FreeInChrist:
The translation from the Septuagint LXX says the exact same thing as the Trinitarian Bibles from which I quoted 1 John 5:20. The Septuagint LXX says "the son of God ... has given us thought that we should know the one true," indicating the son is helping people know about an entirely different person. You are focusing on the last sentence where it says "This one is the true God, and the life eternal" despite the fact the context (surrounding words, verses, or chapters) indicates that sentence is with reference to the Father. Don't believe me? Look at 1 John 5:1 and 10, quoted below from the Septuagint LXX, then answer the questions that follow. Focus on the words bolded in red.
"{1} Every one believing that Jesus is the Christ, is engendered by God; and every one loving the one engendering, loves also the one being engendered by him."
"{10} The one believing in the son of God, he has the witness in himself; the one not believing in God, has made him a liar, for he has not believed in the witness which God has witnessed concerning his son.
QUESTION #1 to FreeInChrist: 1 John 5:1 speaks of two individuals, as follows: Jesus the Christ AND God. TRUE or FALSE?
QUESTION #2 to FreeInChrist: 1 John 5:10 speaks of two individuals, as follows: "the son of God" AND God. TRUE or FALSE?
QUESTION #3 to FreeInChrist: 1 John 5:10 says "God has witnessed concerning his son," indicating two different persons. TRUE or FALSE?
I will answer your questions in next reply after you read this.
You are not happy that the Septuagint LXX sounds like a Trin bible with regard to the subject at hand.
Has it not occurred to you then that maybe the Septuagint Bible proves the Trin bibles to be accurate.
I can assure you that I would trust the Septuagint LXX long before the NWT that had several men appointed as translators but only one had any knowledge of Greek... and that was 2 years of College Greek... Fred Franz.
Just some trivia for you and all....
NWT Translators Did Not Know Biblical Hebrew Or Greek The Watchtower Bible calls the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures one of the best translations to be found. But is it a translation or merely are gross distortions of the actual Greek and Hebrew manuscripts based on these men’s...
www.christianforums.com
NWT Translators Did Not Know Biblical Hebrew Or Greek
The Watchtower Bible calls the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures one of the best translations to be found. But is it a translation or merely are gross distortions of the actual Greek and Hebrew manuscripts based on these men’s opinions. The FORWARD of the New World Translation in 1961 edition, on page 5 states, "It is a very responsible thing to translate the Holy Scriptures from their original languages, Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek, into modern speech ... The translators who have a fear and love of the divine Author of the Holy Scriptures feel especially a responsibility toward Him to transmit his thoughts and declarations as accurately as possible." Have their translators been responsible? Are they true to the original languages?
The men that comprised the Translation Committee were not even Greek scholars qualified to translate the Bible. These men were: N.H. Knorr, F. W. Franz the 4th President, A.D. Schroeder, G.D. Gangas and M. Henschel (write to Personal Freedom Outreach, P.O. Box 26062, St. Louis, Missouri 63136 for paper documentation). All met together in these translation sessions.
The translation committee requested that the names of the translators remain secret even after their deaths (Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose, p. 258).
Franz was asked in a courtroom in Scotland, "Why the secrecy?" he said, "Because the committee of translation wanted it to remain anonymous and not seek any glory or honour at the making of a translation, and having any names attached thereto." The attorney replied, "Writers of books and translators do not always get glory and honour for their efforts, do they?" (Pursuer's Proof of Douglas Walsh vs. The Right Honourable James Latham, M.P., P.C., Scottish Court of Sessions, p. 92 Nov. 1954).
In 1954, in a Scotland trial, Fred Franz, then head of the Watchtower Editorial Board, admitted that he himself was the one who had checked the accuracy of the translation and recommended its publication. (Douglas Walsh v. The Right Honorable James Latham Clyde, M.P., P.C., etc., Scotland, 1954, (1958 ed.).p.88.)
The following is from the trial transcript: -
(Q): Insofar as translation of the Bible itself is undertaken, are you responsible for that?
(A):
I have been authorized to examine a translation and determine its accuracy and recommend its acceptance in the form in which it is submitted.
Later, Franz was asked about his own involvement in the translating(Douglas Walsh v. The Right Honorable James Latham
Clyde, M.P., P.C., etc., Scotland, 1954, (1958 ed.).p.92)
(Q) :
Were you yourself responsible for the translation of the Old Testament?
( A ) : Again I cannot answer that question...
Here, under oath, Franz refused to confirm or deny he was the translator of the Hebrew text. Why wouldn't he say that he did not translate the Old Testament? The court also wondered "why" and asked (ibid)
(Q): Why the secrecy?
(A): Because the committee of translation wanted it to remain anonymous and not seek any glory or honour at the making of a translation, and having any names attached thereto.
Why is it the writers of the New Testament books identified their authorship by their names, we know they were not seeking honor.
The facts speak for themselves. The real reason would be that the translators could not be checked since
they had no qualifications and anyone investigating this could not find anyone to assume responsibility for the translation. A shrewd plan indeed.
According to Raymond Franz, only Fred Franz had "sufficient knowledge of the Bible languages to attempt translation of this kind.
He had studied Greek for two years in the University of Cincinnati but was only
self taught In Hebrew." Raymond Franz, Crisis of Conscience (Atlanta: Commentary Press, 1983).
Not one of the men had ever studied Greek, and wouldn't know the difference between an alpha or a omega.
Only three of the five had even finished high school. Of those three only one went on to College. His name was Fredrick Franz, the same man who became the President of the Jehovah's Witnesses. He did begin at the University of Cincinatti but only completed two years.
He then dropped out of College after the first semester in 1913 because he believed what Russell told him, that Christ was returning in 1914. He does not have even the most basic college degree, and certainly does not possess a degree for advanced study of the Bible. In fact, outside of the Watchtower circle Franz is not recognized by anyone as a scholar.
As M. James Penton, a former Jehovah's Witness and historian, has written, "to all intents and purposes the New World Translation is the work of one man-Frederick Franz." M. James Penton, Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses (Toronto: University of Toronto Press, 1985),
The men who make up the "translation committee" were self-appointed men lacking any adequate schooling or background in biblical languages unable to function as Bible Translators. Their purpose was not to translate the Scripture into a modern version of the Bible but to justify their theology to their people and have ammunition against Christianity as it is practiced today.
The New World Translation is a fabrication with no scholarship involved. It was specifically created to make the Bible agree their preconceived theology. It was made for their people to believe WT doctrine and uphold their false belief that Jesus is Michael the Archangel not God.
@Alter2Ego , Do you know any of the history of the Septuagint LXX?
The Holy Bible Septuagint LXX
(You can find all the chapters on this link of the New Testament)
The Septuagint, sometimes referred to as the Greek Old Testament o
r The Translation of the Seventy, and abbreviated as LXX, is the earliest extant Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible from the original Biblical Hebrew. The full Greek title derives from the story recorded in the Letter of Aristeas to Philocrates that "the laws of the Jews" were translated into the Greek language at the request of Ptolemy II Philadelphus by seventy-two Hebrew translators—six from each of the Twelve Tribes of Israel
The Septuagint is the oldest surviving Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible, traditionally believed to have
been created by 72 Jewish scholars in the 3rd century BC.
From :
https://newtestamentgreek.org/the-l...ing-new-testament-greek-with-septuagint-greek
Ill give you the summary first.
In summary, both the LXX and NT Greek share the foundation of Koine Greek, shaped by Hellenistic culture, yet display nuanced differences.
The LXX often mirrors Hebrew syntax and vocabulary, aiming for fidelity to Hebrew sources. The NT, while also drawing heavily on LXX vocabulary and theological terms, adapts the language to reflect the idiomatic and theological demands of its broader audience,
resulting in a dynamic form of Koine Greek that builds on LXX language to articulate early Christian doctrine. This flexible approach makes NT Greek more accessible while allowing it to resonate with the theological depth of the Hebrew Scriptures.
The Language of Scripture: Contrasting New Testament Greek with Septuagint Greek
Posted by
Clement November 1, 2024
New Testament (NT) Greek and Septuagint (LXX) Greek share many linguistic characteristics but also display differences due to their origins, purposes, and contexts. Here’s a detailed analysis of these differences and similarities across several aspects:
1. Historical Background and Context
Septuagint (LXX) Greek: The Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament), was produced in Alexandria around the 3rd–2nd centuries BC. The translation was primarily intended for Greek-speaking Jews who no longer spoke Hebrew. Its language is a mix of Hebrew syntax and Greek vocabulary, often making it more literal and Hebraic in structure, but this varies among books. For example, some books (like Proverbs) are translated less literally and adapted to fit Greek idiomatic expressions, while others closely mirror Hebrew structures.
New Testament Greek: The New Testament was written primarily between the mid-1st century and early 2nd century AD. It was directed at a broader audience that included both Jews and Gentiles. NT Greek, sometimes referred to as “
Koine” Greek, is generally more idiomatic and natural, reflecting the language spoken by common people of the time. However, the NT also displays variety among its authors: while some texts, like Luke and Hebrews, are relatively sophisticated, others, like Mark, use simpler structures. This diversity in NT Greek reflects the flexibility of Koine as a medium.
2. Linguistic Style and Idioms
Literal vs. Idiomatic: LXX Greek is often more literal in its translation from Hebrew, resulting in awkward Greek expressions that mirror Hebrew syntax. However, this is not uniform across all books. Some LXX books, particularly the Pentateuch, remain closely literal to preserve the Hebrew’s religious connotations, while others allow for Greek idioms. NT Greek, by contrast, is generally more idiomatic and often adapts to common Greek language patterns. Yet, in some passages, especially when quoting or alluding to Scripture, NT authors reflect Hebraisms, particularly in texts like Matthew and Hebrews.
Semitic Influence: While the LXX has a strong Semitic influence, NT Greek also includes Hebraisms, particularly in the Gospels and certain epistles. This influence is seen in phrasing, idiomatic expressions, and thought patterns that carry over from Jewish tradition and thought. NT Greek thus occupies a middle ground between idiomatic Greek and Hebraic expressions, preserving the Jewish cultural background of the authors while adapting to the vernacular of their audience.
3. Vocabulary and Word Usage
Shared Vocabulary: Both the NT and LXX share extensive vocabulary, particularly for religious and theological terms (e.g.,
ἀγάπη/agape for “love,”
θεός/theos for “God”). This shared vocabulary reflects the LXX’s influence on NT authors, who frequently drew on the Septuagint for Old Testament quotations and theological language. The LXX’s theological terms, developed within a Jewish religious framework, were often expanded in the NT to address emerging Christian theology.
Unique Vocabulary: Some words in the NT are absent in the LXX, reflecting Hellenistic ideas or theological developments unique to early Christianity. For instance, “
εὐαγγέλιον” (gospel) gains new significance as the proclamation of Christ’s message. Conversely, certain LXX terms are rare in the NT, reflecting the distinct cultural context of the Hebrew Scriptures. The NT’s vocabulary development thus reflects both continuity with and innovation upon Jewish theological language.
4. Grammar and Syntax
Morphology: Both the NT and LXX employ Koine Greek morphology, though the LXX sometimes includes older or more literary forms due to its aim of mirroring Hebrew structures. This effect is particularly visible in texts like the Pentateuch and the Psalms, where Hebrew poetic and legal forms are adapted into Greek.
Syntax: LXX Greek syntax often mirrors Hebrew syntax, leading to complex or redundant structures. However, not all LXX texts follow this pattern uniformly. The NT’s syntax is usually more streamlined, especially in narratives like the Gospels and Acts, though Paul’s epistles contain complex structures that approach classical Greek rhetoric. The NT’s grammar and syntax reflect the diversity of its authors, with some books exhibiting polished Greek style and others leaning toward simpler, conversational forms.
5. Theological Language and Terms
Theological Terminology: The LXX laid much of the groundwork for theological terms later used in the NT. Words like “
δικαιοσύνη” (righteousness), “
σωτηρία” (salvation), and “
πνεῦμα” (spirit) were developed with nuanced meanings in the LXX, meanings that NT authors adopted and expanded upon to express Christian theology.
Christological Language: NT Greek reflects theological developments not present in the LXX, especially concerning Christology and soteriology. Terms like “
Χριστός” (Christ, Messiah) take on a central and defined meaning in the NT, signaling theological shifts that aligned with Christian beliefs. Words such as “
εὐαγγέλιον” (gospel) gain a broader theological significance, connecting directly to the NT message of salvation through Christ.
6. Quotations and Paraphrases
Direct Quotations: The NT frequently quotes the LXX, especially in the Gospels and Paul’s letters. NT writers often adhere to the LXX wording, though they may occasionally paraphrase or modify quotations to suit their context. In some cases, these adaptations highlight theological points through subtle alterations.
Use of Masoretic Text (MT): While the NT primarily uses the LXX, there are instances where quotations or allusions align more closely with the Hebrew Masoretic Text. These instances are rare and seem to be deliberate, serving to emphasize particular theological ideas. The NT’s use of both the LXX and MT reflects its authors’ intent to communicate Jewish concepts to a mixed audience.
7. Textual Variations and Translation Philosophy
Translation Philosophy: The LXX translators often aimed to reflect Hebrew texts closely, but their translation philosophy varies. While some books (like the Pentateuch) are almost word-for-word, others (like Wisdom literature) use a more dynamic approach. NT writers, on the other hand, adapted LXX quotations with flexibility, sometimes for doctrinal emphasis, other times for clarity, reflecting interpretive approaches common in Jewish exegesis (pesher).
Textual Variations: Since the LXX is a translation of the Hebrew Scriptures, it sometimes differs from the Hebrew MT. These variations occasionally result in NT citations of the OT that differ from modern Hebrew-based versions, indicating that NT authors chose readings from the LXX that resonated with their theological points. This selective use highlights the NT’s interpretive approach to Scripture.
8. Dialects and Lexicon Evolution
Dialects: Both the NT and LXX are written in Koine Greek, yet the NT reflects a broader, more evolved version of the language as it had spread across the Hellenistic world. The NT’s dialect is more uniform and colloquial, showing how Koine Greek had unified regional dialects.
Lexicon Evolution: Over centuries, some Greek words evolved in meaning, especially those with religious or philosophical connotations. The NT occasionally reflects this evolution, using terms like “
εὐαγγέλιον” (gospel) in ways that diverge from the LXX. This reflects an adaptation of Koine to new theological contexts, bridging Jewish tradition with the Christian message.
LXX Greek and NT Greek
In summary, both the LXX and NT Greek share the foundation of Koine Greek, shaped by Hellenistic culture, yet display nuanced differences. The LXX often mirrors Hebrew syntax and vocabulary, aiming for fidelity to Hebrew sources. The NT, while also drawing heavily on LXX vocabulary and theological terms, adapts the language to reflect the idiomatic and theological demands of its broader audience, resulting in a dynamic form of Koine Greek that builds on LXX language to articulate early Christian doctrine. This flexible approach makes NT Greek more accessible while allowing it to resonate with the theological depth of the Hebrew Scriptures.
