Thomas... My Lord and my God

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

in the original manuscripts there are no chapters/verses in the letters- just the title.

Yes my friend . though i have no problems with the chapter and verse added in to help teach .
BUT YOU are spot on right about this .
Many do NOT know the scriptures at all . THEY know truths . YES they do know truths
but they know what man has twisted unto them . THEY do NOT KNOW the TRUTH .
They have no real love FOR the TRUTH .
Which to me is a real clear sign in and of itself . THAT they DO NOT KNOW GOD .
GOD puts something into us , WE NEVER HAD
when we walked in darkness . THE LOVE FOR HIM ABOVE ALL and from that love cometh
the LOVE thy neighbor as GOD LOVED and loves us .
I SEE A LOVE that overlooks sins ,
I SEE a love that hollers judge not , are you perfect .
I SEE a love that comes after those who DO LOVE and thus DO CORRECT any sin and any error they see amongst brethren .
And that aint the LOVE OF GOD at all .
The next time one corrects sin within the church and you hear one say, HEY DONT JUDGE
we all sinners , THEN KNOW AND UNDERSTAND that there person is heeding another love
But if we want to examine if what i say be true
THEN EXAMINE JESUS , HIS DOCTRINE , the apostels their doctrine .
AND friend i bet ten trillion dollars not a one of them
overlooked sin and error and said HEY DONT JUDGE , we all sinners .
You wanna know the real simple truth . Most folks would not recognize
a true man of GOD at all . THEY SEE THEM as monsters and haters , just as they would see the real JESUS
and real apostels as haters and judgers . THAT is a fact .
Show me once where paul rebuked those who said
Let not inquity ONCE be named . OH WAIT HE Said that himself .
Lets see how serious they were when error was spotted . LETS see their letters
which said REBUKE those who sin before all THAT OTHERS MIGHT FEAR . fear TO SIN bud .
I DONT SEE THIS . I SEE NO GRAVE MEN at all . I SEE NONE who take a stand like the apostels did agaisnt sin and error
within the church . I see only those who appear to do so being called monsters , haters , accusations like they
aint mature , dont know GOD or CHRIST . that is what i see . JESUS would have been run out of most places
and when i say most places i mean WITHIN CHRISTENDOM .
SO if this seems wrong to you , then you feel free to start asking me questions or telling me where i am wrong .
THE ONLY way to FIX THIS is for folks to get IN the scrips for themselves
and let us start discussing that , WITHOUT the pre conceived ideals of men , but just word for word and scrip by scrip .
THIS can EASILY be fixed . Very easy . only most WONT nothing to do with it .

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

Amen brother !

Exactly my friend . From the scriptures
to even the dreams GOD gave me by night HE SHOWED ME something .
We aint squat . BUT IN HIM and BY HIM WE DO OVERCOME and shall overcome .
Most folks when they dream often see things that make them the big kahuna .
GOD NEVER ONCE showed me that about me . NOT in the scrips
and not by dreams either .
I could tell you some of those dreams .
And you have the bible and can read it for yourself too .
In one dream i was in a mall
and walking about and then all of sudden people began to run
and it was said the strong man cometh . people were hiding
and even myself with them . we ran into a corner down a hall way .
But the strong man knew where we were and he began to enter down that hall way .
I ran out, with no fear to face him . We both locked arms
and HE could not push me back and i could not push him back . He
could not overpower me but i could not overpower him . WE were locked in a dead lock .
As i held him i suddenly realized that he was gonna wear me out .
ALL of a sudden a voice came to me in the dream and it said
IT is not by might , nor by your power but BY ME . AND ALL of a sudden i threw that thing like it was a rag doll .
GOD was showing me , THIS is not by your strength , IT is by HIM alone we can overcome .
I have had other dreams too . Every time GOD showed me
ITS BY HIM and without him we cannot overcome . JUST as the scrips do too .
WE aint the big kahuna at all . TRUTH is
you looking at the words of a man who was once one of the worst creatures on earth .
BUT GOD drew me TO CHRIST , HE CHANGED ME and HE has humbled me and continues to do so .
About the only thing i can do in my own strength and by my own power , IS FAIL . BUT IN HIM i shall prevail . we gots to get
in the bible and now .

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

Indeed

There are gems all over scripture that point to CHRIST .
And if one has eyes to see they will see .
Even the law , the prophets , the fathers pointed TO THE ONE PROMISE , JESUS THE CHRIST , THE ONE HOPE
JESUS the CHRIST . its all over in many places my friend .
Why lets even look at the law and what it said about those who were to perform the duties of the priesthood .
If any man has a mole , a deformity , a dwarf , etc
HE cannot perform that duty .
But we also see something even more clearly when GOD spoke to samuel
samule thought for sure and for certain that first born man of JESSIE had to be GODS CHOSEN .
what a mighty stature he had .
BUT GOD said something to samuel . DIDNT HE .
LOOK not on the outward appearance . GOD LOOKETH ON the INSIDE . on the heart .
SO now lets put that into WHO can actually be THE ONE TRUE GREAT HIGH PREIST
that eventuallly WAS COMING . the law was for but a time and due to trangressions till the promise came .
SO i would like to tell all the jews
as well as all the gentiles . WHEN YE LOOK for a great high preist
FIND ONE without blemish on the INSIDE . find one amongst man who is perfect and without spot
ON THE INSIDE .
And you can bet the jews even would be like , WELL thats impossible because all have sinned , NO man
no mere man is PERFECT and without SPOT from within , ONLY GOD IS .
to which i would say , WELL you are right my friend . ONLY GOD IS PERFECT and without spot .
DOES this make sense to you my friend . ONLY GOD HIMSELF
was gonna be able to save man . TO COME and to FULLFILL all which no man could
and be perfect and without spot . AND YOU can bet your bottom DOLLAR WE GOT US SUCH A HIGH PREIST
in THE HEAVENS who did overcome and did all that was necessary . HIS NAME BE JESUS
AND HE IS THE WORD OF GOD and GOD IS HIS WORD .

 

[mikesw]

I did not ask anything about the gift of God or that Christ Jesus had to be God's son. I asked why God would come to the earth as a man? I think it's a good question because there's nothing in the Bible that says why God would come to the earth as a man or what that would achieve. Now you can make up all kinds of reasons why you think God came to the earth as a man because there's nothing in the Bible that says God coming to the earth would produce something. Thus, there's no reason for God to come to the earth as a man because doing so accomplishes nothing.

Sorry that you think God accomplished nothing. That is sad and hopeless situation for you. I can remind you that the prophets could not create this change of humanity. God did only through incarnation. Indeed the passages that point to God being among the people were a bit encapsulated in mystery and poetic language but these mysteries and language were resolved in Christ Jesus. That is why I cannot accept the Arian heresy. I skimmed through your argument against the Triune essence of God and it mostly focused on the humanity of Jesus and did not address the passages that point to his divinity, a divinity that still fits into the Shema. Like pointed out elsewhere, the Angel of The Lord converses with God but also is called Yahweh.

 

[TomL]

No I don't have a reading difficulty. I asked why would God come to the earth as a man and you never answered that question. You never provided one verse or even a half verse that says why God would come to the earth as a man. What you answered with was that Christ came as a man. Well, Christ means anointed and God was never the anointed one or the anointed God.

Your comment belie that

Recapitulation. Christ as a man did what no other man could do. Redeemed mankind.

You may believe redemption/reconciliation of mankind is nothing but very few will share that opinion with you.

You were clearly answered

 

[TomL]

You wrote "Already answered"... Recapitulation: Christ as a man did what no other man could do. Redeemed mankind.

But my question did not ask anything about Christ or Christ as a man. My question was why would God come to the earth as a man?

Um Christ is God

Hello

And he did what no ordinary man could do.

 

[mikesw]

I forget (if I ever heard) what Peterlag says of the virgin birth of Jesus and what the meaning and relevance of those are. Running man I think said that Jesus was never called Immanuel. I forget what relevance he gave to the mention of Jesus as Immanuel.

 

[mikesw]

A bad argument that Peterlag gives on his website is:

The reason no other human male after Adam could be a “type” of Christ is that we are all born with a sin nature. Adam could not be a “type”of Christ if Jesus was 100% man and 100% God because Adam did not have a “God-nature.”

The relevance of Adam as a type of Christ consists of this similarity. Adam was the father of all living people. Jesus is the father of all people who are new creations in Christ. If Adam were some broader type of Christ, it would be saying the Jesus had to sin.
One thing to note here is that Romans 5 does not really develop the Adam-Christ typology. The idea of Adam as a type would have had to explain what aspects of Adam anticipated and defined what the last Adam would bring forth. Paul veers off from that typology concept to make a contrast between grace/life and sin/disobedience.

 

[Peterlag]

Um Christ is God

Hello

And he did what no ordinary man could do.

If Christ is God then is there a verse that says why God would come to the earth as Christ? What would that accomplish to have a Christ God come to the earth?

 

[Peterlag]

Your comment belie that

Recapitulation. Christ as a man did what no other man could do. Redeemed mankind.

You may believe redemption/reconciliation of mankind is nothing but very few will share that opinion with you.

You were clearly answered

I was not clearly answered. You did not tell me from Scripture what would be the reason to have God come to the earth as a man. What you have said was he did come to the earth as Christ. And Christ is not a God or a man. Christ means anointed.

 

[Peterlag]

Sorry that you think God accomplished nothing. That is sad and hopeless situation for you. I can remind you that the prophets could not create this change of humanity. God did only through incarnation. Indeed the passages that point to God being among the people were a bit encapsulated in mystery and poetic language but these mysteries and language were resolved in Christ Jesus. That is why I cannot accept the Arian heresy. I skimmed through your argument against the Triune essence of God and it mostly focused on the humanity of Jesus and did not address the passages that point to his divinity, a divinity that still fits into the Shema. Like pointed out elsewhere, the Angel of The Lord converses with God but also is called Yahweh.

Like you say to me your opinion means nothing. Do you have a Scripture that says why God would come to the earth as a man.

 

[mikesw]

Like you say to me your opinion means nothing. Do you have a Scripture that says why God would come to the earth as a man.

We of course have Isa 9:6-7. But of course you have a way to twist it out of its meaning
Isaiah 9:5–6 (ESV)
5For every boot of the tramping warrior in battle tumult and every garment rolled in blood will be burned as fuel for the fire.
6For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

It hardly is worth sharing anything because you give a half-answer to explain away (in an unconvincing way) the meaning of the texts so they can be crammed into a unitarian reading.

 

[TomL]

I was not clearly answered. You did not tell me from Scripture what would be the reason to have God come to the earth as a man. What you have said was he did come to the earth as Christ. And Christ is not a God or a man. Christ means anointed.

What part of redeem mankind did you not understand?

There was no ordinary man who could accomplish this.

 

[TomL]

If Christ is God then is there a verse that says why God would come to the earth as Christ? What would that accomplish to have a Christ God come to the earth?

Redemption as stated multiple times


The bible clearly shows the word who is God became flesh and also clearly identifies him as Jesus.

 

[Peterlag]

Redemption as stated multiple times


The bible clearly shows the word who is God became flesh and also clearly identifies him as Jesus.

You are jumping from one verse to another. If I jump like you I can prove the Apostle Peter was with Adam and Eve. Jesus called Peter Satan and Eve mentioned Satan. Therefore Peter was with Eve. You can make the Word of God say anything if you jump and copy and paste one verse with another. There's no verse that says God would be the one to come to the earth to redeem us.

P.S. It is clearly identified that Jesus became God's spoke person. John 1:1 or 1:14 says nothing about Jesus being God.

 

[Peterlag]

What part of redeem mankind did you not understand?

There was no ordinary man who could accomplish this.

The Bible does not refer to Jesus as an ordinary man. The Bible refers to Jesus as the son of God, the Messiah to Israel, and the now resurrected Lord Christ to the Christian... who sits at the right hand of God as second in command and is the head of the Church that is called the body of Christ.

 

[Peterlag]

We of course have Isa 9:6-7. But of course you have a way to twist it out of its meaning
Isaiah 9:5–6 (ESV)
5For every boot of the tramping warrior in battle tumult and every garment rolled in blood will be burned as fuel for the fire.
6For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

It hardly is worth sharing anything because you give a half-answer to explain away (in an unconvincing way) the meaning of the texts so they can be crammed into a unitarian reading.

The above that you just quoted says nothing about why God would come to the earth as a man. Such a concept accomplishes nothing. Romans says a man (Adam) caused sin to enter into the world, and also that a man would have to redeem it from sin. The Bible specifically says that a man must do it. The book of Corinthians makes the same point Romans does when it says “For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead” (1 Corinthians 15:21).

 

[mikesw]

The above that you just quoted says nothing about why God would come to the earth as a man. Such a concept accomplishes nothing. Romans says a man (Adam) caused sin to enter into the world, and also that a man would have to redeem it from sin. The Bible specifically says that a man must do it. The book of Corinthians makes the same point Romans does when it says “For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead” (1 Corinthians 15:21).

Did you hear that Jesus, being born of God and designated his Son, is also a man. So therefore Jesus fulfills both. I already shares not your idea on Romans, including what your shared on your website mention of the view Adam as type of Christ. The typology of Adam is the father of all humanity. Jesus achieves that as the father of all new creatures in Christ. So you constantly miss the message.
The link for that Adam typology was earlier on this page but not a reply to you. Here is the link: #Adam Typology

If you are thinking Sola Scriptura. This does not favor your interpretation against the orthodox view. Both are determinations of the broader message of scriptures. You would have to find a conflict with the Trinitarian understanding rather than just having your preference of an explanation of God's purpose in Christ Jesus.
An example is you have to be able to understand John 2:19-21 where Jesus promises to restore the temple, which is his body. This is shown to mean he raised himself from the dead.

 

[Peterlag]

Did you hear that Jesus, being born of God and designated his Son, is also a man. So therefore Jesus fulfills both. I already shares not your idea on Romans, including what your shared on your website mention of the view Adam as type of Christ. The typology of Adam is the father of all humanity. Jesus achieves that as the father of all new creatures in Christ. So you constantly miss the message.
The link for that Adam typology was earlier on this page but not a reply to you. Here is the link: #Adam Typology

If you are thinking Sola Scriptura. This does not favor your interpretation against the orthodox view. Both are determinations of the broader message of scriptures. You would have to find a conflict with the Trinitarian understanding rather than just having your preference of an explanation of God's purpose in Christ Jesus.
An example is you have to be able to understand John 2:19-21 where Jesus promises to restore the temple, which is his body. This is shown to mean he raised himself from the dead.

There's no verse in the Bible that says God-Man. You can't have it both ways. Either he was God or he was a man.

 

[TomL]

The Bible does not refer to Jesus as an ordinary man. The Bible refers to Jesus as the son of God, the Messiah to Israel, and the now resurrected Lord Christ to the Christian... who sits at the right hand of God as second in command and is the head of the Church that is called the body of Christ.

Exactly

John 1:1–14 (NASB95) — 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. 6 There came a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him. 8 He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light. 9 There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

as was noted

What part of redeem mankind did you not understand?

There was no ordinary man who could accomplish this.