praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Not true at all.
Abel was innocent. We know he was innocent because Abel was the first to shed innocent blood. God hates the shedding of innocent blood.
The Unitarian belief that Jesus is not God causes those who offer worship to the Father's Throne (where Jesus sits) to be guilty of idolatry.
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Not true at all.
Abel was innocent. We know he was innocent because Abel was the first to shed innocent blood. God hates the shedding of innocent blood.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
There is a Greek word for his condition. It is μωρός.
A phycologist names "Henry" referencing this word "coined" the English counterpart to describe an adult with the mental age of 7-10 years old. While a truly sad psychological condition found in adults. Many men today just refuse to grow up....
Runningman
Well-known member
You seem to correctly reject the doctrine of original sin then. There may yet be hope for you.
Peterlag
Well-known member
Romans 5:14
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression...
Thanks for the kind words. And yes, we are warned in the Bible about "many" deceivers who "Come in Christ's Name", who call Jesus Lord, Lord, that shall deceive many. Jesus said not to be like unto them.
Like the serpent in the garden, they quote "some" of God's Word to deceive others, while rejecting, or as Jesus said "omitting" God's Words which bring question to their worldly religious philosophy. This causes those who listen to them to believe things about God that are not true, AKA, "become deceived".
"Many" promote a philosophy that God placed impossible Laws on the necks of men who trusted Him, that HE lied to men by telling them they could keep His Laws and that they were good for men to walk in, then slaughtered them by the thousands when they couldn't obey. So they create a religion where they define clean and unclean, righteousness and unrighteousness, Holy and unholy, and they create an image of God in the likeness of a handsome long-haired man, then they create their own high days in worship of this image.
And the religion itself becomes their god, as they preserve, defend and promote their manmade religious traditions and doctrines which vary according to the name above the door of their manmade shrines of worship. And they compete against other religions for contributing members to fill the seats of their shrines of worship, without which their religious business could not survive. This religious system has been the dominate force in this world since the fall of the Tower of Babel.
I would respectfully disagree with you on this part. They sing in their synagogues and shrines of worship every week. They have TV shows watched by millions where they are dancing and singing and laugh unto the Lord. As long as you agree with their particular religious philosophy, they are happy and joyful and full of praise for you. But once you open their own Bible and through it expose a sin in them, like Jesus did the mainstream religion of His Time, that is when we see what is in their heart.
I believe religion itself is the greatest Spiritual danger men encounter in this world, based on the warning in Scripture. It is a religious tradition of this world to seek out a religious sect or business which suits us, and then adopt its philosophies and traditions, support it financially and defend and promote it to others, and there are many to choose from.
There is Islam, Jewish and Christian religions which profess to know the God of Abraham as "God", in my understanding. How many religious sects in Islam, 8? Which breaks down further into over 70 I believe? In Judaism there are 4 main sects which breaks down into several branches off of these as well I believe. I am not an expert in the specifics of all these different religions, only that they exist and there are many of them.
Christianity is divided in 3 main groups, which divides itself further into well over 20,000 different denominations and sects worldwide. Each one promoting their own religious traditions and doctrines as "The Way".
And astonishingly, they all have One thing in common, they all transgress God's Commandments by their own manmade religious traditions. I find this undeniable truth fascinating.
I don't believe this world's religious system is what the Jesus "of the bible" promoted, and certainly not what Paul promoted. I can love another without adopting his religion. Jesus said to love these hypocrites who sing and pray unto God in their manmade synagogues, but HE also said not to be like unto them.
I can Love God and "Seek HIS Righteousness", as His Son instructs, without adopting the religious traditions or philosophies of the religions of this world God placed me in, that HE warned me about.
In the Bible, the Jesus described therein was born into a religion whose religious leaders were children of the devil. For 30 years He lived in the heart of this religion in which God's Commandments were rejected over manmade doctrines, philosophies and traditions for centuries, by men who professed to know Him. And HE maintained His love and obedience to God, and for others, not by choosing or adopting the religious philosophies and traditions of man or as Paul calls them, "Rudiments of this world" which surrounded Him. But because HE rejected the religious tradition of man, and "lived by" instead, Every Word of God.
It was in this way, that HE achieved righteousness. And I too, if I believe Him, can also become righteous, if I walk as HE walked, this world's religious assertion to the contrary notwithstanding.
Truly the whole point of the Gospel as defined in the Holy Bible, in my understanding, is to prepare men for the Joy to come.
Luke 6: 20 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God. 21 Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye "shall" be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye "shall" laugh. 22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and "when they shall separate you from their company", and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake. 23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.
1 Peter 1: 5 Who are kept "by the power of God through faith" unto salvation ready to be revealed "in the last time". 6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: 7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory "at the appearing of Jesus Christ": 8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
I am joyful in my sufferings. I am happy to patiently wait for the end of such sufferings for the unspeakable Joy that awaits whose refuge is the Lord.
Although I love you, and the manner of your discourse with others, and look forward to many discussions in fellowship as we share our understanding of God and the Race HE has placed before us. I must also tell you that I am a purchased possession, given to the Lord's Christ "of the bible" and will not look for or to another Prophet or "Christ" for instruction. And I will not be adopting or promoting any of the philosophies or traditions of this world's religious sects or businesses as I have come to understand the spiritual danger in doing so. And I believe God will reveal in me, as HE has done throughout my journey, the traditions and doctrines of men that still exists within me, although I might not know of them now.
God bless you and your family my friend, and may HE lead us both into HIS Eternal Truth.
You're mixing up sin and death and making a mess of things. For example, when a fetus is aborted, what is it sinful of? Being conceived?
Then what did Abraham see that meant that Jesus was now a chronological age that no human could ever possibly reach?
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Abel's life was taken from him.
You need to realize that evil exists in this world but it is a culmination of man's own choices throughout the entirely of history. Our fathers willingly rejected God. Abel did not. Abel, pleased God. Yet, Abel's brother murdered him. He did not die apart from the actions of a another sinful man.
We are our brother's keeper. This is why I'm even engaging with you on this subject. It is our duty to our fellowman to try and be the "salt of the earth".
Mankind has repeatedly and GRADUALLY been influence by evil. Often from external sources not their own. Mankind is culpable for ONE ANOTHER.
This is lost in false teachings such as Total Depravity.
Runningman
Well-known member
You’re looking at it the wrong way again. In the past tense, Abraham saw Jesus’ day, yet Jesus’ day wasn’t in Abraham’s day. Jesus’ day was when he was a man. There was nothing but prophecy regarding the coming messiah before Abraham and Abraham died before he could receive the promised messiah. The matter about Jesus being before Abraham refers to him existing in prophecy, but that’s it. It wasn’t literal. You have been told this repeatedly.
Hebrews 11 (NIV)
13All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth.
Peterlag
Well-known member
You do not understand how the Scriptures are written. For example the word "flesh" often means not a christian in the context of Romans. You would say I'm mixing up flesh and blood with getting born again.
Peterlag
Well-known member
It makes no difference. He was still born under sin...
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
It makes no difference to you. It does make a difference. Good (Abel) was overcome by Evil (Cain)
Adam was created without Eternal Life. He was driven from the source of Eternal Life. He did not innately possess Eternal Life.
Eternal Life must be earned. Only Jesus Christ earned Eternal Life for humanity.
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
I agree. This is a brave and provocative reflection.
That’s beautiful. The beauty of God in your mind.
If we are born sinful because of flesh then what does that make Christ how was born with flesh?
Huh? When did I say that? I would have to read your comments on those subjects.
Peterlag
Well-known member
You can't understand the Bible because nobody ever taught you how to read it. And I see this when you take my words out of context and spin everything I write. I gave an example using the word flesh. You twisted that into I was taking about flesh. Read up a few post. I said... For example the word "flesh"
Thank God nobody taught me to read the Bible how you misread it.
I twisted your example about flesh into talking about flesh. You make perfect sense.
Let's talk about flesh. If we are automatically sinful because of our flesh then what does that make Jesus who also has flesh?
Runningman
Well-known member
I sense you are rejecting the original sin doctrine. One of the reasons for the original sin doctrine's development was so that they could say everyone is born with a predisposition toward sin while simultaneously excluding Jesus from the equation of possibly ever becoming a sinner because he is "God in the flesh" [sic]Thank God nobody taught me to read the Bible how you misread it.
I twisted your example about flesh into talking about flesh. You make perfect sense.
Let's talk about flesh. If we are automatically sinful because of our flesh then what does that make Jesus who also has flesh?
So by rejecting this doctrine, and I applaud your rare display of coherency, you actually lose a major point in being able to justify that Jesus is God. Jesus becomes another man who is descended genealogically from Adam. who grew up in the ways of righteousness because his Father taught him how to resist it, and wasn't inherently able to resist sin except for by his own choices to obey God. Thus, Jesus was tempted in all ways as we are, lured away by his own desires, and still didn't sin. Just like a regular human can do. Jesus did it, now we can do it too. Thus, sinless perfectionism is a possibility. Theosis/entire sanctification is attainable now in this life, in the flesh.
You have also shot a hole through the hypostatic union doctrine and proven that Jesus is not 100% man and 100% God, but is rather fallible, was mortal, and not God incarnate, but rather shared in the divine nature like anyone can. You are closer to believing what a real Christian does than I had originally thought.
How can flesh be sinful and sinless at the same time? Either it's sinful or it's not. That's why the Catholic immaculate conception idea came into being, to.protect Christ's sinless nature. Unfortunately for Catholics, two wrongs don't make a right. Thank goodness I'm not Catholic and an assessorary to that heresy.
So based on your warped logic, I can toss everything else you wrote out the window.
MTMattie
Well-known member
I do wish Frankie would talk on this rather then every religion has a way to God....
First.... It is in the Protestant Bible, The Peshitta and the Complete Jewish bible that the Holy Spirit came upone Mary
Now unless he had a way to inject into Mary I call that pretty immaculate.
FROM the CJB
“The Ruach HaKodesh will come over you,
the power of Ha‘Elyon will cover you.
Therefore the holy child born to you
will be called the Son of God.
Peterlag
Well-known member
I use the word "flesh" the way that it is used in the Bible. Jesus was never in the flesh the way that the Bible uses the word flesh. You have to understand how the Bible writes and stop comparing it to how you write.Thank God nobody taught me to read the Bible how you misread it.
I twisted your example about flesh into talking about flesh. You make perfect sense.
Let's talk about flesh. If we are automatically sinful because of our flesh then what does that make Jesus who also has flesh?
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, [who don't have spirit] but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; [because those with the flesh have no spirit] but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh [again because they have no spirit] cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, [are you going to say the Scriptures are wrong because you believe you are flesh and bone? The Bible does not use the word flesh the way you do] but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
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