Thomas... My Lord and my God

[civic]

I don't know how much of the body of Jesus is real flesh and bone because it's a spiritual body and nobody knows what that is like. I write about it this way...

We will have a spiritual body that Christ gives at his return that will be like his resurrected body that is unlimited in scope and activity.

The spiritual body is a body belonging to the spiritual realm that will be influenced by or proceeding from what is spiritual. How glorious and awesome that is! How magnificent and unlimited in scope and activity that new body will be. We shall be LIKE HIM with a body that will be spirit eternal, vivacious, and remarkable. Just think how incredible our physical senses will be at that time, unaffected by a contaminated bloodstream, and completely laced with and based upon a life-quickening spirit.

Jesus resurrected body as He declared was actual flesh and bones. The disciples saw His resurrected body and touched it as His body still contains the marks on if from His crucifixion in His hands, feet and side.

Without the bodily resurrection which was permanent one has no Savior and you are still dead in your sins according to the Apostle Paul. 1 Corinthians 15:17

Many deny Jesus was Resurrected and Ascended into heaven bodily( a human body with real flesh and bones) and are still dead in their sins even though they might claim to be a christian. That is an oxymoron.

Luke 24:37-43
37 But they were startled and frightened and thought that they were seeing a spirit. 38 And He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39 "See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." 40 And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet. 41 While they still could not believe it because of their joy and amazement, He said to them, "Have you anything here to eat?" 42 They gave Him a piece of a broiled fish; 43 and He took it and ate it before them.

John 20:24-25
24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples were saying to him, "We have seen the Lord!" But he said to them, "Unless I see in His hands the imprint of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe."

John 20:27-28
27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see My hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side. Stop doubting and believe." 28 Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

There is one Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. (1Timothy 2:5) post ascension.

Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever.(Hebrews 13:5) Changeless, Immutable. Jesus was a man when He walked this earth, when He Ascended and when He will return again at His 2nd Coming.

1 Corinthians 15:1-8
Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.

3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; 7 then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; 8 and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also.

1 Corinthians 15:14-18
14 and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain. 15 Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised; 17 and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.

2 Corinthians 5:1-10
For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands. 2 We grow weary in our present bodies, and we long to put on our heavenly bodies like new clothing. 3 For we will put on heavenly bodies; we will not be spirits without bodies. 4 While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it's not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life. 5 God himself has prepared us for this, and as a guarantee he has given us his Holy Spirit.6 So we are always confident, even though we know that as long as we live in these bodies we are not at home with the Lord. 7 For we live by believing and not by seeing. 8 Yes, we are fully confident, and we would rather be away from these earthly bodies, for then we will be at home with the Lord. 9 So whether we are here in this body or away from this body, our goal is to please him.


In Heaven.... Hebrews 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken [this is] the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

Look up the meaning of the word soma below, it always means a physical body in relation to anthropos(man).

His Body.....Philippians 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

Philippians 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Matthew 27:52-53
52 The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

Philippians 3:20-21
And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

1 Corinthians 15:44-45
44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15 that if Christ be not risen your faith is in vain and you are still dead in your sins- an unbeliever who is lost. Those who deny the physical bodily resurrection of Jesus such as the JW's who teach that Jesus is now a spirit based being fit into this camp. They deny the resurrection.

If we look at what Paul is saying in this passage, it is that corruptible flesh and blood shall not enter the kingdom. Paul says corruptible does not inherit the incorruptible. Paul is not saying the resurrection body will not have flesh but what he declares is that the resurrected body will not have perishable flesh. Remember in Luke Jesus said see here My hands and feet, touch Me a spirit/ghost does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have. Peter, Paul and John all agree that Jesus still had flesh well after His ascension. 1 John being the last of the books of the three Apostles declared that Jesus having come in the flesh and those who deny this are the spirit of antichrist. John makes it clear that the Incarnation was permanent. Jesus is forever both God and man. This is what Paul teaches in the whole 15th chapter of 1 Corinthians. The glorious physical bodies that we will have in the resurrection. We will have incorruptible bodies just as Jesus now has in heaven.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Peterlag]

whew. it is good to note that the coverage is so comprehensive but still has failed to have decent arguments against the Trinitarian doctrine. I certainly would have expected to see better arguments by the Unitarians if their view had been correct.
One of things duked out with runningman was his denial of Jesus raising himself in John 2:19-21. There is no denial of Jesus having the ability to raise himself and of him knowing that. So some other manner of Jesus doing this as a man would need to be given.
Another minute scan of your link shows the same error as runningman, namely of the verses speaking of Jesus as a man overriding the evidence of him equal to the Father in essence/nature. The humanity of Jesus is accepted by most people. It is the argument against his divinity in the Godhead that has to be addressed.

Like I said before... if Jesus came to you personally and said I'm not God. You would say prove it.

 

[civic]

I don't know how much of the body of Jesus is real flesh and bone because it's a spiritual body and nobody knows what that is like. I write about it this way...

We will have a spiritual body that Christ gives at his return that will be like his resurrected body that is unlimited in scope and activity.

The spiritual body is a body belonging to the spiritual realm that will be influenced by or proceeding from what is spiritual. How glorious and awesome that is! How magnificent and unlimited in scope and activity that new body will be. We shall be LIKE HIM with a body that will be spirit eternal, vivacious, and remarkable. Just think how incredible our physical senses will be at that time, unaffected by a contaminated bloodstream, and completely laced with and based upon a life-quickening spirit.

Correcting the false teaching that flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God, a spiritual body is immaterial and the meaning of a life giving Spirit.

1 CORINTHIANS 15:50: “Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.”

Jehovah’s Witnesses claim that Jesus could not have risen in His human body of flesh and bones, because Scripture states that “flesh and blood” cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Notice that Jesus did not say that His resurrected body was made of “flesh and blood.” Rather, He said His body was made of “flesh and bone” (Luke 24:39). This is significant because the term “flesh and blood” is often used in Scripture to refer to mortal humanity,in contrast to the imperishable, resurrected body alluded to by the phrase, “flesh and bones.”

Far from claiming that the resurrected human body cannot inherit God’s kingdom, this passage asserts that the mortal, perishable human body (made of flesh and blood) cannot inherit the immortal, imperishable kingdom of God. Indeed as 1 Corinthians 15:53 states, “this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put onimmortality.”

A spiritual body denotes an immortal body. A spiritual body is one that is dominated by the spirit, not one that is devoid of matter. The Greek word pneumatikos means a body that is directed by the spirit as opposed to one under the dominion of the flesh. It is not ruled by the flesh that perishes but by the spirit that endures. (1 Corinthians 15:50-58). A spiritual body does no mean immaterial or invisible but immortal and imperishable. Paul makes these parallels:

Earthly- Heavenly (verse 40)
Perishable- Imperishable (verse 42)
Weak- Powerful(verse 43)
Natural-Supernatural(verse 44)
Mortal- Immortal(verse 53)

The content shows that spiritual (pneumatikos) could be translated supernatural in contrast to natural from the parallels of perishable and imperishable, corruptible and incorruptible. Pneumatikos is translated supernatural in 1 Corinthians 10:4regarding the supernatural rock that followed them in the wilderness. In the translation spiritual refers to physical objects. In 1 Corinthians 10:45 Paul spoke of the spiritual rock that followed Israel in the wilderness from which they got spiritual drink 1 Corinthians 10:4.But the OT story (Exodus 17,Numbers 20)reveals it was a physical rock from which they got literal water to drink. The actual water they drank from the material rock was produced supernaturally. Further Paul spoke about a spiritual man 1 Corinthians 2:15 he obviously did not mean an invisible, immaterial man with no corporeal body. He was as a matter of fact speaking of a flesh and blood human being whose life is lived by the supernatural power of God, a literal person whose life is Spirit directed. A spiritual man is one who is taught by the Spirit and who receives the things that come from the Spirit of God. (1 Corinthians 2:13-14). The resurrection body can be called a spiritual body in much the same way we speak of the bible being a spiritual book. Regardless of their spiritual source and power both the resurrection body and the bible are material objects.

Life giving Spirit does not speak of the nature of Christ’s resurrected body but of the divine origin of the resurrection. Jesus physical body came back to life only by the power of God.(Romans 1:4). Paul is speaking about its spiritual source not its physical substance as a material body. If spirit describes the nature of Christ’s resurrected body then Adam with whom He is contrasted must not have a soul since he is described as of the earth, made of dust (verse 47). But the bible clearly says that Adam was a living soul(Genesis 2:7). Christ’s body is called a spiritual body(soma) which always means a physical body when referring to an individual human being. The resurrected body is called spiritual and life giving spirit because its source is in the spiritual realm, not because its substance is immaterial. Christ’s supernatural resurrection body is from heaven as Adams natural body was from the earth. (verse 47). But just as the one from earth has an immaterial soul even so the One from heaven has a material body. Rhodes

1 Corinthians 15:38-41
But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fishanother. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the starsanother; and star differs from star in splendor.

A summary of the bodies mentioned above are all PHYSICAL in nature

1- people
2- seed
3-animals
4-birds
5-fish
6- heavenly - the sun, moon and stars
7- earthly- all inclusive 1-5

So as we can see BODY above are all PHYSICAL in nature.

These Greek Lexicons agree that soma is physical just like Paul declares in 1 Corinthians 15

Every Greek Lexicon and Dictionary agrees that the Resurrected BODY(SOMA) is physical and not immaterial.

Strong's Concordance
sóma: a body
Original Word: σῶμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: sóma
Phonetic Spelling: (so'-mah)
Definition: a body
Usage: body, flesh;
HELPS Word-studies
4983 sṓma – the physical body.

NT:4983) is "the body as a whole, the instrument of life," whether of man living, e. g., Matt 6:22, or dead, Matt 27:52; or in resurrection, 1 Corinthians 15:44; or of beasts, Heb 13:11; of grain, 1 Cor 15:37-38; of the heavenly hosts, 1 Cor 15:40.

(from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, Copyright © 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers.)

More proof soma is physical

as in Greek writings from Hesiod down, the living body: — of animals, James 3:3; — of man: τό σῶμα, absolutely, Luke 11:34; Luke 12:23; 1 Corinthians 6:13, etc.; ἐν σώματι εἶναι, of earthly life with its troubles, Hebrews 13:3; distinguished from τό αἷμα, 1 Corinthians 11:27; τό σῶμα and τά μέλη of it, 1 Corinthians 12:12, 14-20; James 3:6; τό σῶμα the temple of τό ἅγιον πνεῦμα, 1 Corinthians 6:19; the instrument of the soul, τά διά τοῦ σωματου namely, πραχθεντα, 2 Corinthians 5:10; it is distinguished — from τό πνεῦμα, in Romans 8:10; 1 Corinthians 5:3; 1 Corinthians 6:20 Rec.; ; James 2:26 (4 Macc. 11:11); — from ἡ ψυχή, in Matthew 6:25; Matthew 10:28; Luke 12:22 (Wis. 1:4 Wis. 8:19f; 2 Macc. 7:37 2Macc. 14:38; 4 Macc. 1:28, etc.); — from ἡ ψυχή and τό πνεῦμα together, in 1 Thessalonians 5:23 (cf. Song of the Three, 63); σῶμα ψυχικόν and σῶμα πνευματικόν are distinguished, 1 Corinthians 15:44(see πνευματικός, 1 and ψυχικός, a.); τό σῶμα τίνος, Matthew 5:29; Luke 11:34; Romans 4:19; Romans 8:23 (cf. Winer's Grammar, 187 (176)), etc.; ὁ ναός τοῦ σωματου αὐτοῦ, the temple which was his body, John 2:21; plural, Romans 1:24; 1 Corinthians 6:15; Ephesians 5:28; the genitive of the possessor is omitted where it is easily learned from the context, as 1 Corinthians 5:3; 2 Corinthians 4:10; 2 Corinthians 5:8; Hebrews 10:22(23), etc.; τό σῶμα τῆς ταπεινώσεως ἡμῶν, the body of our humiliation (subjective genitive), i. e. which we wear in this servile and lowly human life, opposed to τό σῶμα τῆς δόξης αὐτοῦ (i. e. τοῦ Χριστοῦ), the body which Christ has in his glorified state with God in heaven, Philippians 3:21; διά τοῦ σωματου τοῦ Χριστοῦ, through the death of Christ's body, Romans 7:4; διά τῆς προσφοράς τοῦ σωματου Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, through the sacrificial offering of the body of Jesus Christ, Hebrews 10:10; τό σῶμα τῆς σαρκός, the body consisting of flesh, i. e. the physical body

Thayers Greek Lexicon

hope this helps !!!

 

[civic]

Continued:

Spiritual does not mean immaterial as those who reject the physical, bodily Resurrection of Christ

Philippians 3:20-21
For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; 21who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.
NASB

Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you.
NASB

Believers bodies will be transformed from its current state which is corrupt, sinful mortal to a body like His which Incorruptible, Holy/Sinless and Immortal in the Resurrection as per 1 Cor 15, Romans 8:11, Phil 3:21.

And when we compare the above with Paul in these passages below we see that the body(soma) in the context is a real material body which is physical in the Resurrection but controlled completely by the Spirit in the afterlife.

pneumatikos: spiritual

Original Word: πνευματικός, ή, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: pneumatikos
Phonetic Spelling: (pnyoo-mat-ik-os')
Definition: spiritual
Usage: spiritual.



Thayer’s Greek Lexicon- belonging to the Divine Spirit; Used 26 times in the N.T.

a. in reference to things; emanating from the Divine Spirit, or exhibiting its effects and so its character: χάρισμα, Romans 1:11; εὐλογία, Ephesians 1:3; σοφία καί σύνεσις πνευματικῇ (opposed to σοφία σαρκικῇ, 2 Corinthians 1:12; ψυχική, James 3:15), Colossians 1:9; ᾠδαί, divinely inspired, and so redolent of the Holy Spirit, Colossians 3:16; (Ephesians 5:19 Lachmann brackets); ὁ νόμος (opposed to a σάρκινος man), Romans 7:14; θυσίαι, tropically, the acts of a life dedicated to God and approved by him, due to the influence of the Holy Spirit (tacitly opposed to the sacrifices of an external worship), 1 Peter 2:5; equivalent to produced by the sole power of God himself without natural instrumeutality, supernatural, βρῶμα, πόμα, πέτρα, 1 Corinthians 10:3, 4 ((cf. 'Teaching' etc. 10, 3 [ET])); πνευματικά, thoughts, opinions, precepts, maxims, ascribable to the Holy Spirit working in the soul, 1 Corinthians 2:13 (on which see συγκρίνω, 1); τά πνευματικά, spirithal gifts — of the endowments called χαρίσματα (see χάρισμα), 1 Corinthians 12:1; 1 Corinthians 14:1; universally, the spiritual or heavenly blessings of the gospel, opposed to τά σαρκικά, Romans 15:27; (1 Corinthians 9:11).

b. in reference to persons; one who is filled with and governed by the Spirit of God: 1 Corinthians 2:15 (cf. ); (); ; Galatians 6:1; οἶκος πνευματικός, of a body of Christians (see οἶκος, 1 b. at the end), 1 Peter 2:5. (The word is not found in the O. T. (cf. Winers Grammar, § 34, 3).


Natural(psychikos) body
Spiritual(pneumatikos) body


1 Corinthians 15:44
it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

Below we see how Paul uses and contrasts the words natural (psychikos) and spiritual (pneumatikos) below;


1 Corinthians 2:14-16
14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. 15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no man.

Paul is clearly contrasting the unsaved with the saved with the natural man and spiritual man. One is controlled by the natural or the flesh while the other is controlled by the spirit/spiritual- Holy Spirit. Just like in 1 Cor 15:44 where Paul is contrasting the natural body that is controlled by the flesh with the spiritual body that is controlled by the Spirit. Both are real physical bodies but the difference is one is controlled by the flesh which is carnal and the other is controlled by the Spirit and is spiritual. One has the appetites and desires of the flesh while the other has appetites and desires controlled by the Spirit. Hence a spiritual body is one that is controlled by the Spirit of God in the Resurrection.

Paul’s usage below of spiritual(pneumatikos) in 1 Corinthians 10 where he calls the rock, food and drink spiritual it does not mean an immaterial rock, food and drink but a real Rock, Manna and Water which were with the Israelites in the wilderness wanderings.

1 Corinthians 10:1-4
For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 and all ate the same spiritual food; 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rockwhich followed them; and the rock was Christ.

Now Paul drives home the point of our new literal physical bodies below in heaven from the text in 2nd Cor 5 below;

2 Corinthians 5:1-5
For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands. 2 We grow weary in our present bodies, and we long to put on our heavenly bodieslike new clothing. 3 For we will put on heavenly bodies; we will not be spirits without bodies. 4 While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it's not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life. 5 God himself has prepared us for this, and as a guarantee he has given us his Holy Spirit.

You see there is no bodiless spirit men in heaven unclothed (no body) but indeed with a heavenly body (like Jesus) has now in heaven which is flesh and bones like He said His Resurrected body was to His Disciples.

Spiritual is used to describe these physical things:

the spiritual man
he who is spiritual
the spiritual rock
the spiritual food
the spiritual drink
the spiritual songs
the spiritual house
the spiritual things
the spiritual body

hope this helps,

 

[civic]

I did not say it was on the Internet because that made it true or not. I said it was on the Internet in case someone wanted a copy.

My research on the resurrection is 100% biblical with more references and biblical definitions from Greek lexicons. I’ll stick with the truth I posted in this thread on the biblical account of Jesus resurrected human tangible body.

 

[mikesw]

Like I said before... if Jesus came to you personally and said I'm not God. You would say prove it.

And if the ocean turned into marbles ... Maybe the issue is not what Jesus said but rather that your theory does not match with scriptures properly interpreted.
You might hold to your religion based on beliefs you have formulated. But if you are going to share them to other people, you need to address the existing orthodox teaching in reasonable scope. That might not work anyhow since the explanations shared so far fall short of explaining the passages reflecting Jesus as God with us.

 

[Peterlag]

And if the ocean turned into marbles ... Maybe the issue is not what Jesus said but rather that your theory does not match with scriptures properly interpreted.
You might hold to your religion based on beliefs you have formulated. But if you are going to share them to other people, you need to address the existing orthodox teaching in reasonable scope. That might not work anyhow since the explanations shared so far fall short of explaining the passages reflecting Jesus as God with us.

I have plainly said Jesus is the son of God. The Scriptures say he's the son of God about 50 times. Not once does the Bible say he's God the son. You say that son of God does not mean son of God. And then you say I'm not explaining it properly.

 

[Peterlag]

My research on the resurrection is 100% biblical with more references and biblical definitions from Greek lexicons. I’ll stick with the truth I posted in this thread on the biblical account of Jesus resurrected human tangible body.

What human tangible body is like the one Jesus was raised with?

 

[civic]

What human tangible body is like the one Jesus was raised with?

The same one the disciples saw, touched and wrote about in the N.T.

 

[mikesw]

I have plainly said Jesus is the son of God. The Scriptures say he's the son of God about 50 times. Not once does the Bible say he's God the son. You say that son of God does not mean son of God. And then you say I'm not explaining it properly.

Sorry. I did not realize you had said Jesus appeared with the same essence as God the Father.

 

[Peterlag]

The same one the disciples saw, touched and wrote about in the N.T.

I think we partly agree on the body. I know it was nothing like the body he had when he died. So we don't really know what it is like or capable of.

 

[Runningman]

Why the hurry to leave John 1:9 so fast? Here is John 1:9 again in Koine Greek with its transliteral conversion into English. Pay special attention to the Greek word ὃ.

(John 1:9) ῏Ην τὸ φῶς τὸ ἀληθινόν, ὃ φωτίζει πάντα ἄνθρωπον, ἐρχόμενον εἰς τὸν κόσμον.
Was the Light the Real, who shines all mankind, coming into the world.

ὃ is a personal independent nominative pronoun in Greek, never used for a thing or an it. An independent nominative pronoun for a thing is τό.

Therefore, the subject that the pronoun ὃ refers to ("τὸ φῶς τὸ ἀληθινόν", the Light the Real) is therefore a person, not a thing, by Greek standards. The Unitarianism attempt to infect and warp Greek will never succeed.

I can do an analysis of John 1:5 also, time permitting. Anyways, John 1:9 is proof enough.

BTW, the KJV version I used was MKJV which E-Sword supplies with its downloads.

John 1:9 is written in the present tense. How could Jesus already be 30 years old when the true Light was coming into the world?

 

[Runningman]

Indeed he did

John 1:6–17 (KJV 1900) — 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. 16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Maybe you should just believe what is written instead of inventing reasons for disbelief

John 1:1–5 (KJV 1900) — 1 IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

YHWH isn't identified as the man who is Jesus. God is not the Lamb. Do you agree with that much? Otherwise, we will need to sort out how God died.

 

[synergy]

John 1:9 is written in the present tense. How could Jesus already be 30 years old when the true Light was coming into the world?

All I can say is that the commas make a massive difference as to who the subject is. There were no commas in the originals. Take out the commas and the subject changes from the Real Light to "all mankind".

Anyways, the Greek personal independent nominative pronoun ὃ proves that the Real Light is a Person, not a thing.

 

[Runningman]

All I can say is that the commas make a massive difference as to who the subject is. There were no commas in the originals. Take out the commas and the subject changes from the Real Light to "all mankind".

Anyways, the Greek personal independent nominative pronoun ὃ proves that the Real Light is a Person, not a thing.

The subject is the true Light who gives light to every man entering the world. Is Jesus a man who entered the world?

 

[synergy]

The subject is the true Light who gives light to every man entering the world.

So you are of the opinion that it's "every man entering the world". That would mean no commas which is fine with me as there were no commas in the originals.

Is Jesus a man who entered the world?

As a human being, Jesus entered the world in the form of a human.
In OT times, the PreIncarnate Jesus, in the form of God (Phil 2:6), had previously entered the world as evidenced in the Theophanies.

 

[civic]

All I can say is that the commas make a massive difference as to who the subject is. There were no commas in the originals. Take out the commas and the subject changes from the Real Light to "all mankind".

Anyways, the Greek personal independent nominative pronoun ὃ proves that the Real Light is a Person, not a thing.

Amen