Johann
Well-known member
The verse you quoted negates your assertion that Jesus had His OWN will DISTINCT from His Father.
J.
Thomas... My Lord and my God
- Thread starter Peterlag
- Start date
J.
civic
Well-known member
Their will was One in perfect unity.
TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY
Well-known member
Yea rather that which is commonly called interfaith IS a co helper and of that which is of anti christ .
WHO is a liar . HE who denies that JESUS is the CHRIST .
and yet your beloved pope and protestant realm go around under interfaith
telling the churches and them poor lost religoins , HEY WE SERVING the same GOD in different ways .
Omitting and making THE DIRE NEED to BELEIVE JESUS is the CHRIST null and void .
Hollering dont judge there are good people in all religoins . YEAH RIGHT PETER .
according to man they might be good but NOT according to GOD , not HIS standards .
Better have no part or lott in their matter . THEY bring not the true gospel . DONT even bid them god speed .
YET many join hands with them believing we shall attain peace n safety by this .........
You do realize that serpents can wear wool . THIS whole finding common ground bridge builder
was to simply prepare all to THE LIE and make ready a peoples of anti christ , NOT CHRIST .
TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY
Well-known member
I have heard it said that GOD is just . HE IS .Their will was One in perfect unity.
And then some have turned around and tried to prove he is not just by saying
WHY would he then put a man to torment , to suffer FOR the sins of mankind .
TO which i say , HE DIDNT JUST put a man , HE IS HIS WORD , HE did this and not man .
GOD , HIS WORD , did become flesh
and Upheld HIS OWN RIGHTEOUS STANDARDS . something no man could ever do .
There is no just man , all have sinned , all have fallen short .
GOD DID THIS for our sakes . HE IS JUST
and He used not the blood of bulls and of goats , HE used not the blood of mere mortal man
HE used the BLOOD of THE WORD OF GOD , GOD IS HIS WORD , to cleanse and to save
all who do beleive .
There is a massive hint within the TORAH itself that shows us something .
The Priests , THE HIGH PRIEST , none could be a priest and approach
and perform the sacrfices , IF he had a mole , a blemish of any sort .
But what did He tell samuel . Look not upon the outside , fOR I LOOK upon the inside .
THE ONLY TRUE GREAT HIGH PRIEST that ever was WITHOUT BLEMISH on the inside
could not ever have been just a mere mortal man . HAD TO BE SOMEONE ELSE
GOD HAD TOGET THE JOB DONE HIMSELF for us . People better watch out when they so easily attack
the very one who said I AM ALPHA and OMEGA , the first and the last
AS THEY HOLLER LOUDLY TO HEAVEN and unto man , YOU A LIAR , YOU ARE NO SUCH THING , THEY SAY .
people better watch out lest they incur HEAVY wrath upon themselves j.
TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY
Well-known member
Many sure love to call the very one WHO called HIMSELF , the alpha and omega , the first and the last
A liar . Now i invite all to go again to the book of revelation
and you see WHO SAYS Them very words . SO while you might not understand this , BETTER NOT CALL HIM A LIAR .
A liar . Now i invite all to go again to the book of revelation
and you see WHO SAYS Them very words . SO while you might not understand this , BETTER NOT CALL HIM A LIAR .
civic
Well-known member
God didn't do that, sinful men were responsible for His suffering, torture and death.
TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY
Well-known member
You remember the saying , LET GOD be true but every man a liar .
Its not GOD who does or even can LIE , but men sure can .
SO how do we know if one is calling GOD a liar .
Well first off they dont BELIEVE HIS TESIMONY concering the SON .
and also this , WHEN they omit HIS own words which HE said and say NOT TRUE . THEY call GOD a liar .
Yet many sure seem to want to call CHRIST a liar .
How so
I am alpha and omega , the first and the last . DID HE NOT SAY THIS FROM HEAVEN .
yet it sure seems many say to him , YOU LIE , you are not the alpha and omega , the first and the last .
GOD is not HIS WORD they cry
GOD is not HIS SPIRIT they cry
I shudder in terror for men who CALL GOD THE LIAR . i really do .
TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY
Well-known member
Well it was HIS plan . but yes it was done by sinful men
civic
Well-known member
We see God the Son described His own death, the Atonement in 4 ways. Theology begins with God. He said His death was a Substitution, a Ransom, a Passover, a Sacrifice and for forgiveness of sins.
1- Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. John 15:13 Substitution, Ransom
2-No man takes my life I lay it down and I will take it up again- John 10:18 Substitution, Ransom
3- I lay My life down for the sheep- John 10:15Substitution, Ransom
4- Jesus viewed His death as the Passover John 6:51
5-just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a Ransom for many- Matthew 20:28
6-I Am the Good Shepherd who lays down His life for the sheep- Substitution, John 10:11
7-Jesus said in John 11:50- nor do you take into account that it is expedient for you that one man die for the people, and that the whole nation not perish- Substitution
8 -This is my blood of the Covenant which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins- Matthew 26:28
Who put Jesus to death, who was responsible ?
Acts 2:23
this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men.
Acts 2:36
“Therefore, let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”
Acts 4:10- Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole…
Acts 5:30- The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree
Matthew 16:21
From that time on Jesus began to show His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests, and scribes, and that He must be killed and on the third day be raised to life
Matthew 20:18-19
“We are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death and will deliver Him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. And on the third day He will be raised to life."
Matthew 27:1- When the morning was come, all the chief priests and elders of the people took counsel against Jesus to put him to death:
Matthew 27:35- When they had crucified Him, they divided up His garments by casting lots.
Mark 15:24- And they crucified Him. They also divided His garments by casting lots to decide what each of them would take
conclusion: The One who made Atonement for my sins completely left out PSA and not once mentioned it or hinted at it in any way, shape or form. He said His death was a substitution, ransom, Passover, sacrifice and for forgiveness of sins. and There was no wrath from the Father to the Son. The anger, wrath, vengeance, retribution as the Apostles taught in Acts and Jesus taught in the gospels came from evil and wicked men.
hope this helps !!!
TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY
Well-known member
Yes i know my friend . the punishment and wrath Jesus suffered
was not due to his fault by for our faults .
Those who put him to death were at fault , But this had to happen for our sakes .
JESUS knew the cup HE had to drink of my friend . Yes the wrath and etc came from men . Allowed by GOD .
101G
Well-known member
GINOLJC, to all
Pete, your first ERROR of the day. Jesus is God in his IMAGE that was to come, meaning in flesh as, as, as, as, or tghe LIKE$NESS as a man.... not some GOD/man... a man. listen carefully. Philippians 2:7 "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:"
ATTENTION, ATTENTION, pete, if he took "on" the form/flesh, then he's not the form..... Hello?
pete, pete, you need to restrain yourself from running off on endless tangent that has no end but leads to destruction for you. the apostles taught no such thing. see how you added that none-sense. you said, "the apostle taught Jesus was a God-Man". there is no such thing.
and another thing, pete ,are you saying Jesus is a God .... and Man?
SECOND ERROR of the day. "Peter taught .... God did miracles “by Himself?” at least you're HALF RIGHT, but being half right is worst than a FULL WRONG, for it is deceptive. so, (NO, NO, NO, God, who is JESUS, the SHARED Spirit is in that flesh did miracles). let's see if what you said is true, or half true.
LET'S READ the TEXT..... John 2:18 "Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?" John 2:19 "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." (Who will raise up his temple/body?). John 2:20 "Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?" John 2:21 "But he spake of the temple of his body." STOP RIGHT HERE, you said Peter taught, "that God did miracles “by Himself.” so, according to John 2:19 here the Lord Jesus said that "HE" would raise up his own body. now either the Lord Jesus is lying, (God forbid), or Peter is also Lying, (and he is Not), the only answer left then is "Jesus is God", and you are Lying. listen carefully, remember the next verse. John 2:22 "When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said." and was not Peter one of the Lord Jesus disciples .... who remembered? yes.
and that same disciple that witness what the Lord Jesus told those Jews concerning the Temple/his Body, is the same disciple that said this on Pentecost. LISTEN CAREFULLY. Acts 4:10 "Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole."
but the scriptures said the disciples, (including Peter REMEMBERED what the Lord Jesus told them, (the Jews) concerning the temple/his body being raised. LISTEN, John 2:22 "When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said." AND "JESUS" SAID, "John 2:19 "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." Jesus said, "I", "I", "I", and Peter, one of the disciples who remembered said, "God", "God", "God", raised up the Body of Jesus. and the scriptures said he REMEMBERED.
NOW, if his disciples, (including Peter) REMEMBERED what the Lord Jesus said about HIMFELF, JESUS, Rasing up his own body/temple, why in the world did Peter say God raised up Jesus body? ........ unless.... Peter knew that JESUS is GOD. ..... (smile)... Hello. because he REMEMBERED what the Lord Jesus said.
so again, either Jesus, (who is God ... in flesh) is lying, and his disciple Peter also... (God forbid). then it is you pete that is LYING, (adding to God word... a half truth, which is a full lie in disguise). for we have the word of God before us, can you re-write this one?
we suggest you put down your RE-WRITTING pen down. if has gotten you into too much trouble.
101G.
I didn't say anything about his will. So you're going to stick with your "self-interests" slandering of Jesus. Typical heretic. Always degradating Jesus in every way possible.
TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY
Well-known member
Glory in the name of Lord Jesus christ
or God in name of Lord Jesus christ . is that what GINOLJC means . just a guess .
101G
Well-known member
it do, you CANNOT ..... "BELIEVE", just as the scripture states, John 14:1 "Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me." see pete, the verse didn't say, "BELIEVE" .... ALSO in me, it said BELIEVE ... "IN" ME. is not the Lord Jesus "EQUAL WITH" God?" scripture, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:" EQUAL ...... WITH, yes, the same ONE PERSON, for there is ONLY ..... "ONE" ..... God. pete, that's basic Christianity,
101G.
Peterlag
Well-known member
Philippians 2:6 is not a teaching on the trinity or that we should confess or believe that Jesus is God. From the Septuagint and their other writings, the Jews were familiar with morphē referring to the outward appearance, including the form of men and idols. To the Greeks, it also referred to the outward appearance, including the changing outward appearance of their gods and the form of statues. The only other New Testament use of morphē outside Philippians is in Mark, and there it refers to the outward appearance. Also, the words related to morphē clearly refer to an outward manifestation or appearance. The word morphē refers to an outward appearance or manifestation. Jesus Christ was in the outward appearance of God, so much so that he said, “He who has seen me has seen the Father.” Christ always did the Father’s will, and perfectly represented his Father in every way.
Peterlag
Well-known member
You probably mean 1 John 4:2 and not 2 John 4:2. And I see no word in that verse that says divine or divine essence. A guy on another site said to me last night that the trinity folks can't show where the Apostles taught the trinity. So the folks on these sites are teaching the trinity. This comes to mind when I see you adding words that are not in the Bible. None of these words are in 1 John 4:2
1.) Divine
2.) Mere Man
3.) Common Man
4.) Divine Essence
We cannot approach the Bible with wisdom and “reason together” if we must invent and use non-biblical phrases to support our theology. The Bible calls Jesus the “Son” of God for the simple reason that he had a beginning.
Peterlag
Well-known member
Jesus has a God...
in contrast to “God” who alone is God and does not have a God. Jesus spoke about his God after the resurrection to Mary Magdalene, saying “…I ascend to my Father and your Father, and my God and your God” (John 20:17). Jesus still called God “my God” after his ascension into heaven when he was standing at the right hand of God.
There are also verses in the New Testament that clearly speak of “God” being the “God” of Jesus Christ. Romans 15:6 says “...you can, with one mouth, glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.” 2 Corinthians 1:3,Ephesians 1:3, and 1 Peter 1:3 all say “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.” So the “one God and Father” (Ephesians 4:6) is the God of Jesus Christ. The “one God” of the Bible never says He has a God because He is God, the Father, the Creator, “the Most High God” and He has no equals. Jesus is not “God” because he's a man, the last Adam, the created Son of God, and the God of Jesus is God the Father.
In John 5:44 Jesus called the Father “the only God” and The New American Standard Bible goes so far as to translate it as “the one and only God.” The straightforward reading of this verse is that Jesus did not think of himself as God. Jesus prayed to God on the night he was arrested that people would “know you, the only true God” (John 17:3). It seems disingenuous or at least confusing that Jesus would refer to his Father as “the only true God” if he knew that both he and “the Holy Spirit” were also “Persons” in a triune God and that the Father shared His position as “God” with them. It seems much more likely that Jesus spoke the simple truth when he called his Father “the only true God."
in contrast to “God” who alone is God and does not have a God. Jesus spoke about his God after the resurrection to Mary Magdalene, saying “…I ascend to my Father and your Father, and my God and your God” (John 20:17). Jesus still called God “my God” after his ascension into heaven when he was standing at the right hand of God.
There are also verses in the New Testament that clearly speak of “God” being the “God” of Jesus Christ. Romans 15:6 says “...you can, with one mouth, glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.” 2 Corinthians 1:3,Ephesians 1:3, and 1 Peter 1:3 all say “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.” So the “one God and Father” (Ephesians 4:6) is the God of Jesus Christ. The “one God” of the Bible never says He has a God because He is God, the Father, the Creator, “the Most High God” and He has no equals. Jesus is not “God” because he's a man, the last Adam, the created Son of God, and the God of Jesus is God the Father.
In John 5:44 Jesus called the Father “the only God” and The New American Standard Bible goes so far as to translate it as “the one and only God.” The straightforward reading of this verse is that Jesus did not think of himself as God. Jesus prayed to God on the night he was arrested that people would “know you, the only true God” (John 17:3). It seems disingenuous or at least confusing that Jesus would refer to his Father as “the only true God” if he knew that both he and “the Holy Spirit” were also “Persons” in a triune God and that the Father shared His position as “God” with them. It seems much more likely that Jesus spoke the simple truth when he called his Father “the only true God."
Communication happens by use of words. The biblical phrases happen to be words that translators used. Your philosophical preference for so-called "biblical phrases" is of course your choice of pursuit. But that does not hamper us other people from using normal English words. I'm sorry if communication is a difficult concept for you.
Your issue with him as the Son of God may address a limitation of the coverage or wording of the Trinitarian doctrine rather than a failure of it. I'm not able to pursue that now, but that does not decrease his essence of his Father. Until you disprove the verses that point to Christ's divinity, your Unitarian arguments are useless. Your simple "proof" texts do not cancel out the divinity of Christ in the Godhead.
Runningman
Well-known member
A will different than God's falls into the category of self-interests. How else do you think Jesus was tempted? Temptation refers to the things that someone wants. Jesus was indeed tempted. Here let's look at it. Let me know if you don't like it.I didn't say anything about his will. So you're going to stick with your "self-interests" slandering of Jesus. Typical heretic. Always degradating Jesus in every way possible.
Matthew 4 NIV
1Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”
4Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.
5Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6“If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:
“ ‘He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’
7Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’
8Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9“All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”
10Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.
11Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.
101G
Well-known member
that's only an EXCUSE. but, a question, since you're stuck on God's OUTWARD appearance, "what is God OUTWARD "Appearance?" remember God is a "Spirit, John 4:24, which is his NATURE. so what is God's Nature here in Philippians 2:6 that that Christ is "EQUAL with GOD, "Who, being in the form of God, (Spirit), thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"
so pete, tell us what is the OUTWARD NATURE of God here in Philippians 2:6.... and keep in mind "form"/the NATURE of God..... ok.
your answer please.
101G.
