Thomas... My Lord and my God

You have a bad foundation. John did not teach an incarnation, but rather a creation. You're also verse padding. There is no mention of Jesus in the Old Testament saving anyone or doing anything

Some versions of Jude 1:5 say "the Lord" not "Jesus." The oldest manuscripts say "The Lord."

1 Corinthians 10:4 is in reference to a spiritual rock, not a literal Jesus being there. The rock that was struck and sprang forth water is foreshadowing of Jesus being pierced and water coming out.

1 Corinthians 10:9-10 isn't about Jesus pre-existing. The precedent established in 1 Cor. 10:4 rules that out.
You are in denial

John taught God became flesh. That is incarnation

John 1:1–18 (LEB) — 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 This one was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through him, and apart from him not one thing came into being that has come into being. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of humanity. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not overcome it. 6 A man came, sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This one came for a witness, in order that he could testify about the light, so that all would believe through him. 8 That one was not the light, but came in order that he could testify about the light. 9 The true light, who gives light to every person, was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world came into being through him, and the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to his own things, and his own people did not receive him. 12 But as many as received him—to those who believe in his name—he gave to them authority to become children of God, 13 who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of a husband, but of God. 14 And the Word became flesh and took up residence among us, and we saw his glory, glory as of the one and only from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 John testified about him and cried out, saying, “This one was he about whom I said, ‘The one who comes after me is ahead of me, because he existed before me.’ ” 16 For from his fullness we have all received, and grace after grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came about through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has seen God at any time; the one and only, God, the one who is in the bosom of the Father—that one has made him known.

Jesus Christ is the lord

1 Corinthians 8:5–6 (KJV 1900) — 5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.


Further the Old Testament verses I quoted show it was not the father. You just ignored them. Yet this personage is called Yahweh and God


Exodus 3:2–15 (LEB) — 2 And the angel of Yahweh appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush, and he looked, and there was the bush burning with fire, but the bush was not being consumed. 3 And Moses said, “Let me turn aside and see this great sight. Why does the bush not burn up?” 4 And Yahweh saw that he turned aside to see, and God called to him from the midst of the bush, and he said, “Moses, Moses.” And he said, “Here I am.” 5 And he said, “You must not come near to here. Take off your sandals from on your feet, because the place on which you are standing, it is holy ground.” 6 And he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face because he was afraid of looking at God. 7 And Yahweh said, “Surely I have seen the misery of my people who are in Egypt, and I have heard their cry of distress because of their oppressors, for I know their sufferings. 8 And I have come down to deliver them from the hand of the Egyptians and to bring them up from this land to a good and wide land, to a land flowing with milk and honey, to the place of the Canaanites and the Hittites and the Amorites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites. 9 And now, look, the cry of distress of the Israelites has come to me, and also I see the oppression with which the Egyptians are oppressing them. 10 And now come, and I will send you to Pharaoh, and you must bring my people, the Israelites, out from Egypt.” 11 But Moses said to God, “Who am I that I should go to Pharaoh and that I should bring the Israelites out from Egypt?” 12 And he said, “Because I am with you, and this will be the sign for you that I myself have sent you: When you bring the people out from Egypt, you will serve God on this mountain.” 13 But Moses said to God, “Look, if I go to the Israelites and I say to them, ‘The God of your ancestors has sent me to you,’ and they say to me, ‘What is his name?’ then what shall I say to them?” 14 And God said to Moses, “I am that I am.” And he said, “So you must say to the Israelites, ‘I am sent me to you.’ ” 15 And God said again to Moses, “So you must say to the Israelites, ‘Yahweh, the God of your ancestors, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is my name forever, and this is my remembrance from generation to generation.’


as for 1Cor 10 you conflate the physical rock which did not follow the Israelites with the spiritual rock which did follow aka the messenger of YHWH- Yahweh

you also ignored

1 Corinthians 10:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.

and

Jude 4–5 (KJV 1900) — 4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. 5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
 
You have a bad foundation. John did not teach an incarnation, but rather a creation. You're also verse padding. There is no mention of Jesus in the Old Testament saving anyone or doing anything

Some versions of Jude 1:5 say "the Lord" not "Jesus." The oldest manuscripts say "The Lord."

1 Corinthians 10:4 is in reference to a spiritual rock, not a literal Jesus being there. The rock that was struck and sprang forth water is foreshadowing of Jesus being pierced and water coming out.

1 Corinthians 10:9-10 isn't about Jesus pre-existing. The precedent established in 1 Cor. 10:4 rules that out.

That is a sign of desperation to deny who Christ is. You treat it like Paul just throws around the word "Christ" for all sorts of reasons rather than just about the pre-existent one we now know as Christ Jesus. For you, the words of scripture have to become meaningless so that you can deny Christ. You are not doing decent exegesis here.
 
YHWH isn't identified as the man who is Jesus. God is not the Lamb. Do you agree with that much? Otherwise, we will need to sort out how God died.
You assume YAHWEH is only one person

Scripture clearly shows that false

n certain texts, it seems impossible to distinguish between the angel of the Lord and the Lord himself (Gn 16:7–13; 21:17; 22:11–18; 24:7, 40; 31:11–13; 48:16; Ex 3:2–10; Judges 6:12–14; 13:21, 22). Sometimes the angel is depicted acting for the Lord and yet is addressed as the Lord. God says “you cannot see my face; for man shall not see me and live” (Ex 33:20), and yet Hagar (Gn 16:13), Jacob (Gn 32:30), and Moses (Ex 33:11) are said to have “seen God face to face” in view of their confrontation with this angel. God promises that his very presence will be among the Israelites, and yet it is the angel who goes with them (Ex 23:23). The commander of the army of God is given reverence equal to God’s (Jos 5:13–6:2). The angel seems to possess the full authority and character of God.



The Angel of the Lord appeared to Abraham

Genesis 22:11–19 (KJV 1900) — 11 And the angel of the Lord called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. 12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me. 13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son. 14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovah-jireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the Lord it shall be seen. 15 And the angel of the Lord called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, 16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the Lord, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: 17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; 18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice. 19 So Abraham returned unto his young men, and they rose up and went together to Beer-sheba; and Abraham dwelt at Beer-sheba.

The Angel of the Lord appeared to Moses

Exodus 3:2–15 (KJV 1900) — 2 And the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. 3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. 4 And when the Lord saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I. 5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. 6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God. 7 And the Lord said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows; 8 And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey; unto the place of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites. 9 Now therefore, behold, the cry of the children of Israel is come unto me: and I have also seen the oppression wherewith the Egyptians oppress them. 10 Come now therefore, and I will send thee unto Pharaoh, that thou mayest bring forth my people the children of Israel out of Egypt. 11 And Moses said unto God, Who am I, that I should go unto Pharaoh, and that I should bring forth the children of Israel out of Egypt? 12 And he said, Certainly I will be with thee; and this shall be a token unto thee, that I have sent thee: When thou hast brought forth the people out of Egypt, ye shall serve God upon this mountain. 13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

The Angel of the Lord appeared to Hagar

Genesis 16:7–13 (KJV 1900) — 7 And the angel of the Lord found her by a fountain of water in the wilderness, by the fountain in the way to Shur. 8 And he said, Hagar, Sarai’s maid, whence camest thou? and whither wilt thou go? And she said, I flee from the face of my mistress Sarai. 9 And the angel of the Lord said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands. 10 And the angel of the Lord said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude. 11 And the angel of the Lord said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the Lord hath heard thy affliction. 12 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man’s hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren. 13 And she called the name of the Lord that spake unto her, Thou God seest me: for she said, Have I also here looked after him that seeth me?



The Angel of the Lord appeared to Manoah

Judges 13:13–22 (KJV 1900) — 13 And the angel of the Lord said unto Manoah, Of all that I said unto the woman let her beware. 14 She may not eat of any thing that cometh of the vine, neither let her drink wine or strong drink, nor eat any unclean thing: all that I commanded her let her observe. 15 And Manoah said unto the angel of the Lord, I pray thee, let us detain thee, until we shall have made ready a kid for thee. 16 And the angel of the Lord said unto Manoah, Though thou detain me, I will not eat of thy bread: and if thou wilt offer a burnt offering, thou must offer it unto the Lord. For Manoah knew not that he was an angel of the Lord. 17 And Manoah said unto the angel of the Lord, What is thy name, that when thy sayings come to pass we may do thee honour? 18 And the angel of the Lord said unto him, Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it is secret? 19 So Manoah took a kid with a meat offering, and offered it upon a rock unto the Lord: and the angel did wondrously; and Manoah and his wife looked on. 20 For it came to pass, when the flame went up toward heaven from off the altar, that the angel of the Lord ascended in the flame of the altar. And Manoah and his wife looked on it, and fell on their faces to the ground. 21 But the angel of the Lord did no more appear to Manoah and to his wife. Then Manoah knew that he was an angel of the Lord. 22 And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God.

The Angel of the Lord appeared to Jacob

In a dream the Angel of the Lord said to me: Jacob! and I said, ‘Here am I.’

12 He said: Look and observe how all the he-goats that leap upon the flock are striped, speckled and mottled; for I have seen everything Laban is doing to you.

13 I am the God of Bethel, where you anointed a memorial pillar and where you made a vow to Me. Now, get ready, move out of this country and go back to your native land.” [1]

Genesis 28:18–22 (KJV 1900) — 18 And Jacob rose up early in the morning, and took the stone that he had put for his pillows, and set it up for a pillar, and poured oil upon the top of it. 19 And he called the name of that place Beth-el: but the name of that city was called Luz at the first. 20 And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on, 21 So that I come again to my father’s house in peace; then shall the Lord be my God: 22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God’s house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.
 
You have a bad foundation. John did not teach an incarnation, but rather a creation. You're also verse padding. There is no mention of Jesus in the Old Testament saving anyone or doing anything

Some versions of Jude 1:5 say "the Lord" not "Jesus." The oldest manuscripts say "The Lord."

1 Corinthians 10:4 is in reference to a spiritual rock, not a literal Jesus being there. The rock that was struck and sprang forth water is foreshadowing of Jesus being pierced and water coming out.

1 Corinthians 10:9-10 isn't about Jesus pre-existing. The precedent established in 1 Cor. 10:4 rules that out.
I tend to laugh a little when checking out. It always is a weird twist you put on the verses you think will support your opinion. I would almost be curious how you tie all the themes of John1 together while denying these are about Jesus's incarnation.
 
God showed his love by sending his Son from heaven. It it were someone other than the divine Son within the Godhead, God would just be having another man of which many had died before by the hand of rebellious people. I guess John 3:16 is outside of reach of your understanding. This was an act of empathy and compassion that people would know the demonstration of God's love so this love would not just be an abstract or theoretical concept. The other detail important here is that only through his only begotten son could the world be saved (v17). Again, this world could not be saved by martyrdom of another man dying by the hand of rebellious people. The task is beyond the benefit possible through a man
There's nothing in the following verse that says God the son or why God would come to the earth as a man. Nothing. Even this verse that you just quoted says son of God. But your Catholic eyes cannot see what is written. You see God the son and then make up a reason why God would come to the earth as a man that is not in the Scriptures. Search until you are blue in the face. You will not find a verse that says why Jesus came as a man because there's no such verse.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
 
There's nothing in the following verse that says God the son or why God would come to the earth as a man. Nothing. Even this verse that you just quoted says son of God. But your Catholic eyes cannot see what is written. You see God the son and then make up a reason why God would come to the earth as a man that is not in the Scriptures. Search until you are blue in the face. You will not find a verse that says why Jesus came as a man because there's no such verse.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
You would have to explain why having another man die at the hands of a rebellious person would save the world. YOu would also have to show why God's love does not matter. I guess saving the world is not something you would have wanted to happen. Maybe you can explain where your confusion lies. Do you just see your idea of a god as a deist who just created the world and let it spin whatever way you want it to be spinned? You seem to be against all that Jesus did.
 
You would have to explain why having another man die at the hands of a rebellious person would save the world. YOu would also have to show why God's love does not matter. I guess saving the world is not something you would have wanted to happen. Maybe you can explain where your confusion lies. Do you just see your idea of a god as a deist who just created the world and let it spin whatever way you want it to be spinned? You seem to be against all that Jesus did.
Oppsss... we have a typo. Should be...

Search until you are blue in the face. You will not find a verse that says why God came as a man because there's no such verse.

And not...

Search until you are blue in the face. You will not find a verse that says why Jesus came as a man because there's no such verse.

The Bible does not say or teach about this great love that is only in your mind being a reason to have God come to the earth as a man.
 
Oppsss... we have a typo. Should be...

Search until you are blue in the face. You will not find a verse that says why God came as a man because there's no such verse.

And not...

Search until you are blue in the face. You will not find a verse that says why Jesus came as a man because there's no such verse.

The Bible does not say or teach about this great love that is only in your mind being a reason to have God come to the earth as a man.
So your argument is that John 3:16-17 is just one big typo. You think that another martyr dying at the hands of a rebellious people is all that God had done for humanity. I cannot accept that doctrine as something scriptural.
 
ditto- and the million dollar question always boils down to this salvific one by Jesus.

WE know that a false christ equals a false gospel which gives people a false hope. Thats how deception works. Doubting what God has clearly stated in His word and twisting it with human reasoning/logic to deny Christs Person and teachings.

Who do people say that I Am ?

Jesus Himself is under attack and so is His gospel. There is only one way to heaven though the One who is the Way, the Truth and the Life. This One is God manifest in the flesh and Scripture teaches. The One who is the True God and Eternal Life, the Creator of all things, the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End- the Almighty God. The Son of man having the nature of man a human nature and the Son of God having a Divine nature, the nature of God. The one who is both God and man, human and Divine , the Only One who can save a man from their sins- the Savior of the world. And we know that no man can save another/redeem them to God as per Psalm 49:7. So this alone gives all the unitarians a false hope since they believe Jesus is only a man.

AMEN !!!!
Never let anyone tell you that a man cannot learn the bible for themselves .
In fact i would like to let us in on a secrete .
I know a man that goes around sites . He posts scriptures and reminders
but does so in modern english without giving the exact location of verse and chapter .
Do you want to know what that man is often accused of , OF NOT knowing and not bringing scipture .
AND YET its they who obviously DO NOT KNOW IT .
most have to run to cheat sheats , to things prepared by google and men .
And when their favorite scrips are not brought
that pastors have trained them WRONG IN
they have no idea scripture is even present . There are people
who truly did learn the bible for themselves . GOD called them to HIM
and put THEM into ONE BOOK and one book alone to learn and to grow .
We dont need all that other junk they claim we do to learn the bible .
HERE IS WHO we NEED . HE WHO INSPIRED THE TRUTH . HE IS SURELY ABLE to give us the understanding OF WHAT HE INSPIRED .
childlike faith . CHILD LIKE faith . how can a man know such things without ever having sat under
such well learned greek scholars and hermes and exegies . Better question is
MOST FOLKS were duped to some degree THROUGH those methods .
 
So your argument is that John 3:16-17 is just one big typo. You think that another martyr dying at the hands of a rebellious people is all that God had done for humanity. I cannot accept that doctrine as something scriptural.
No John is not a typo. What I wrote was a typo when I said Jesus instead of God. You twist and spin just as good as most.

Oppsss... we have a typo. Should be...

Search until you are blue in the face. You will not find a verse that says why God came as a man because there's no such verse.

And not...

Search until you are blue in the face. You will not find a verse that says why Jesus came as a man because there's no such verse.
 
No John is not a typo. What I wrote was a typo when I said Jesus instead of God. You twist and spin just as good as most.

Oppsss... we have a typo. Should be...

Search until you are blue in the face. You will not find a verse that says why God came as a man because there's no such verse.

And not...

Search until you are blue in the face. You will not find a verse that says why Jesus came as a man because there's no such verse.
So you are saying that Jesus came as a man but Christ did not? Jesus is God, specifically the Son, so you just neglect some verses to limit Jesus to be a man. You want scripture do the math for you, but God has allowed most Christians to do the math or trust it.
 
So you are saying that Jesus came as a man but Christ did not? Jesus is God, specifically the Son, so you just neglect some verses to limit Jesus to be a man. You want scripture do the math for you, but God has allowed most Christians to do the math or trust it.
Here I will post it again without the typo...

The only thing I want to learn here is why?

Why would God come to the earth as a man? Such a concept accomplishes nothing. Romans says a man (Adam) caused sin to enter into the world, and also that a man would have to redeem it from sin. The Bible specifically says that a man must do it. The book of Corinthians makes the same point Romans does when it says “For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead” (1 Corinthians 15:21). There's nothing in the Scriptures that says why God would come to the earth as a man. Nothing. But your Catholic eyes cannot see what is written. You see God the son when the Scriptures say son of God and then make up a reason why God would come to the earth as a man that is not in the Scriptures. Search until you are blue in the face. You will not find a verse that says why God came as a man to the earth.
 
Here I will post it again without the typo...

The only thing I want to learn here is why?

Why would God come to the earth as a man? Such a concept accomplishes nothing. Romans says a man (Adam) caused sin to enter into the world, and also that a man would have to redeem it from sin. The Bible specifically says that a man must do it. The book of Corinthians makes the same point Romans does when it says “For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead” (1 Corinthians 15:21). There's nothing in the Scriptures that says why God would come to the earth as a man. Nothing. But your Catholic eyes cannot see what is written. You see God the son when the Scriptures say son of God and then make up a reason why God would come to the earth as a man that is not in the Scriptures. Search until you are blue in the face. You will not find a verse that says why God came as a man to the earth.
You keep on mentioning about a man doing certain stuff (even if your verses do not always pertain to the topic). There is no problem referring to Jesus as a man since that is what the incarnation is. That does not interfere with the passages showing Jesus' divine nature in the Godhead --even if we have to take the broad scripture into account to show this. Using the broad scripture is better than denying his divinity in the Godhead. John 1 of course is the biggest passage you twist and turn to deny its identification of the divinity of Christ. I suppose God had this in mind for this passage-- let those who do not believe deny the truth suffer the consequences.
I cannot determine your heart or what will come of your following your interpretations. But you show weird interpretations beyond just denying the divinity of Christ. So this is not a narrow issue.
 
You keep on mentioning about a man doing certain stuff (even if your verses do not always pertain to the topic). There is no problem referring to Jesus as a man since that is what the incarnation is. That does not interfere with the passages showing Jesus' divine nature in the Godhead --even if we have to take the broad scripture into account to show this. Using the broad scripture is better than denying his divinity in the Godhead. John 1 of course is the biggest passage you twist and turn to deny its identification of the divinity of Christ. I suppose God had this in mind for this passage-- let those who do not believe deny the truth suffer the consequences.
I cannot determine your heart or what will come of your following your interpretations. But you show weird interpretations beyond just denying the divinity of Christ. So this is not a narrow issue.
Oh I see Jesus was not really God. He was a man hooked to God. Got it.
 
I tend to laugh a little when checking out. It always is a weird twist you put on the verses you think will support your opinion. I would almost be curious how you tie all the themes of John1 together while denying these are about Jesus's incarnation.
It's an incredible effort at denial
 
You keep on mentioning about a man doing certain stuff (even if your verses do not always pertain to the topic). There is no problem referring to Jesus as a man since that is what the incarnation is. That does not interfere with the passages showing Jesus' divine nature in the Godhead --even if we have to take the broad scripture into account to show this. Using the broad scripture is better than denying his divinity in the Godhead. John 1 of course is the biggest passage you twist and turn to deny its identification of the divinity of Christ. I suppose God had this in mind for this passage-- let those who do not believe deny the truth suffer the consequences.
I cannot determine your heart or what will come of your following your interpretations. But you show weird interpretations beyond just denying the divinity of Christ. So this is not a narrow issue.
Several key places show us the truth my friend .
Notice when John was in the SPIRIT on the LORDS day
and heard Behind him this thunderous voice saying I AM ALPHA and OMEGA , the First and the last .
He then turns to see who was speaking with this voice
and seen one who looked like the Son of man with snow white hair , etc
HE falls and his feet
to hear THESE WORDS , I AM the FIRST and the LAST .........................
THEMS JESUS own words from heaven . No wonder they wont read revelation either .
 
Duh. Jesus only became flesh one time. This was not an every day event. But I guess you are not familiar with his uniqueness.


I can still give you time to figure it out. When we follow sola scriptura, it is not for the purpose of supporting your misinterpretation.

Since the world was not made by any man, you have just argued that Jesus existed before being a man. That is the message of this passage. So you have it right when you say Jesus could not just be a man.
I am not arguing that Jesus existed before being a man. I am saying that Jesus isn't God. That's my main point in the Trinitarian subforum. Why are there no examples of Jesus creating or atleast a reference to a trinity creating in the Bible?

I think I have already asked you this before, but when you get a moment, just literally pick any verse that has the word "God" in it and replace it with "Trinity." This shouldn't be a problem for you because God is a trinity in your beliefs and wouldn't violate the rule of adding to or taking away from scripture. What you will discover is that literally anywhere you replace the word "God" with "Trinity" that it creates massive contextual issues and actually debunks the deity of the Jesus, placing him external to the trinity, on more than one occasion. Just try it in your free time.
 
You are in denial

John taught God became flesh. That is incarnation

John 1:1–18 (LEB) — 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 This one was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through him, and apart from him not one thing came into being that has come into being. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of humanity. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not overcome it. 6 A man came, sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This one came for a witness, in order that he could testify about the light, so that all would believe through him. 8 That one was not the light, but came in order that he could testify about the light. 9 The true light, who gives light to every person, was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world came into being through him, and the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to his own things, and his own people did not receive him. 12 But as many as received him—to those who believe in his name—he gave to them authority to become children of God, 13 who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of a husband, but of God. 14 And the Word became flesh and took up residence among us, and we saw his glory, glory as of the one and only from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 John testified about him and cried out, saying, “This one was he about whom I said, ‘The one who comes after me is ahead of me, because he existed before me.’ ” 16 For from his fullness we have all received, and grace after grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came about through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has seen God at any time; the one and only, God, the one who is in the bosom of the Father—that one has made him known.

Jesus Christ is the lord

1 Corinthians 8:5–6 (KJV 1900) — 5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.


Further the Old Testament verses I quoted show it was not the father. You just ignored them. Yet this personage is called Yahweh and God


Exodus 3:2–15 (LEB) — 2 And the angel of Yahweh appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush, and he looked, and there was the bush burning with fire, but the bush was not being consumed. 3 And Moses said, “Let me turn aside and see this great sight. Why does the bush not burn up?” 4 And Yahweh saw that he turned aside to see, and God called to him from the midst of the bush, and he said, “Moses, Moses.” And he said, “Here I am.” 5 And he said, “You must not come near to here. Take off your sandals from on your feet, because the place on which you are standing, it is holy ground.” 6 And he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face because he was afraid of looking at God. 7 And Yahweh said, “Surely I have seen the misery of my people who are in Egypt, and I have heard their cry of distress because of their oppressors, for I know their sufferings. 8 And I have come down to deliver them from the hand of the Egyptians and to bring them up from this land to a good and wide land, to a land flowing with milk and honey, to the place of the Canaanites and the Hittites and the Amorites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites. 9 And now, look, the cry of distress of the Israelites has come to me, and also I see the oppression with which the Egyptians are oppressing them. 10 And now come, and I will send you to Pharaoh, and you must bring my people, the Israelites, out from Egypt.” 11 But Moses said to God, “Who am I that I should go to Pharaoh and that I should bring the Israelites out from Egypt?” 12 And he said, “Because I am with you, and this will be the sign for you that I myself have sent you: When you bring the people out from Egypt, you will serve God on this mountain.” 13 But Moses said to God, “Look, if I go to the Israelites and I say to them, ‘The God of your ancestors has sent me to you,’ and they say to me, ‘What is his name?’ then what shall I say to them?” 14 And God said to Moses, “I am that I am.” And he said, “So you must say to the Israelites, ‘I am sent me to you.’ ” 15 And God said again to Moses, “So you must say to the Israelites, ‘Yahweh, the God of your ancestors, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is my name forever, and this is my remembrance from generation to generation.’


as for 1Cor 10 you conflate the physical rock which did not follow the Israelites with the spiritual rock which did follow aka the messenger of YHWH- Yahweh

you also ignored

1 Corinthians 10:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.

and

Jude 4–5 (KJV 1900) — 4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. 5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
You're ignoring several important things here. For starters, John 1:1 doesn't say Jesus is the Word. Strike one.

1 Corinthians 8:6 says there is only one God, the Father. Strike two.

1 Corinthians 10:4 is in reference to a spiritual rock, not a literal Jesus being there. The rock that was struck and sprang forth water is foreshadowing of Jesus being pierced and water coming out.

1 Corinthians 10:9-10 isn't about Jesus pre-existing. The precedent established in 1 Cor. 10:4 rules that out.

You have no openings to make Jesus god. You're mixing spiritual concepts with theology. There is no Jesus in the Old Testament.
 
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