Thomas... My Lord and my God

Doug Brents said:
Jesus will return in the same way He left (Acts 1:11). So when He went from Earth to Heaven, He went with (not on) the clouds, and that is how He arrived in Heaven (Dan 7). When He returns, He will come back on (not with) the clouds (Matt 24). These are two different events. Both future to the people who wrote of them, but one of them is past to us today.
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Not the same event. The placement of the sitting at the right hand of God is key to distinguishing the difference between Jesus being take up to heaven without clouds (Acts 1:9) and being taken to heaven and then obeying God's orders to sit at His right hand (Mark 16:19) So yeah the "coming on the clouds" only refers to Daniel 7 which is when Jesus returns. There is no other correlation between the prophecy of Daniel 7 and the future return of Christ. You're also mixing words "coming" and "going" which don't have the same sort of connotation to them.
 
Runningman said:
Jesus said he would be "coming" (to them) not "going" (away from them) on the clouds of heaven after he had already sat down at the right hand of God. Jesus being taken to heaven and coming on the clouds when he returns isn't the same event. See, Jesus quoted it at his trial. It's future.

Mark 14
62“I am,” said Jesus, “and you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power and coming with the clouds of heaven.”
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See how easy it is to understand when we believe the words of Christ!!!
 
We cannot approach the Bible with wisdom and “reason together” if we must invent and use non-biblical phrases to support our theology. The Bible calls Jesus the “Son” of God for the simple reason that he had a beginning. Jesus had been part of God’s plan since the foundation of the world, but he began his actual life when God “fathered” him and Mary conceived him in her womb.

There are many verses where Jesus and God are portrayed as two separate beings and there are too many examples to list, but just to mention a few we can look at when Jesus told the rich young ruler that he was not good, but “God” was good. Also Jesus grew in favor with “God” and with men, and he told his disciples “Believe in God; believe also in me."
 
Jesus wasn’t denying He was good—He was asking the ruler to think deeper. If only God is good, and Jesus is good, then Jesus must be God. Also, as the God-man, He could grow in human experience while remaining divine. When He said “Believe in God, believe also in Me,” He put Himself on equal footing with God, something no mere man or prophet could rightly do.
 
Quintus5 said:
Jesus wasn’t denying He was good—He was asking the ruler to think deeper. If only God is good, and Jesus is good, then Jesus must be God. Also, as the God-man, He could grow in human experience while remaining divine. When He said “Believe in God, believe also in Me,” He put Himself on equal footing with God, something no mere man or prophet could rightly do.
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Jesus couldn't have been any clearer that he was saying one can believe in God without believing in Jesus.
 
There's no such creature in all of Scripture known as the "Word" who is God. No examples of the "Word" being God in the Old Testament or the New Testament. My advice to you is don't just camp out in John 1:1 and pretend like it stands alone while ignoring the rest of the Bible.

cc: @Runningman
 
Peterlag said:
We cannot approach the Bible with wisdom and “reason together” if we must invent and use non-biblical phrases to support our theology. The Bible calls Jesus the “Son” of God for the simple reason that he had a beginning. Jesus had been part of God’s plan since the foundation of the world, but he began his actual life when God “fathered” him and Mary conceived him in her womb.

There are many verses where Jesus and God are portrayed as two separate beings and there are too many examples to list, but just to mention a few we can look at when Jesus told the rich young ruler that he was not good, but “God” was good. Also Jesus grew in favor with “God” and with men, and he told his disciples “Believe in God; believe also in me."
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Well said.
 
Peterlag said:
There's no such creature in all of Scripture known as the "Word" who is God. No examples of the "Word" being God in the Old Testament or the New Testament. My advice to you is don't just camp out in John 1:1 and pretend like it stands alone while ignoring the rest of the Bible.

cc: @Runningman
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I said that because they tend to just camp out in John 1:1 as if it is foundational, but it is actually one of the most minority kind of statements in the Bible. The only one who ever spoke of God's words like that was John. Matthew, Mark, Luke, Paul, and the whole lot never uttered a peep about such things.
 
Runningman said:
I said that because they tend to just camp out in John 1:1 as if it is foundational, but it is actually one of the most minority kind of statements in the Bible. The only one who ever spoke of God's words like that was John. Matthew, Mark, Luke, Paul, and the whole lot never uttered a peep about such things.
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Folks on here tell me directly that I'm a heretic and ignorant a lot. When I ask if they are brain dead it's edited by management. Does that seem fair?
 
Peterlag said:
Folks on here tell me directly that I'm a heretic and ignorant a lot. When I ask if they are brain dead it's edited by management. Does that seem fair?
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No it's not fair, but then again do you ever use the report button? I have only ever rarely did that when someone was actually saying something illegal or when a spambot sent me an advertisement to my inbox. Aside from that, I have let it be.
 
Runningman said:
No it's not fair, but then again do you ever use the report button? I have only ever rarely did that when someone was actually saying something illegal or when a spambot sent me an advertisement to my inbox. Aside from that, I have let it be.
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No I don't really care about what they call me. I just want fairness if I can get it. But now I never thought that somebody might be hitting a report button.
 
There's only one God...

All throughout their history the Jews fiercely defended the fact that there was only one God. Jesus himself tied the greatest commandment in the Law together with there being only one God when an expert in Old Testament law asked him which of the commandments was the most important. Jesus said to him “The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord” (Mark 12:29-30).

1 Corinthians 8:4,6
...that there is none other God but one.

But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ,...
 
Peterlag said:
Here's how I see it. God created Adam with a body then gave him a soul and Adam then became a living creature. God then wanting to make man in His image so He then created spirit in Adam. That's the image of God... Spirit. Adam and Eve lost that spirit. Humans could not understand spiritual things and so Jesus had to speak to them in parables. Then after the resurrection Christ got the spirit back only for those who are Christian.
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You can see it any way you want to see it. But the truth does not change just because of how you see it.
When man sinned, he did not lose his spirit (the image of God). His spirit died, meaning it was separated from God. Consider a tree branch that is cut from a tree. It does not cease to be a tree branch just because it was cut off. And it does not cease to evidence signs of life, even though it has been cut off from the source of its life. It appears alive, even though it is already dead and will eventually wither.

Scripture says that when we are made new in Christ our spirit is resurrected. In other words, our spirit is reconnected to God; the source of life. And then He gives us His Spirit in addition to our own reborn spirit.
 
Doug Brents said:
You can see it any way you want to see it. But the truth does not change just because of how you see it.
When man sinned, he did not lose his spirit (the image of God). His spirit died, meaning it was separated from God. Consider a tree branch that is cut from a tree. It does not cease to be a tree branch just because it was cut off. And it does not cease to evidence signs of life, even though it has been cut off from the source of its life. It appears alive, even though it is already dead and will eventually wither.

Scripture says that when we are made new in Christ our spirit is resurrected. In other words, our spirit is reconnected to God; the source of life. And then He gives us His Spirit in addition to our own reborn spirit.
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What verse says when we are made new in Christ our spirit is resurrected?
 
Doug Brents said:
Rom 6:1-4, Col 2:11-14, Eph 2:5, John 11:25-26, And there are many more.
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Here's Romans 6:1-4. Show me what verse says when we are made new in Christ our spirit is resurrected?

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
 
Fred said:
Next time answer the question properly.
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I did answer the question properly. But you did not like the answer when I said...

Jesus was made the Lord for the New Testament when God made him both Lord and Christ. And God is still translated as Lord in some places as are men.

Because you want to play little word games by finding something like a verse or two where God is referred to as the Lord in the New Testament mostly because it's a quote from the Old testament and then you want to say see Jesus is God.
 

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