in Revelation 12:12. The angels and the devil have desires (1 Peter 1:12; John 8:44). Why would anyone create a robotic group with emotions to drive them when HIS will is all that is necessary to drive them? Robotic emotions??? Surely only people have emotions...proof of their personhood in the image of GOD.

5. Angels are Persons in the image of GOD:
In the resurrection, man will be as the angels of God. Matt 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. In the resurrection, man is restored to the image of God in which he was created. The angels of God must, therefore, bear the image of God.

The image of GOD cannot contain sin therefore for man to be a sinner, the image must be broken. In the resurrection we will be restored to the full image of GOD and like the angels as this verse hints, who therefore must also be in HIS image. When did they receive the image of God unless it was in creation?

The image of GOD? I think it means things like personhood that is, self awareness, intelligence, emotional ability, curiosity and creativity and the ability to make true free will decisions. Therefore any being that fits this description fits the image of GOD... It also means they are suitable as marriage partners for our GOD, part of those who make up HIS Bride who were elected to be conformed to HIS Son and to heaven.

Not only does the ability to worship, to praise, to be elect and to be holy imply personhood, they also imply they have free will and if you combine free will with election of some angels and the fall of others, the Satanic demons, you get angels going through an Adam like choice with some staying holy and Satan and his crew choosing that which made them forever evil in HIS sight.

Pre-Conception Existence theology contends that EVERY PERSON was created in the image of GOD (that is, able to be HIS Bride. None were created with GOD knowing they would end in hell but as true innocents we only had the potential for perfection, ie, we had to choose by our free will to accept GOD and HIS life for us in heaven to fulfill our potential to become perfect in righteousness. The fall of the elect into sin delayed the fulfillment of that potential by making it impossible to fulfill without grace. The redemption of His sheep (elect) gone astray into sin, His sinful good (elect) seed, is a restoration to that potential and the new creation is the fully realized fulfillment of HIS purpose for our creation in us.

Peace, Ted

Mankind are 'a little lower' than angels.

Hebrews 2:7
made: is not to create but 1642. elattoó. 1. to lessen (in rank or influence)

Psalm 8:5
to lack, need, be lacking, decrease,
be abated, bereave, decrease, cause to fail, have lack, make lower, want

Only sinners are flung into the earth; elect sinners were flung here by Satan, Rev 12:4 and the reprobate satanic angels were flung here by GOD's army, Rev 7-9. These fallen (NOT redeemed), angels are sown into mankind, Matt 13:36-39, to aid in the sanctification of the fallen elect, Matt 13:27-30.

Since mankind is sown here while still fallen, they are lower than the holy angels by their free will decision to sin against their GOD.

 

[amazing grace]

Your assumption that Authority = Inferiority is false.

The fact that Jesus says, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me” (Matt. 28:18) does not mean He is less than God. Rather, it shows that the Father has granted Him the exercise of authority in fulfillment of His divine mission. Even the Son, eternally God, can act in submission to the Father’s plan while still fully sharing in divinity

You heard me say to you, ‘I am going away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. [John 14:28]
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. [John 10:29]
But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God. [1 Corinthians 11:3]

So Jesus being the eternal God ACTS as if he is in submission to God's plan . . . . .? Yeah, it would have to be an act for God to be in submission to God and I really don't understand how that would work?

Submission entails doing the will of someone other than your own will. Jesus always submitted his will to do the will of God, his Father...........I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me. [John 5:30]
A son should always be in obedient submission to his Father, (his parent).......Jesus was.

As expressed in John 5:19–23
5:19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner.
5:20 “For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself is doing; and the Father will show Him greater works than these, so that you will marvel.
5:21 “For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes.
5:22 “For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son,
5:23 so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

5:25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
5:26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself.

Once again..... Scripture affirms Jesus’ divinity.

John 1:1: “The Word was God.”

Reading 'the Word was the God' is an incorrect reading. We have been over this verse ad nauseum and my understanding hasn't changed ----- I do give a flying flip as to how the noun 'God' is being used.

Colossians 2:9: “For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.”

Many versions translate 'godhead' as divine nature -----

Louw-Nida comments: 'The expression 'divine nature' may be rendered in a number of languages as 'just what God is like' or 'how God is' or 'what God is'.​

What is clear from Scripture is that God gave Christ the gift of holy spirit and worked through him to accomplish His purposes.

Hebrew1:8: “Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever.”

Yes, this was also in the wedding song addressed to the human Davidic king in Psalm 45 --- Your throne, O God, is forever and ever. The scepter of your kingdom is a scepter of uprightness; you have loved righteousness and hated wickedness. Therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions;....... this Davidic king, as does Jesus, has a God who has anointed him so apparently being called God here is not in the same sense as THE ALMIGHTY GOD.

Jesus being “given authority” does not contradict these; it shows a functional role in salvation history, not an ontological limitation of His deity.

Apparently Jesus didn't have the authority to begin with which was why he had to be GIVEN AUTHORITY.

How about a brief analogy of role vs. essence?

FACT: God the Father, Son, and Spirit have different roles in creation and redemption. The Son submitting to the Father’s plan does not make Him less than God.
Think of it as delegation: the authority given is the manifestation of His role as Messiah, not proof of inferiority in essence.

“Jesus being given authority by the Father doesn’t mean He is less than God. Even as God, He submitted to the Father’s plan in His role as Messiah. Scripture still calls Him God (John 1:1; Colossians 2:9), and all authority given to Him shows the Father’s will working through Him, not a lack of divinity.”

The Father's will working through him......exactly what does that mean. From what I read in scripture Jesus submitted HIS WILL to the WILL of God HIS FATHER........A child is to be submissive, obedient to their parent and the parent is ALWAYS greater than the child even in adulthood. ...... Jesus was and still is . . . .

God submitted to God's plan in God's role as Messiah ----- God played a part like in a play??? We don't really have a Messiah, the anointed one of God is actually God playing a part????

 

[amazing grace]

The deity of Christ is obviously stated

John 1:1 (NASB 95) — 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:18 (NASB 95) — 18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

John 20:28–29 (NASB 95) — 28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus said to him,
“Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.”

Matthew 1:23 (NASB 95) — 23 “BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL,” which translated means, “GOD WITH US.”

Acts 2:36–39 (NASB 95) — 36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified.” 37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?” 38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.”

Acts 20:28 (NASB 95) — 28 Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

Titus 2:13 (NASB 95) — 13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

Hebrews 1:3 (NASB 95) — 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

Hebrews 1:8 (NASB 95) — 8 But of the Son He says, “YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.

Hebrews 1:9 (NASB 95) — 9 “YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS; THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS.”

Hebrews 1:10 (NASB 95) — 10 And, “YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;

2 Peter 1:1 (NASB 95) — 1 Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:

1 John 5:20 (NASB 95) — 20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

2 Corinthians 4:4 (NASB 95) — 4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Philippians 2:6–7 (NASB 95) — 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

Isaiah 7:14 (NASB 95) — 14 Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

Isaiah 9:6 (NASB 95) — 6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Colossians 2:9 (NASB 95) — 9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

I don't even know what you are finding in error with what I posted -----

A really common thing is for scripture to call Jesus - Jesus Christ, Jesus the Messiah.
Jesus admitted to being the Messiah ---- the Messiah is NOT God - He is the Lord's Christ, the Lord's Messiah - God's Christ.
And whatever authority Jesus has --- it was given to him by his Father, his God.

Isn't it common that scripture calls Jesus - Christ, Messiah?
Didn't Jesus admit to being the Messiah? Isn't Jesus called 'the Lord's Messiah'?
Didn't God the Father give authority to Jesus?
So why the whole list of verses why not just address what you believe I said in error?

BTW, these verses have been addressed repeatedly. Most have some type of textual variant which is why they have different translations. If you would like to discuss one in particular - it would be easier.

 

[FreeInChrist]

You heard me say to you, ‘I am going away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. [John 14:28]
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. [John 10:29]
But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God. [1 Corinthians 11:3]

So Jesus being the eternal God ACTS as if he is in submission to God's plan . . . . .? Yeah, it would have to be an act for God to be in submission to God and I really don't understand how that would work?

No.. that is what emptying himself was all about. It wasn’t an act.

Scripture says the eternal Son emptied Himself (Phil. 2:6–8). He did not pretend to be subordinate; He truly took the role of a servant. Submission belongs to the incarnate Son, not to the divine nature as such.

God the Son did not submit to Himself........ He submitted as man to the Father, just as He truly hungered, suffered, and died as man. That’s not role-playing; that’s the Incarnation.

You better know this. If Christ’s submission was only an “act,” then His suffering, obedience, and death were also an act — and the gospel collapses. Philippians 2 says He emptied Himself, not that He pretended.

Always remember..... Submission is not God submitting to God; it is the eternal Son submitting in the flesh, which is exactly what the Incarnation means.

Submission entails doing the will of someone other than your own will. Jesus always submitted his will to do the will of God, his Father...........I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me. [John 5:30]
A son should always be in obedient submission to his Father, (his parent).......Jesus was.

5:25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
5:26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself.

Reading 'the Word was the God' is an incorrect reading. We have been over this verse ad nauseum and my understanding hasn't changed ----- I do give a flying flip as to how the noun 'God' is being used.

Many versions translate 'godhead' as divine nature -----

Louw-Nida comments: 'The expression 'divine nature' may be rendered in a number of languages as 'just what God is like' or 'how God is' or 'what God is'.​

What is clear from Scripture is that God gave Christ the gift of holy spirit and worked through him to accomplish His purposes.

Yes, this was also in the wedding song addressed to the human Davidic king in Psalm 45 --- Your throne, O God, is forever and ever. The scepter of your kingdom is a scepter of uprightness; you have loved righteousness and hated wickedness. Therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions;....... this Davidic king, as does Jesus, has a God who has anointed him so apparently being called God here is not in the same sense as THE ALMIGHTY GOD.

Apparently Jesus didn't have the authority to begin with which was why he had to be GIVEN AUTHORITY.

The Father's will working through him......exactly what does that mean. From what I read in scripture Jesus submitted HIS WILL to the WILL of God HIS FATHER........A child is to be submissive, obedient to their parent and the parent is ALWAYS greater than the child even in adulthood. ...... Jesus was and still is . . . .

God submitted to God's plan in God's role as Messiah ----- God played a part like in a play??? We don't really have a Messiah, the anointed one of God is actually God playing a part????