Thomas... My Lord and my God
- Thread starter Peterlag
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Doug Brents
Active Member
Forgive me. I didn't review the passage before I posted it. Continue on to verses 5-7.
Peterlag
Active Member
Here's Romans 6:5-7. Show me what verse says when we are made new in Christ our spirit is resurrected?
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Peterlag
Active Member
You got nothing.
Keep telling yourself that.
Runningman
Active Member
Yeah it happens. There is someone who regularly reports me on a different forum every time I attempt to interpret his writings. Imagine having a Bible discussion, you reply, but it turns out the other person baited you and switched into victimized "Christian" mode with a persecution complex. I mean, sometimes you just gotta roll with it and pray for them to grow thicker skin.
here's the link on the virgin birth topic: #VirginBirthSignificance
Jesus can be called God's Son by virtue of the virgin birth where God's Spirit overshadowed Mary. The virgin birth is senseless without the divinity of Christ. If there were not something more than humans bearing humans, then it would have been Joseph as the father of Jesus.
Peterlag
Active Member
I'm only here to help if I can. I count them being nasty to me as a sign I'm correct on how I see the Scriptures. The majority has never been right at anytime in history on the subject of the Scriptures. When I was younger I used to say to myself if I'm following the larger group on a biblical subject then I will probably be following the wrong side. The fools use that against me. They say we follow what most of the world does and you follow the smaller group.
Doug Brents
Active Member
Was Jesus separated from the Father because of our sin that was placed upon Him on the cross? Yes.
That means His spirit died on the cross just as our spirit dies when we sin.
Was Jesus resurrected from the dead, both physically and spiritually, by the Holy Spirit? Yes.
And as verse 5 here says, our spirit is resurrected by the same Holy Spirit in the same manner that Jesus was resurrected.
Runningman
Active Member
Don't let them give you the wrong idea. There are literally maybe 12 trinitarians who galavant the Internet on every forum they can find and argue against God and insult people everday day. It may be tempting to think they are all like that, but they aren't. There are some genuine truth-seekers in their organization who mean well and will readily believe what the Bible says about God. It's rewarding on a personal and spiritual level to see trinitarians convert to Christianity when they finally see that there is no God but the Father. Many of them are shocked that they have read the Bible a 100 times but never really noticed that there isn't a trinity to begin with.
Younger people are easier to talk to about this subject and have fewer obstacles to overcome. I used to lead a ministry of prayer and Bible study. Almost all of them eventually formed their own ministries and became active in evangelism as well. Unitarianism is very easy to understand, is Biblical, and easy to evangelize with. People can understand that Jesus is a man who God empowered and annointed, but God being a man doesn't make any sense either from a common sense perspective or a Biblical perspective.
Peterlag
Active Member
Jesus was never separated from God. That's number one.
The spirit of Jesus never died. That's number two.
God who is Holy and who is Spirit raised Jesus from the dead. That's number three.
And for number four I have no idea where it's written that our spirit is resurrected by God who is Holy and who is Spirit.
Peterlag
Active Member
Folks keep telling me Genesis 1:1 is Plural so Jesus must be God.
The word elohim is always found in the plural form and is often called a uniplural noun. A uniplural noun is a word that appears in the plural form but is used for singular and plural subjects alike. “Deer” and “fish” are examples of uniplural nouns in English. As with many Hebrew words, elohim carries more than one definition. When it is being used in a plural sense, it refers to “gods” or “men with authority.” When it is used in its singular sense, it can refer to “God” or “a god” or “a man with authority, such as a judge.” The Hebrew lexicon by Brown, Driver, and Briggs is considered to be one of the best available and it has as its first usage for elohim: “rulers, judges, either as divine representatives at sacred places or as reflecting divine majesty and power, divine ones, superhuman beings including God and angels, gods.I'm not sure how the one word controls anything when the actual distinctions are the mention of the Spirit of God in v 2 and the plural use in v26. The elaboration on the word elohim then has, at best, a lesser role than these other two points. Then the worst usage is "rulers, judges" but we know it is not multiple gods nor angels behind creation. Most importantly the wording of Gen 1:2,26 allow for (and even favors) the later revelation of the Triune essence of God.
The other options offered for the plurals -- such as plural of majesty or God's court -- could be considered but those seem weak with the possibility that such wording may not be used again in the OT about God. The unitarian however denies later revelation and thus cannot allow scripture to testify to Jesus as the author of life and as the one through whom the world was made.
Doug Brents
Active Member
Every single word of that post is wrong.
Peterlag
Active Member
Statement that are found nowhere in Scripture...
1.) The spirit of Jesus died.
2.) Our spirit is resurrected by God.
3.) Jesus was separated from the Father because of our sin.
Doug Brents
Active Member
This shows your ignorance of Scripture. Death is a separation from that which gives life. The spirit gives life to the body (James 2:26), so physical death is the separation of the spirit from the body. Spiritual death is the separation of the spirit from God, and is the result of sin (Rom 6:23). Jesus became sin for us (2 Cor 5:21). So Jesus was spiritually separated from the Father when He hung on the cross. The Holy Spirit then resurrected Him (Rom 6:1-11, Col 2:11-14), reuniting Him with the Father.
Just as Jesus was resurrected by the Spirit, our spirit is likewise resurrected by the Spirit when we are baptized into Christ (Rom 6:1-11, Col 2:11-14).
Our sin deserves death (Rom 6:23). Jesus died the death that we deserve so that He could give us the righteousness that He deserves (1 Pet 2:24, 1 Pet 3:18, 2 Cor 5:21). In order for Him to give us His righteousness, He had to have suffered the full penalty for our sin: complete separation from the Father.
Peterlag
Active Member
The spirit does not give life to the body. The souls does and I suspect you do not know the difference between the soul and the spirit of God. And I already know you have some pretty whacked out ideas about the difference between God who is a Spirit and his gift of the spirit in all Christians. My knowledge of the Scripture is not ignorant. It's just over your head.
Doug Brents
Active Member
James 2:26 - "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead."
[the] spirit
πνεύματος (pneumatos)
Noun - Genitive Neuter Singular
Strong's 4151: Wind, breath, spirit.
This is not the word for "soul". It is the word for "spirit"
From Luke 3:22
Holy
Ἅγιον (Hagion)
Adjective - Accusative Neuter Singular
Strong's 40: Set apart by (or for) God, holy, sacred. From hagos; sacred.
Spirit
Πνεῦμα (Pneuma)
Noun - Accusative Neuter Singular
Strong's 4151: Wind, breath, spirit.
Yes, it is the spirit which gives life to the body. The spirit and the soul are very closely related, and so are often confused one with the other.
Your accusations and personal aspersions about me do you no credit, and add nothing to the conversation.
Yes, God is a Spirit. But that does not mean that He cannot put His Spirit (the Holy Spirit) within all Christ followers. Jesus said that is exactly what the Father would do once Jesus left Earth.
If your version of Scriptural "knowledge" is over my head, I don't want to stand up. Your "knowledge" excludes, ignores, reimagines, or corrupts so much of what Scripture actually says as to make it completely un-biblical.
Peterlag
Active Member
Unbelievers don't have the spirit of God. Are they all dead? I just talked to one today who was still walking upright.
Doug Brents
Active Member
This is correct.
There is a similarity between physical death and spiritual death: both are a separation from the source of life, but they are not the same. You were talking to someone who was physically alive, but spiritually dead (as are the vast majority of humanity). One must be spiritually resurrected in Christ in order to be both physically and spiritually alive. If one dies physically while being spiritually dead, they go to Hell where they are eternally separated from God, the source of all life. If one dies physically while being spiritually alive, they go to Heaven to spend eternity with God.
Physical life and death are almost immaterial in Scripture, for the most part. It is spiritual death that is most often discussed, and it is spiritual death that is the most important.
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