The Trinity and the Incarnation

[Runningman]

This is exactly what I’m trying to avoid--confrontation...
What you dismiss as “feeble attention,” I see as the very words of God speaking to you...

Yet here you misrepresent me, putting words in my mouth—I never said Jesus was merely a tool...

I clearly stated He is the Agent... the Creator Himself... and even if one used the word “tool,” Scripture still shows Him as the divine means through whom all things came to be.

Take care and God bless.

J.

I'm sorry, but I am not trying to represent you at all. What I do is just provide what the truth is even if it is contrary to what you said. Also, context. Colossians 1:15 makes a strong case in the Greek that Jesus was himself created nor is the invisible God because Jesus is a visible image or representation. As I said somewhere, you will need a full Bible commentary or at least an apologetics guide book to explain your point. It isn't just a one-verse-wonder and that's it.

 

[Johann]

I'm sorry, but I am not trying to represent you at all. What I do is just provide what the truth is even if it is contrary to what you said. Also, context. Colossians 1:15 makes a strong case in the Greek that Jesus was himself created nor is the invisible God because Jesus is a visible image or representation. As I said somewhere, you will need a full Bible commentary or at least an apologetics guide book to explain your point. It isn't just a one-verse-wonder and that's it.

Which I have, but you are not interested.

J.

 

[Runningman]

Which I have, but you are not interested.

J.

Sir, yes absolutely a Trinitarian interpretation was provided in your comment, but after that I introduced some context. We should look at all of the context, pass some ideas back and forth, search through the Bible, see what we can come up with. I guess we see it all differently. I am not a Trinitarian if that explains a bit better where I am coming from. I firmly believe we should all be truth seekers.

 

[Keiw1]

Are you saying Jesus is a created being?

J.

The firstborn of all creation( Col 1:15)==The word possessed in Hebrew at Prov 8:22 translates created.

 

[Keiw1]

You have some kind of Polytheism going on there. How can Jesus be around before Abraham, and be one who was beside God during creation, and be just a man?

Aside from this.. firstborn over all creation..check the context.

Things like 'son of man'
'Begotten'
'First born'

Have deeper meaning in comparison with other key verses

He wasn't named Jesus in the OT-He is Michael.

 

[Keiw1]

Only those who do not belong to YHWH YAHshua HaMashiach are being misled.

REALITY is "IAM the WAY the TRUTH and the LIFE, no one comes to the FATHER but thru ME/JESUS"

Yes through Jesus=obeying ALL he taught to be accepted by his Father.

 

[Keiw1]

JESUS is the Destination with the FATHER and the HOLY SPIRIT = 3

Yes, learning and obeying all that Jesus taught to have ones worship accepted by the Father. And to remain in Jesus' love and remain his friend= one must obey, just as Jesus must obey his Father to remain in his love.( John 15:10-14
Ones who do not obey remain in Gods wrath.

 

[DavidTree]

Yes, learning and obeying all that Jesus taught to have ones worship accepted by the Father. And to remain in Jesus' love and remain his friend= one must obey, just as Jesus must obey his Father to remain in his love.( John 15:10-14
Ones who do not obey remain in Gods wrath.

The FATHER teaches all of creation to worship the SAVIOR who is the LORD JESUS CHRIST

Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9And they sang a new song, saying:

“You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
10And have made [d]us kings[e] and priests to our God;
And [f]we shall reign on the earth.”
11Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, the living creatures, and the elders; and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands, 12saying with a loud voice:

“Worthy is the Lamb who was slain
To receive power and riches and wisdom,
And strength and honor and glory and blessing!”
13And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying:

“Blessing and honor and glory and power
Be to Him who sits on the throne,
And to the Lamb, forever and [g]ever!”
14Then the four living creatures said, “Amen!” And the [h]twenty-four elders fell down and worshiped https://biblehub.com/nkjv/revelation/5.htm#footnotesHim who lives forever and ever.

 

[Runningman]

The FATHER teaches all of creation to worship the SAVIOR who is the LORD JESUS CHRIST

Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9And they sang a new song, saying:

“You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
10And have made [d]us kings[e] and priests to our God;
And [f]we shall reign on the earth.”
11Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, the living creatures, and the elders; and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands, 12saying with a loud voice:

“Worthy is the Lamb who was slain
To receive power and riches and wisdom,
And strength and honor and glory and blessing!”
13And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying:

“Blessing and honor and glory and power
Be to Him who sits on the throne,
And to the Lamb, forever and [g]ever!”
14Then the four living creatures said, “Amen!” And the [h]twenty-four elders fell down and worshiped https://biblehub.com/nkjv/revelation/5.htm#footnotesHim who lives forever and ever.

Jesus explicitly taught in John 4 that only the true worshippers worship the Father. No mention of anyone else. No one has ever worshipped Jesus in spirit and truth.

John 4
23But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”

 

[MTMattie]

Any can look that up for self=In the OT the tetragramaton= Gods name=YHWH or YHVH, Not GOD or LORD as is found in altered translations-nearly 6800 places God willed his name there, Quoted in NT over 200 spots in NT. Even Jerome told the Catholic leader Gods name belongs in the NT before he translated, But it was they who removed it in the 4th century=The Latin Vulgate and Codex sinacticus. All protestant translations came from those 2 Catholicism works.

Guess Jesus should have thought before He said.... "“I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it."

Tell me @Keiw1.... Do you even read any bible? What translation do you use or are you folks writing your own?

Actually... when you stop and think back to the early 1960s... which I am sure you are too young to know about but can research the RCC discouraged their flock from reading the bible. I know this personally from family and friends and those of family who would attend mass but did not even own a bible .. and they explained that the bible was too complicated for man to understand therefore the priests got it right with their studies. This is fact.

So if Peter, as in St. Peter, was not picked by Jesus... look how much happier you would be.

 

[DavidTree]

Jesus explicitly taught in John 4 that only the true worshippers worship the Father. No mention of anyone else. No one has ever worshipped Jesus in spirit and truth.

John 4
23But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”

No one has ever worshipped Jesus in spirit and truth.

No one who is void of the Holy Spirit has ever worshipped JESUS in Spirit and in Truth.

Fixed it for you.

For this reason the Jews persecuted Jesus, and sought to kill Him, because He had done these things on the Sabbath.
But Jesus answered them, “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.”

18Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God. 19Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner. 20For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel. 21For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will. 22For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, 23that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father.
He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

 

[Peterlag]

Guess Jesus should have thought before He said.... "“I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it."

Tell me @Keiw1.... Do you even read any bible? What translation do you use or are you folks writing your own?

Actually... when you stop and think back to the early 1960s... which I am sure you are too young to know about but can research the RCC discouraged their flock from reading the bible. I know this personally from family and friends and those of family who would attend mass but did not even own a bible .. and they explained that the bible was too complicated for man to understand therefore the priests got it right with their studies. This is fact.

So if Peter, as in St. Peter, was not picked by Jesus... look how much happier you would be.

There's two different Greek words used for rock concerning Peter. E.W. Bullinger writes in his Critical Lexicon and Concordance to the English and Greek New Testament that the word Jesus used for Peter was more like here today and gone tomorrow. Just check it with and concordance. Jesus was not saying Peter was a rock. But more so that he was a little stone that blows in the wind. Jesus was referring to himself when he used the other Greek word for rock.

 

[360watt]

Jesus explicitly taught in John 4 that only the true worshippers worship the Father. No mention of anyone else. No one has ever worshipped Jesus in spirit and truth.

John 4
23But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”

Completely missing the context that the woman Jesus is talking to called the one to worship the Messiah, in which Jesus claimed to be the Messiah.

 

[Peterlag]

Folks keep giving me this a lot saying only God can forgive sins...

When I ask for a verse on that in the New Testament I am often given...

Mark 2:7
Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?

Do folks realize such a verse is not doctrine, but rather what the unbelievers said. Let that sink in. For doctrine folks are posting what the unbelieving Jews said.