It supports the teaching.
Thomas... My Lord and my God
- Thread starter Peterlag
- Start date
It supports the teaching.
Peterlag
Well-known member
How does 2 Corinthians 11:4 support the teaching of the trinity?
It says if someone comes with a different Jesus... that would be you.
Or if they come with a different gospel... that would be you.
For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Peterlag
Well-known member
There's no record of God experiencing humanity or God humbling Himself or God emptying Himself. Nothing like that is mentioned or explained in Scripture.
It supports the fact that Jesus is God.
No matter how many times you deny it, we still have to accept the Son humbling himself in the incarnation. You have not presented sufficient argument against the passages that show this.
Peterlag
Well-known member
There's no Scripture to show because there's none to find that God ever humbled or emptying Himself.
Peterlag
Well-known member
If the Jews had no trinity, and the Christians had no trinity until it was officially declared by the Catholic Church in the 4th century. Then don’t you have to wonder where it came from? If it was formulated by the same Church that brought you Mary Mother of God, immortality of the soul, purgatory and hellfire... then don't you wonder just a little bit?
Funny how you come up with your rejection, especially when the concept you are mainly rejecting appears in scripture directly. I forget what you have claimed against the testimony of scripture on this issue. Your points always appear highly speculative and sort of a wiping away of the obvious meaning.
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You are avoiding the fact that Jesus is God (Romans 10:13).
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
You are avoiding that in the same epistle and chapter, must few 4 verses before, Paul establishes, as he did over and over and over, that Jesus and God are different persons.
(ATTENTION: I didn't say Jesus and the Father. I said Jesus and God).
That if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. (10:9)
So Lord Jesus is one Person, and God is a different person. God raised Jesus. Not the other way around. God sent Jesus. Not the other way around.
God exalted Jesus. Not the other way around. God gave authority to Jesus. Not the other way around. God invited Jesus to sit next to Him. Not the other way around. We kneel before Jesus in order to please God, not the other way around.
As Paul says, we have One God, The Father.
As Jesus says, The Father is His God, our God, and the Only and True God.
Since YHWH, the God of Israel, is the Ultimate Savior who sent Jesus to execute salvation, calling the name of Jesus is like calling the name of God of Israel who sent him. There is no contradiction: that's what Ambassadors do.
Since Jesus, the Man, is Mediator between man and God, Jesus is an appropriate recepient of prayer. That's what Mediators do.
Peterlag
Well-known member
It says "call upon the Lord..." It does not say call upon the name of God.
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Peterlag
Well-known member
All though out the Old Testament God is considered a badass You were dead if you walked in the wrong room in the Temple or if you by mistake bummed into the Ark. Even looking at Him would kill since His energy is so massive and lethal. There's no record of Him humbling Himself. None.
Pitiful..
I never asserted the Father and Jesus are the same Person.
Get back on track and deal with Romans 10:13 and stop hiding.
Runningman
Well-known member
Daniel 6 is not about praying to Jesus. Your argument seems to be based entirely on a context and word that are not being applied to Jesus.
Runningman
Well-known member
Romans 10:13 is about YHWH. It's clearer in Acts 2-3. Peter's sermon is all about YHWH, who is God, in distinction to Jesus. For example, God and Jesus aren't the same party in Acts 2:21,22 or Acts 3:19,20.
Acts 2 (KJV)
21And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
22Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
The Lord sent Jesus Christ:
Acts 3 (KJV)
19Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
When Paul uses the expression "the Name of the Lord" it always refers to Jesus.
Simple.
Strange way you view your 'god'.
