The Unitarian belief that Jesus is not God causes those who offer worship to the Father's Throne (where Jesus sits) to be guilty of idolatry.

Peterlag said:
It's the Christ that I am fellowshipping with to the end that I am moving back and forth with him and thereby able to have a relationship with him. This is new to me because the concept is to not ask God for much. Also, and this is huge: I no longer try to get God or Jesus Christ to work with me or to get close to me. I now spend much of my time right inside the spirit as close as I can get right in their face. The Greek word menō translated "abide" often deals with being in him, which I'm very concerned about when it comes to walking in Christ, which I believe is the same as walking in the spirit. To be in him or to abide in him deals with remaining or continuing to be present. To dwell, live, and be within him to the end that we are operative in him by his divine influence and energy. My first red flag that started me looking into how to do this was when I realized it's the Catholics that teach we are sinners. They teach us to look at ourselves and our sin. I teach that we should look at Christ and to walk in his spirit.
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Do you pray to the Spirit?
 
Peterlag said:
I'm in him. In Christ. I'm in the spirit. I walk by the spirit. There's no such thing as a spirit to pray to or saints or Mary.
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I never mention saints or Mary
'
You are in a spirit which does not exist?

You do not pray to the Father or Jesus so

Are you saying you do not pray?
 
Peterlag said:
It's the Christ that I am fellowshipping with to the end that I am moving back and forth with him and thereby able to have a relationship with him. This is new to me because the concept is to not ask God for much. Also, and this is huge: I no longer try to get God or Jesus Christ to work with me or to get close to me. I now spend much of my time right inside the spirit as close as I can get right in their face. The Greek word menō translated "abide" often deals with being in him, which I'm very concerned about when it comes to walking in Christ, which I believe is the same as walking in the spirit. To be in him or to abide in him deals with remaining or continuing to be present. To dwell, live, and be within him to the end that we are operative in him by his divine influence and energy. My first red flag that started me looking into how to do this was when I realized it's the Catholics that teach we are sinners. They teach us to look at ourselves and our sin. I teach that we should look at Christ and to walk in his spirit.
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Fellowship with a mere man?
 
praise_yeshua said:
Got it. At least I think I do.

Modern Catholics do not teaching what is often referenced as "Total Depravity". Such teachings were so engrained in some old Latin traditions and subsequently English traditions (Concupiscence) that it is difficult to delineate the very "fine lines" that exists between various teachings.

I do not believe that man is born incapable of doing good. Neither do I believe that man is so removed from God that he can't do good for all the right reasons. Nor that tainted innocence produces self serving good. Jesus said very clearly that no man has greater love than to die for another. Yet, Non-Christians die for one another all the time.

However, Jesus took this a step further when He detailed how Christ died for His enemies. (which is what mankind had become). It is rather certain that the very details of our existence in this life prove that we are born in an environment of suffering. This suffering is relative to how our "fathers before us" treated God. Thusly, mankind has been previously judged incapable of actually pleasing God. Which is why Christ died. Christ died to rescue mankind.

Dying for enemies is heavenly. Divine. This is contrary to mankind. We seek vengeance for our own.

Can you agree that only the Divine can love in such a manner as this? Such is only imparted to us through the Divine love of Jesus Christ. Even Angels don't love in such a manner.

1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

1Pe 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

Do you agree with me thus far?
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We are not on the same page. We see Christianity different. This idea that the spirit of Christ makes our flesh spiritual is believed by most because the churches teach that Christians still have a sin nature. They do not. It's destroyed after the spirit of Christ has come upon the Christian. It seems like the whole Christian world teaches that the spirit follows the flesh, and by that, I mean the spirit functions through the flesh. I'm daring to believe the Christian's flesh should walk in or after and therefore be led by the spirit of Christ that just happens to be in the Christian. It's not really my spirit, but rather the spirit of Christ. And if you want to split hairs, it's really not his spirit because it came from God, which is why it's sometimes referred to as the spirit of God. When we read it's not you that speak, but the spirit of your Father.That does not mean God is speaking through you. It's His spirit that He gave to you tha He calls the spirit of His son.

I was taught since I was 19 years old that I had the spirit of Christ within me. And it was this spirit that was the gift from God that gave me everlasting life whereby I can get into heaven. Some teach it's a little seed in the Christian and others teach it's woven between all of the cells of our body. I spent 45 years trying to get God to wake up this spirit by energizing it so that I could control it. The Scriptures really mean just that when it says we should walk in or after the spirit. It's simple. I can be led by the spirit because it's separate from me. All kinds of verses are exploding all over my brain that I never understood before. Or better said, would be that I thought I understood, but now I see a great deal more in verses that I once thought I understood. Now I finally know why when we follow after the spirit we will not walk after the lust of the flesh.

I stopped trying to get the spirit of Christ to work for me. I am now walking in or after it. The reason I cannot lust in the flesh when following after the spirit is because it's impossible to do so since the spirit of Christ does not lust after the flesh. Religious people don't follow after the spirit, but rather they follow after their flesh and call it spiritual. The religious folks lead with their flesh and call it Christian. The church folks clean up their flesh by making themselves nice. Then they say this is Christian because we are being nice like the way Jesus was. In contrast to that, I believe we should walk after the spirit of Christ.
 
MTMattie said:
Except the bibles they read often change a verse just enough to make it seem to suggest something else.

Such as the JW choice on John 8:24 reads That is why I said to you: You will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am the one, you will die in your sins.”

They add the one... and meaning changes.from "I am" to I am the one who can save you leaving the God name out of things.
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Whoever changed the word of God will pay dearly.
 
Peterlag said:
We are not on the same page. We see Christianity different. This idea that the spirit of Christ makes our flesh spiritual is believed by most because the churches teach that Christians still have a sin nature.
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Before I deal with anything else you stated, I'd like to recognize that I said mankind is born innocent. Innocence is neither good nor bad. Can you recognize that I stated that previously?

Adam and Eve were created. Adam and Eve were unique from us. We (man as he is currently) are born after their image. You nor I were ever created in the same manner that Adam and Eve were created. It is important to recognize this fact.

God literally breathed into Adam and Eve's physical bodies the very "breath of life". God didn't do this for us. We are born. It is requirement for us to be "born again" to experience a fully Spiritual condition.

Ezekiel deals with "Dead Bones".

Eze 37:4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.
Eze 37:5 Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:

The Spirit of God comes to us in WORDS. The words of Jesus are spirit and they are life.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Such words impart knowledge to our Innocence.

Flesh certainly isn't Spiritual. It is animated in the life of the seed of the man and the seed of the women. Those two join to form life in their offspring. This is where doctrines such as Total Depravity are wrong. We are neither good nor bad when we are born. However, we are exposed to good and bad as soon as conception takes place in the joining of seeds. Some of those seeds are even genetically tainted with weakness associated with diseases. Diseases that rob the offspring of Adam and Eve of their full capabilities. (Physical genetic abnormalities.)

Our Innocence is lost in what we learn and ultimately practice. Jesus insisted that little children are precious in their Innocence.

Mat 19:13 Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them.
Mat 19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 19:15 And he laid his hands on them, and departed thence.

There is also a Spiritual battle for the minds of men throughout their lives between Satan, the faithful and God/Jesus Christ. Jesus defeated death hell and the grave for us.

Do you agree? No one has to accept the teachings of Total Depravity. I will say that many Protestants do believe in Total Depravity. Currently, most Catholics do not.
 
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Peterlag said:
I'm in him. In Christ. I'm in the spirit. I walk by the spirit. There's no such thing as a spirit to pray to or saints or Mary.
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Well, the Holy Spirit is in me. And I do talk to Him. And I thank Him often. Especially when I see His work in answering some threads I never would have gone near.

And I pray to and I talk to Jesus also

And The Father....
 
praise_yeshua said:
If God didn't hear sinners, I wouldn't be saved. Longsuffering is Divine.
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When Jesus said, "Your sins are forgiven"—even before He died on the cross—He was not speaking empty words. He had the power to forgive sin, just like He had the power to heal paralysis. In fact, Jesus used the physical healing to confirm His authority to dispense spiritual healing:
\
In John 20:23, Jesus tells His disciples, "If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven." The very core of the gospel message is the truth that the way someone has their sins forgiven is by having faith in Jesus Christ as his or her Lord and Savior.

Acts 16:31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.

Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

It was Jesus' death on the cross and subsequent resurrection that achieved our salvation (Romans 5:10; Ephesians 1:7).

Hebrews 7:25...Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

How does God save? In the Christian doctrine of salvation, God has rescued us through Jesus Christ (John 3:17). Specifically, it was Jesus' death on the cross and subsequent resurrection that achieved our salvation (Romans 5:10; Ephesians 1:7).

Jesus is God in human form (John 1:1, 14). He came to Earth as a true human being (1 John 4:2) in the person of Jesus Christ in order to save us. That brings up the next question: why do we need to be saved?

Because we have sinned against an infinite God, either a finite person (each one of us) must pay for our sins for an infinite amount of time, or an infinite Person (Jesus) must pay for our sins one time. There is no other option. Jesus saves us by dying in our place. Jesus Christ sacrificed Himself on our behalf, paying the infinite and eternal penalty only He could pay (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 John 2:2). Jesus took the punishment that we deserve in order to save us from an eternal destiny separated from God. Because of His great love for us, Jesus laid down His life (John 15:13), paying the penalty that we had earned, but could not pay. Three days later, Jesus rose from the dead, demonstrating that His death was indeed sufficient to pay for our sins and that His life conquers death on our behalf (1 Corinthians 15).

Jesus saves, but whom does He save?
Jesus saves all who will receive His gift of salvation by faith. Jesus saves all those who cease trying to save themselves and fully trust in His sacrifice alone as the payment for sin (John 3:16; Acts 16:31). Jesus’ sacrifice was sufficient to pay for the sins of all humanity, but His gift of salvation is only received through faith (John 1:12). We must trust Him.

The jailor asked... What must I do to be saved.

The calm answer of Paul and Silas was, “Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved.”

So yes indeed. God the Son does save.
 
MTMattie said:
When Jesus said, "Your sins are forgiven"—even before He died on the cross—He was not speaking empty words. He had the power to forgive sin, just like He had the power to heal paralysis. In fact, Jesus used the physical healing to confirm His authority to dispense spiritual healing:
\
In John 20:23, Jesus tells His disciples, "If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven." The very core of the gospel message is the truth that the way someone has their sins forgiven is by having faith in Jesus Christ as his or her Lord and Savior.

Acts 16:31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.

Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

It was Jesus' death on the cross and subsequent resurrection that achieved our salvation (Romans 5:10; Ephesians 1:7).

Hebrews 7:25...Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

How does God save? In the Christian doctrine of salvation, God has rescued us through Jesus Christ (John 3:17). Specifically, it was Jesus' death on the cross and subsequent resurrection that achieved our salvation (Romans 5:10; Ephesians 1:7).

Jesus is God in human form (John 1:1, 14). He came to Earth as a true human being (1 John 4:2) in the person of Jesus Christ in order to save us. That brings up the next question: why do we need to be saved?

Because we have sinned against an infinite God, either a finite person (each one of us) must pay for our sins for an infinite amount of time, or an infinite Person (Jesus) must pay for our sins one time. There is no other option. Jesus saves us by dying in our place. Jesus Christ sacrificed Himself on our behalf, paying the infinite and eternal penalty only He could pay (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 John 2:2). Jesus took the punishment that we deserve in order to save us from an eternal destiny separated from God. Because of His great love for us, Jesus laid down His life (John 15:13), paying the penalty that we had earned, but could not pay. Three days later, Jesus rose from the dead, demonstrating that His death was indeed sufficient to pay for our sins and that His life conquers death on our behalf (1 Corinthians 15).

Jesus saves, but whom does He save?
Jesus saves all who will receive His gift of salvation by faith. Jesus saves all those who cease trying to save themselves and fully trust in His sacrifice alone as the payment for sin (John 3:16; Acts 16:31). Jesus’ sacrifice was sufficient to pay for the sins of all humanity, but His gift of salvation is only received through faith (John 1:12). We must trust Him.

The jailor asked... What must I do to be saved.

The calm answer of Paul and Silas was, “Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved.”

So yes indeed. God the Son does save.
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The question of sin is actually settled like you said. The issue is now how a person treats the sacrificial Lamb of Jesus Christ. The Sacrifice is risen. Alive
forever more and has earned the keys of death and hell. It is all about Jesus Christ.
 
MTMattie said:
Explain EX 33:22.... (God YHWH is speaking to Moses. and it will come about, while My glory is passing by, that I will put you in the cleft of the rock and cover you with My hand until I have passed by.

You have no concept of the spirit of God.

He also said "“Then I will take My hand away and you shall see My back, but My face shall not be seen.”

If He has none of these then what is the throne He sits on in heaven?
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Imagery to describe what Moses experienced as usual. God is in invisible Spirit without human hands, just on the other hand is a human with human hands. God isn't served by those. Therefore Jesus isn't God and man. Case closed as far as I am concerned.
 
Runningman said:
"I am" is a normal phrase that people say when they refer to themselves. It doesn't refer to being God. You are going way too far off the deep end with that.
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synergy said:
All unitarians are evidently just novices in the word of God.
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57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”

58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

Novices are just learning that these passages are explicit proof that Jesus saw Abraham and even existed before Abraham as the "I Am", God of the OT. "I Am" is the name of the OT God as recorded in Ex 3:14.

CC: @MTMattie
 
synergy said:
57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”

58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

Novices are just learning that these passages are explicit proof that Jesus saw Abraham and even existed before Abraham as the "I Am", God of the OT. "I Am" is the name of the OT God as recorded in Ex 3:14.

CC: @MTMattie
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That's the fallacy of equivocation. You're broadening the definition of common ways one refers to themselves to also include a claim to deity. It's obvious because people say "I am" all the time just to refer to themselves. You are hung up on a serious case of bias when Jesus didn't even say what God did in Exodus 3:14,15 nor is Jesus the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob according to Acts 3:13. I am under the impression you don't care what the Bible says. You have your beliefs and nothing will wrest you from them.

Question. If you found out you were wrong, would you change?
 

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