Thomas... My Lord and my God

[Doug Brents]

Yeah I must have missed it. Now what verse exactly in John (which is not in the Epistles that I'm an expert in) says that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God.

So you have memorized the epistles, but not the Gospels? Hmm. Got the cart before the horse, as it were, hmm?

You cannot pour new wine into a cup that is already full. And you are already a self-professed "expert". But what are you an "expert" in? It certainly isn't the Scripture of the Lord God.

 

[Doug Brents]

Worshipping humans as God is idolatry in Scripture. Do you agree?

Worshiping anything that is not God is idolatry. But if what, or who, you worship really is God, then it is not idolatry. The catholics worship a rosery, and Mary, and "saints"; these are idols. Many people worship money, or their children, or their hobbies, or other "things"; these are idols. Jesus is God; Jesus is NOT an idol.

I will agree Jesus is one of the elohim who are the sons of the Most High, but is not the Most High. Jesus is never called the Most High in the Bible. Different senses of god and deity in Scripture. Jesus isn't God Almighty nor ever called that either. Never called YHWH, the God of Abraham, the I AM, Lord of Hosts, Lord of heaven and earth, etc.

You, like pete, have not read the Scripture of God carefully enough, even though he claims to be an "expert" in it. Jesus is called the "I AM" several times. He is also called Lord of Hosts, Everlasting Father, Lord of Lords, God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, etc.

Your theory is nonsense. God emptied himself of God while he was still God? This is not an "orthodox Trinitarian" thought. One of the cardinal sins in Trinitarianism is dividing the essence. If you do that, you break the system.

God the Son (Jesus) did not empty Himself of His deity. He was still God. He emptied Himself of His power, knowledge, glory, and self-direction. He still had the authority of God (He forgave sin by His own authority, a power only allotted to God). But He did not know anything that the Holy Spirit did not reveal to Him, nor did He do anything by His own power, but the Holy Spirit worked through Him just as He worked through the Apostles.

It doesn't contradict scripture nor the Greek. Do you still not believe the word order of John 10:36 places the "the" definite article before God and not son? This is tantamount to Internet foot stomping. Just go with what's true and don't make a big stink about it. The Bible says what it says. Deal with it.

Matthew 11
21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

God doesn't have a human nature in the Bible.

Jesus is a human with a divine nature like so many others. You have no idea who Jesus is.

2 Peter 1
4Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

We can indeed be partakers of the divine nature. But Jesus was not a partaker of it; He was the originator of it. Jesus was God who came down in the form of a man.

The Father being the only true God is a major Biblical doctrine. Why do I keep doing your homework for you. Did you know the Father is YHWH?

As is Jesus.

Already went over these and proved they don't say what you say they do. Do we need to go through them again? Where are you refutes against Scripture? Cat got your tongue already?

You have given your perverted interpretation of them. But your perversion is not Truth. These passages do indeed say that Jesus is God in the flesh. And until you admit that, we have nothing more to talk about.

Isn't this the pot calling the kettle black? You have been here on your soap box for days preaching falsehoods about a trinity and you're accusing the Christians of lying about what Jesus said regarding the Father's exclusive deity.

Nope. True Christ followers confess the deity of Jesus, just as He claimed to be.

 

[Runningman]

Worshiping anything that is not God is idolatry. But if what, or who, you worship really is God, then it is not idolatry. The catholics worship a rosery, and Mary, and "saints"; these are idols. Many people worship money, or their children, or their hobbies, or other "things"; these are idols. Jesus is God; Jesus is NOT an idol.

The worship of Jesus as God is not sanctioned, taught, or commanded in the Bible. On the matter of worship, the one clear directive regarding who to worship is the Father in John 4:23,24. Furthermore, there are no examples of anyone worshipping Jesus in the sense of him being God, but all contexts refer to him being worshipped in the context of being the son of God. It isn't they they are bowing him because he's God. Yes, worshipping Jesus as God is idolatry.

You, like pete, have not read the Scripture of God carefully enough, even though he claims to be an "expert" in it. Jesus is called the "I AM" several times. He is also called Lord of Hosts, Everlasting Father, Lord of Lords, God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, etc.

Peter is brilliant and you really should take to heart more of what he says.

As far as Jesus being called the I am, Lord of Hosts, everlasting Father, God of Abraham, etc this is way off base. Ever read Acts 3:13? It says Jesus is the son or servant of the God of Abraham. Jesus taught that he and the others are sons of the Most High in John 10:34-36, . Daniel also describes Jesus and the other saints as sons of the Most High. Since Jesus isn't the God of Abraham, then he isn't the I AM, YHWH, etc. Read Exodus 3:14,15, Psalm 2:7, and Psalm 110:1.

God the Son (Jesus) did not empty Himself of His deity. He was still God. He emptied Himself of His power, knowledge, glory, and self-direction. He still had the authority of God (He forgave sin by His own authority, a power only allotted to God). But He did not know anything that the Holy Spirit did not reveal to Him, nor did He do anything by His own power, but the Holy Spirit worked through Him just as He worked through the Apostles.

This is just pure theology, meaning it isn't Scripture. I understand you must fill in the gaps to explain why you believe Jesus is who you say he is, but this will only cause eternal debate. The Bible does not tell the story you just did.

We can indeed be partakers of the divine nature. But Jesus was not a partaker of it; He was the originator of it. Jesus was God who came down in the form of a man.

Wow. You're the first Trin who has actually agreed with this and I have talked to a lot of you guys! I am beginning to like you.

As is Jesus.

You have given your perverted interpretation of them. But your perversion is not Truth. These passages do indeed say that Jesus is God in the flesh. And until you admit that, we have nothing more to talk about.

Nope. True Christ followers confess the deity of Jesus, just as He claimed to be.

No thanks. I will not worship a human as God because God told everyone that's a sin in the Bible. Our God doesn't perpetuate sin. Furthermore the Bible says God is not a man in Numbers 23:19, Hosea 11:9, and several other places.

We have nothing more to talk about until you admit this.

 

[Doug Brents]

The worship of Jesus as God is not sanctioned, taught, or commanded in the Bible.

So says you. But Scripture says differently. I'll trust Scripture over you every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

On the matter of worship, the one clear directive regarding who to worship is the Father in John 4:23,24. Furthermore, there are no examples of anyone worshipping Jesus in the sense of him being God, but all contexts refer to him being worshipped in the context of being the son of God. It isn't they they are bowing him because he's God. Yes, worshipping Jesus as God is idolatry.

Worshiping anything other than God is idolatry. And Jesus is worshiped as God in many places in Scripture.

As far as Jesus being called the I am, Lord of Hosts, everlasting Father, God of Abraham, etc this is way off base.

Isa 9:6-7 - "For a Child will be born to us, a Son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace
On the throne of David and over his kingdom,
To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness
From then on and forevermore.
The zeal of the Lord of armies will accomplish this."
This is a direct reference to Jesus, which is confirmed in references to this verse in:
Luke 2:11
Matt 1:23
1 John 5:20
Eph 2:14-18
Heb 1:8
Luke 1:35
Heb 7:2-3

Wow. You're the first Trin who has actually agreed with this and I have talked to a lot of you guys! I am beginning to like you.

You are taking this fact, that we will also partake of the divine nature, to mean that Jesus is not God. But your conclusion is false. We are able to partake of the divine nature because God partook in our physical nature and overcame it. He then gives to us His divine nature in exchange for our sinful nature. He cannot give what He does not posses.

No thanks. I will not worship a human as God because God told everyone that's a sin in the Bible. Our God doesn't perpetuate sin. Furthermore the Bible says God is not a man in Numbers 23:19, Hosea 11:9, and several other places.

We have nothing more to talk about until you admit this.

Then have fun living in your blasphemous defiance of God.

 

[Peterlag]

So you have memorized the epistles, but not the Gospels? Hmm. Got the cart before the horse, as it were, hmm?

You cannot pour new wine into a cup that is already full. And you are already a self-professed "expert". But what are you an "expert" in? It certainly isn't the Scripture of the Lord God.

I'm an expert in what we have in Christ which is outlined in the Epistles and not the Gospels because in the Gospels Christ had not yet made the new birth available until Acts chapter two and that's what Paul lays out in the Epistles. So your cart before the horse makes no sense.

 

[Peterlag]

It doesn't cause any problems for me. Jesus Himself said that He would raise Himself from the dead after three days, which is what He did thus proving He is God.

What do I do with these verses that say God raised Jesus from the dead... Acts 2:32; 4:10; 5:30; Rom. 10:9; 1 Cor. 6:14; Gal. 1:1; 1 Thess. 1:9-10?

 

[Doug Brents]

I'm an expert in what we have in Christ which is outlined in the Epistles and not the Gospels because in the Gospels Christ had not yet made the new birth available until Acts chapter two and that's what Paul lays out in the Epistles. So your cart before the horse makes no sense.

Without Christ and Him crucified, our faith is meaningless (1 Cor 15). If you don't have the Christ, and Him crucified (the Gospel), then the epistles are meaningless.

 

[Doug Brents]

What do I do with these verses that say God raised Jesus from the dead... Acts 2:32; 4:10; 5:30; Rom. 10:9; 1 Cor. 6:14; Gal. 1:1; 1 Thess. 1:9-10?

You accept that they agree that Jesus is God.

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

crickets

Why is that there crickets i sees .
Why yes , yes it is . and they be a chirping indeed .

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

So you have memorized the epistles, but not the Gospels? Hmm. Got the cart before the horse, as it were, hmm?

You cannot pour new wine into a cup that is already full. And you are already a self-professed "expert". But what are you an "expert" in? It certainly isn't the Scripture of the Lord God.

Now you did ask a real good questoin to that man . OH he is an expert indeed my friend .
And one must give credit where credit is due , BUT ITS NOT IN THE SCRIPTURES
its in what men taught him about some scriptures . many experts always go about
and yet when tested with even the SIMPLIEST of scrips , cannot see , cannot hear and surely cannot discern .

 

[Peterlag]

You accept that they agree that Jesus is God.

Something that is openly admitted by theologians that is not known by many Christians is that the doctrine of the Trinity is not stated in the Bible, but is actually “built” by piecing together statements that are said to support it. The word “Trinity” is not in the Bible, and that is supporting evidence that the doctrine is unbiblical, which may be why Trinitarians differ, sometimes greatly in their definitions of the Trinity. If there is a trinity then why not just come out and say it? Why do we have to jump all over the Bible cutting and pasting pieces of words that are scattered all over the Bible? Why not just teach it? I know enough about how the Bible is written in the New Testament and in the Gospels to know if there was a trinity it would have been taught. The Gospels would have clearly said...

Verily, verily I say unto you that I am Jesus and I'm also God.

The Epistles would have writings like...

Yay, I Paul do testify that Jesus who is God came down from heaven to be a man for us. And we do know and testify that this same Jesus who you crucified is God. And so let us bow our knee to the one and only true God-Man Jesus Christ.

And yet there's nothing like that anywhere. Not in the Old or New Testament. Not even one complete verse like that.

 

[Peterlag]

Without Christ and Him crucified, our faith is meaningless (1 Cor 15). If you don't have the Christ, and Him crucified (the Gospel), then the epistles are meaningless.

When you become advanced you have moved beyond the death of Jesus which is for new people.

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

When you become advanced you have moved beyond the death of Jesus which is for new people.

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

well try telling that to this all inclusive diverse common ground interfaith seeking generation .
CAUSE THEY DARN SURE DONT PREACH CHRIST and HIM crucified .
THEY preach a love god that has made the road very very broad and accepts sins and EVEN UNBELIEF .
INTERFIATH IS OF ANTI CHRIST peterlag , and it will lead to the SOLUTION that will cause many lambs to BLEED .
Cause friend , SHEEP DONT HEED A LIE and wont conform and thus we gonna be seen as dangerous , as haters .
SO dont kiss the golden calf of intefiath , KISS THE SON .

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

When you become advanced you have moved beyond the death of Jesus which is for new people.

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

Not saying you , but its rather odd that i have seen that saying moving beyond the death of JESUS
and yet what they NOW LIVE FOR is STILL SIN . guess they aint moved beyond squat .
Cause that aint living at all , its death . Many claim to be great teachers
and often use some of pauls own words to move the church not into true growth , THOUGH IT CLIAMS TO DO SO ,
but rather into confusion , delusion , calling good evil and evil good . We bess learn our bibles
for our own selves .

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

So you have memorized the epistles, but not the Gospels? Hmm. Got the cart before the horse, as it were, hmm?

You cannot pour new wine into a cup that is already full. And you are already a self-professed "expert". But what are you an "expert" in? It certainly isn't the Scripture of the Lord God.

yet many claim to be full . full of the Spirit , yet upon examination of what they teach
i am very fearful they only full , but NOT OF THE SPIRIT at all . FULL of THEMSELVES and their own mens doctrines .

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

When you become advanced you have moved beyond the death of Jesus which is for new people.

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

When a man calls GOD a liar that will not bode well for any who do such a thing . repentance time .
I bet everyone here knows GOD is the alpha and omega , the first and the last .
YET WHY COME when JESUS SAID IT do so many then say , YOU A LIAR , you a liar , you a liar,
your words are false . You make a false claim . CAUSE You do realize that is what YOU BE A DOING . pretty scary for your sake my friend .

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

but then i guess why that is why ol peter dont read revelation
and just now at best skims over parts of the letters . this is not going to end well my friend . Lest of course one repents .

 

[Doug Brents]

When you become advanced you have moved beyond the death of Jesus which is for new people.

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

ROTFLMBO - I pray that God open your heart. We can NEVER move beyond the foundation that is Christ Jesus. HE IS THE ROCK!!!

 

[Peterlag]

ROTFLMBO - I pray that God open your heart. We can NEVER move beyond the foundation that is Christ Jesus. HE IS THE ROCK!!!

1 Corinthians 2:4
And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

 

[Doug Brents]

1 Corinthians 2:4
And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

and?