The Trinity and the Incarnation

Keiw1 said:
Elohim is a Hebrew word which translates-the supreme one for the true God. It is not a name. It can be used plural, like for the false 3 headed gods served in the OT days. But never for the true God.
Elijah translates-EL(Elohim) is JAH(Jehovah) YHVH)
Click to expand...
another ERROR of the day.
H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m.
אֱלֹהֵי 'elohiy (el-o-hee') [alternate plural]
1. (literally) supreme ones.
2. (hence, in the ordinary sense) gods.
3. (specifically, in the plural, especially with the article) the Supreme God (i.e. the all supreme).
4. (sometimes) supreme, used as a superlative.
5. (occasionally, by way of deference) supreme magistrates, the highest magistrates of the land.
6. (also) the supreme angels (entities of unspecified type).
[plural of H433]
KJV: angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
Root(s): H433
[plural of H433] and H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) n-m. is,
אֱלֹהַּ 'eloahh (el-o'-ah) [shortened (rarely)]
1. one with supreme strength and ability.
2. the Supreme Being, God the Creator, Yahweh by name.
3. a supreme entity, a god-like creature (that is, one of God's supreme creations, or one of man's inventions).
[probably prolonged (emphat.) from H410]
KJV: God, god.
Root(s): H410

God is the H 259 ECHAD of himself in flesh

101G.
 
Runningman said:
yep and what did Jesus say to the Jews in John 10:34? "You are elohim..."

John 10 (NIV)
34Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods” ’?
Click to expand...
Desperate measures for desperate people.

Read about YOUR NIV
becomingchristians.com

12 Unspoken Reasons Why You Should Not Use the New International Version (NIV) Bible - Becoming Christians

Many people love to use the NIV or New International Version Bible. However, most of them are oblivious to terrifying ways how the NIV corrupted the Word of God. Don't believe me? Here are the reasons you should stop using the NIV Bible!
becomingchristians.com becomingchristians.com

12 Unspoken Reasons Why You Should Not Use the New International Version (NIV) Bible​


The New International Version or simply, the NIV, is currently the second most popular translation of the Bible. However, this does not mean that you have to follow this trend. Before you reach for the NIV Bible, I want to warn you of its silent molestation and corruption of the Bible!

Yes, you read that right. Molestation and corruption. Strong words. So, let me explain my point.

After reading this post and you still rely on your salvation on this unholy Bible translation, then it is up to you to answer to God. I know this can be a big shock to many Christians and non-Christians alike, but the NIV Bible isn’t what it claims to be.

Don’t believe me? Then, please read these 12 compelling reasons you should not use the NIV.

Read on to find out more!
Table of Contents
______________________________________________________-
It is too long to copy here.

You owe it to yourself to read the link

Ill give just a few examples, and then you might know why we do not trust wht YOU say

Reason no. 1: Missing verses​

The most obvious reason you should not use the NIV is that a lot of Bible verses are missing!

Let me just give you a few examples.

Open your New King James Version to Luke 9:56 and you will read:

“For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but to save them.” And they went to another village.

Now, compare that to NIV:

Then he and his disciples went to another village.

That’s it! That’s all that you can read in the NIV. You won’t read the first part of the verse which I believe is a powerful and important message for all Christians.

Now, if you are just reading Luke 9:56 in the NIV, you won’t know that Yahshua the Messiah or Jesus Christ did not come to destroy men’s lives but to save them!

Isn’t it sad?

Now, this is not just the only omission in the NIV. Let me give you another example. Compare Matthew 18:11:

For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost (NKJV).

Now, turn to Matthew 18:11 in your NIV Bible. What do you see? Nothing but a footnote – a footnote that says, “Some manuscripts include here the words of Luke 19:10.”

This footnote confirms that NIV is missing a verse and rightly so.

Again, the statement you read in Matthew 18:11 is an important aspect of Christ’s ministry. He came to the world to save the lost! However, this very word is denied to all NIV readers!

Let me give you another example of NIV’s deliberate shredding of God’s word. Read Matthew 9:13.

NKJV – But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’ For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”

NIV – But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’[a] For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

Did you see the subtle difference between the two translations? NKJV specifically mentioned that Jesus is calling the sinners TO REPENTANCE! You won’t read these words in the NIV translation.

Now, these three verses are among the many passages that the NIV changed. According to one estimate I read, there are over 60,000 words deleted in the NIV translation!

Let me give you a list of some of the verses that NIV deleted.

Those are some of the verses that were eternally denied to all NIV users.

Go, check it yourself and confirm how NIV molested the Bible by eliminating these important verses from your Bible.

If you think this is something of minor importance, then think again. As the Apostle mentioned, a little leaven leavens the whole lump (Galatians 5:9). The compound effect of these missing verses surely leads to many deceptions and sadly, a misunderstanding of the scripture.
Ill try to post Reason 2. Hope I'll have enough room

Reason no. 2: NIV contradicts other Bible translations​

Picture this: you are having a discussion with your church members, friends, or family. Then suddenly, you noticed that your Bibles don’t agree!

It is one thing when two people don’t agree and it is completely a different thing to see the Word of God clashing with each other!

If you read the NIV and compare it to NKJV, you will see a glaring discrepancy. Let me give you some examples:

  • Revelation 8:13 – an angel (NKJV); an eagle (NIV) – so which is which? Is it an angel or an eagle?
  • Ephesians 5:9 – for the fruit the spirit (NKJV); for the fruit of the light (NIV) – The phrase “the fruit of the spirit” is more believable since it is a common expression throughout the Bible.
  • Luke 4:44 – synagogues of Galilee (NKJV); synagogues of Judea (NIV)
  • Revelation 13:1 – in this verse, NIV mentioned that it was the dragon that stood on the shore of the sea, but in NKJV, you will read that it was John who stood on the shore of the sea. Such inconsistency can easily shake the faith of a babe in Christ.
These are just some of the minor differences in wording between NKJV and NIV. Though minor, they can nevertheless change the meaning of a verse. This leads us to the third point.

Reason no. 3: Meaning of the verse changed​

If you change a word in a verse, it will affect the entire message or meaning of the verse. Notice how the NIV undermined the eternal existence of Yahshua or Jesus in Micah 5:2:

Here’s what the NIV mentioned:

“But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah,
out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times.”

Compare this with what the NKJV mentioned:

“But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of you shall come forth to Me the One to be Ruler in Israel, whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting.”

There’s a huge difference between everlasting and ancient times.

One of the greatest proofs of Christ’s divinity is His eternal existence. If you are to prove this, you can always go to Micah 5:2. However, if you are going to use the NIV, you will be disappointed to see that Christ is only mentioned to exist from “ancient times!”

“From everlasting” denotes Christ’s eternal existence.

“Ancient times” is only saying that Christ is very old or He has a beginning!
Number 4 is bad....

Reason no. 4: NIV denies Christ as the Creator​

This might be a shock to many Christians, but Yahshua or Jesus Christ is the Creator of all things. Now, this is entirely a different topic that I won’t discuss today, but you may simply check out these verses as they prove that Christ is the Creator: Colossians 1:16; John 1:1-3; and Hebrews 11:3.

There’s one particular verse that I want you to take a look at. It’s found in Ephesians 3:9:

“And to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things” (NIV).

“And to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ” (NKJV).

Did you see a big difference? NIV just denied Christ’s Creatorship!

This is a direct assault on Christ’s divine nature and His role as our Creator, Savior, and Messiah.

Now, if you are just using the NIV, how would you know this profound truth written in the pages of your Bible? Surely, NIV users are again eternally denied of this truth.

Number 5 says every NIV should go out in the trash.

Reason no. 5: NIV suggests that Joseph is the father of Christ​

Look into Luke 2:33 and compare NIV and NKJV.

The child’s father and mother marveled at what was said about him (NIV).

And Joseph and His mother marveled at those things which were spoken of Him (NKJV).

Jesus does not have a human father. Replacing the name Joseph with “child’s father” directly goes against the teaching of the Bible that Christ was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 1:18). If Christ has a human father, then the prophecy of the Messiah being born of a virgin (Isaiah 7:14) has become a deception.
 
Last edited:
Rory Wilson said:
I see a paradox in modern day Christianity in regard respectively to God and Christ. The first is the doctrine of the Trinity that the one God comprises three Persons. The second is the doctrine that in Christ are comprised two Natures, that of God and that of Man, in one Person.

How does one get around the fact that no one succeeds in stating the doctrine which they can explicitly defend without implicitly dissolving some essential element of the Trinity. He who maintains the Trinity either dissolves the three members and robs them of all significance, or else so elaborates the distinctions between them as to dissolve the unity of God into sheer fiction. I believe this is the bottom line for the controversy over the doctrine of the trinity.

He who, again, maintains the dual nature of Christ does one or other of these three things: he either makes the manhood of Jesus a mere appearance, or reduces the deity of Christ to no godhood at all, or else breaks up the personality into two persons without any real personal unity.

I believe that it's necessary to think of the Son as eternally associated with the Father, if we are to believe that love is the nature of God; because love in its essence is social, and God’s love could not otherwise find an object prior to the existence of created things. If you've been on Christian's forums for a while I'm sure you've heard this before.

Who, then, was God loving before he created everything? That's where the fellowship of the trinity comes in,

Before the universe existed, there was only God—but He was not alone. Since God is a Trinity—the Persons of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit all share in the same divine nature, and they are one God. This aspect of God’s nature was not fully revealed in the Old Testament, but there are some intriguing hints of plurality in the Godhead in the Old Testament. For instance, while contemplating the incomprehensibility of God.

Who has ascended to heaven and come down?
Who has gathered the wind in his fists?
Who has wrapped up the waters in a garment?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What is his name, and what is his son’s name?
Surely you know!
Proverbs 30:4
Click to expand...
The TRUTH of the PLURALITY of 'God' begins in Genesis chapter 1

This TRUTH begins in Genesis chapter 1 and then continues thru Genesis and confirmed in Exodus.

This TRUTH continues thru the prophets and is Fully SEEN in the Gospel, the Apostles letters and Revelation.
 
Runningman said:
yep and what did Jesus say to the Jews in John 10:34? "You are elohim..."

John 10 (NIV)
34Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods” ’?
Click to expand...
but why not read the next verses in the OT quote? listen, Psalms 82:7 "But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes."

now do the almighty elohim die or fall? so we see it's not speaking of the almighty, but men. for
H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m.
אֱלֹהֵי 'elohiy (el-o-hee') [alternate plural]
1. (literally) supreme ones.
2. (hence, in the ordinary sense) gods.
3. (specifically, in the plural, especially with the article) the Supreme God (i.e. the all supreme).
4. (sometimes) supreme, used as a superlative.
5. (occasionally, by way of deference) supreme magistrates, the highest magistrates of the land.
6. (also) the supreme angels (entities of unspecified type).
[plural of H433]
KJV: angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
Root(s): H433

definition #5 ..... as Judges...
context, context.

101G.
 
Keiw1 said:
Elohim is a Hebrew word which translates-the supreme one for the true God. It is not a name. It can be used plural, like for the false 3 headed gods served in the OT days. But never for the true God.
Elijah translates-EL(Elohim) is JAH(Jehovah) YHVH)
Click to expand...
Genesis 1:1–26 (KJV 1900) — 1 IN the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. 6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. 9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. 11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 13 And the evening and the morning were the third day. 14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day. 20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. 21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. 23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day. 24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Note God is plural starting at verse 1 and represented by a plural pronoun us verse 26

1730729457134.png


1730729576289.png
 
TomL said:
So are you now confessing Jesus is God?

Or are you making Jesus less than the false Gods?
Click to expand...
I am using Scripture to prove that those to whom the word of God came are elohim. There are many more varied and nuance forms of the word god in Jewish culture than we have in the modern day. Thus, we have proven elohim isn't an exclusive for Lord God Almighty.
 
TomL said:
Genesis 1:1–26 (KJV 1900) — 1 IN the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. 6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. 9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. 11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 13 And the evening and the morning were the third day. 14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day. 20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. 21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. 23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day. 24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Note God is plural starting at verse 1 and represented by a plural pronoun us verse 26

View attachment 1052


View attachment 1053
Click to expand...
they never, ever, ever, not once tell us who Our and Us is.

Their only comment is it is translated wrong.... and all too often translated wrong by the Catholics.
 
101G said:
but why not read the next verses in the OT quote? listen, Psalms 82:7 "But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes."

now do the almighty elohim die or fall? so we see it's not speaking of the almighty, but men. for
H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m.
אֱלֹהֵי 'elohiy (el-o-hee') [alternate plural]
1. (literally) supreme ones.
2. (hence, in the ordinary sense) gods.
3. (specifically, in the plural, especially with the article) the Supreme God (i.e. the all supreme).
4. (sometimes) supreme, used as a superlative.
5. (occasionally, by way of deference) supreme magistrates, the highest magistrates of the land.
6. (also) the supreme angels (entities of unspecified type).
[plural of H433]
KJV: angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
Root(s): H433

definition #5 ..... as Judges...
context, context.

101G.
Click to expand...
It's translated as them being gods in the LXX and Jewish theology. Check it out.
 
MTMattie said:
they never, ever, ever, not once tell us who Our and Us is.

Their only comment is it is translated wrong.... and all too often translated wrong by the Catholics.
Click to expand...
It can only have one possibility or option.

Since we know God created man in His image alone, in His likeness alone not the angels.

So the plural US, WE, OUR must mean God is Plural in Persons.

This is their achilles heal.
 
MTMattie said:
Desperate measures for desperate people.

Read about YOUR NIV
becomingchristians.com

12 Unspoken Reasons Why You Should Not Use the New International Version (NIV) Bible - Becoming Christians

Many people love to use the NIV or New International Version Bible. However, most of them are oblivious to terrifying ways how the NIV corrupted the Word of God. Don't believe me? Here are the reasons you should stop using the NIV Bible!
becomingchristians.com becomingchristians.com

12 Unspoken Reasons Why You Should Not Use the New International Version (NIV) Bible​


The New International Version or simply, the NIV, is currently the second most popular translation of the Bible. However, this does not mean that you have to follow this trend. Before you reach for the NIV Bible, I want to warn you of its silent molestation and corruption of the Bible!

Yes, you read that right. Molestation and corruption. Strong words. So, let me explain my point.

After reading this post and you still rely on your salvation on this unholy Bible translation, then it is up to you to answer to God. I know this can be a big shock to many Christians and non-Christians alike, but the NIV Bible isn’t what it claims to be.

Don’t believe me? Then, please read these 12 compelling reasons you should not use the NIV.

Read on to find out more!
Table of Contents
______________________________________________________-
It is too long to copy here.

You owe it to yourself to read the link

Ill give just a few examples, and then you might know why we do not trust wht YOU say

Reason no. 1: Missing verses​

The most obvious reason you should not use the NIV is that a lot of Bible verses are missing!

Let me just give you a few examples.

Open your New King James Version to Luke 9:56 and you will read:

“For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but to save them.” And they went to another village.

Now, compare that to NIV:

Then he and his disciples went to another village.

That’s it! That’s all that you can read in the NIV. You won’t read the first part of the verse which I believe is a powerful and important message for all Christians.

Now, if you are just reading Luke 9:56 in the NIV, you won’t know that Yahshua the Messiah or Jesus Christ did not come to destroy men’s lives but to save them!

Isn’t it sad?

Now, this is not just the only omission in the NIV. Let me give you another example. Compare Matthew 18:11:

For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost (NKJV).

Now, turn to Matthew 18:11 in your NIV Bible. What do you see? Nothing but a footnote – a footnote that says, “Some manuscripts include here the words of Luke 19:10.”

This footnote confirms that NIV is missing a verse and rightly so.

Again, the statement you read in Matthew 18:11 is an important aspect of Christ’s ministry. He came to the world to save the lost! However, this very word is denied to all NIV readers!

Let me give you another example of NIV’s deliberate shredding of God’s word. Read Matthew 9:13.

NKJV – But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’ For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”

NIV – But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’[a] For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

Did you see the subtle difference between the two translations? NKJV specifically mentioned that Jesus is calling the sinners TO REPENTANCE! You won’t read these words in the NIV translation.

Now, these three verses are among the many passages that the NIV changed. According to one estimate I read, there are over 60,000 words deleted in the NIV translation!

Let me give you a list of some of the verses that NIV deleted.

Those are some of the verses that were eternally denied to all NIV users.

Go, check it yourself and confirm how NIV molested the Bible by eliminating these important verses from your Bible.

If you think this is something of minor importance, then think again. As the Apostle mentioned, a little leaven leavens the whole lump (Galatians 5:9). The compound effect of these missing verses surely leads to many deceptions and sadly, a misunderstanding of the scripture.
Ill try to post Reason 2. Hope I'll have enough room

Reason no. 2: NIV contradicts other Bible translations​

Picture this: you are having a discussion with your church members, friends, or family. Then suddenly, you noticed that your Bibles don’t agree!

It is one thing when two people don’t agree and it is completely a different thing to see the Word of God clashing with each other!

If you read the NIV and compare it to NKJV, you will see a glaring discrepancy. Let me give you some examples:

  • Revelation 8:13 – an angel (NKJV); an eagle (NIV) – so which is which? Is it an angel or an eagle?
  • Ephesians 5:9 – for the fruit the spirit (NKJV); for the fruit of the light (NIV) – The phrase “the fruit of the spirit” is more believable since it is a common expression throughout the Bible.
  • Luke 4:44 – synagogues of Galilee (NKJV); synagogues of Judea (NIV)
  • Revelation 13:1 – in this verse, NIV mentioned that it was the dragon that stood on the shore of the sea, but in NKJV, you will read that it was John who stood on the shore of the sea. Such inconsistency can easily shake the faith of a babe in Christ.
These are just some of the minor differences in wording between NKJV and NIV. Though minor, they can nevertheless change the meaning of a verse. This leads us to the third point.

Reason no. 3: Meaning of the verse changed​

If you change a word in a verse, it will affect the entire message or meaning of the verse. Notice how the NIV undermined the eternal existence of Yahshua or Jesus in Micah 5:2:

Here’s what the NIV mentioned:

“But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah,
out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times.”

Compare this with what the NKJV mentioned:

“But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of you shall come forth to Me the One to be Ruler in Israel, whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting.”

There’s a huge difference between everlasting and ancient times.

One of the greatest proofs of Christ’s divinity is His eternal existence. If you are to prove this, you can always go to Micah 5:2. However, if you are going to use the NIV, you will be disappointed to see that Christ is only mentioned to exist from “ancient times!”

“From everlasting” denotes Christ’s eternal existence.

“Ancient times” is only saying that Christ is very old or He has a beginning!
Number 4 is bad....

Reason no. 4: NIV denies Christ as the Creator​

This might be a shock to many Christians, but Yahshua or Jesus Christ is the Creator of all things. Now, this is entirely a different topic that I won’t discuss today, but you may simply check out these verses as they prove that Christ is the Creator: Colossians 1:16; John 1:1-3; and Hebrews 11:3.

There’s one particular verse that I want you to take a look at. It’s found in Ephesians 3:9:

“And to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things” (NIV).

“And to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ” (NKJV).

Did you see a big difference? NIV just denied Christ’s Creatorship!

This is a direct assault on Christ’s divine nature and His role as our Creator, Savior, and Messiah.

Now, if you are just using the NIV, how would you know this profound truth written in the pages of your Bible? Surely, NIV users are again eternally denied of this truth.

Number 5 says every NIV should go out in the trash.

Reason no. 5: NIV suggests that Joseph is the father of Christ​

Look into Luke 2:33 and compare NIV and NKJV.

The child’s father and mother marveled at what was said about him (NIV).

And Joseph and His mother marveled at those things which were spoken of Him (NKJV).

Jesus does not have a human father. Replacing the name Joseph with “child’s father” directly goes against the teaching of the Bible that Christ was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 1:18). If Christ has a human father, then the prophecy of the Messiah being born of a virgin (Isaiah 7:14) has become a deception.
Click to expand...
Which version do you like then?
 
MTMattie said:
they never, ever, ever, not once tell us who Our and Us is.

Their only comment is it is translated wrong.... and all too often translated wrong by the Catholics.
Click to expand...
they never, ever, ever, not once tell us who Our and Us is.
Click to expand...

We are not told who the "Let Us" of Genesis chapter 1 until we get the complete Picture of Who They are as given later on in Genesis and then confirmed in Exodus.
 
Last edited:
civic said:
It can only have one possibility or option.

Since we know God created man in His image alone, in His likeness alone not the angels.

So the plural US, WE, OUR must mean God is Plural in Persons.

This is their achilles heal.
Click to expand...
Furthermore:

“I will be to Him a Father,
And He shall be to Me a Son”?
But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:

“Let all the angels of God worship Him.”
And of the angels He says:

“Who makes His angels spirits
And His ministers a flame of fire.”

“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
They will perish, but You remain;
And they will all grow old like a garment;
Like a cloak You will fold them up,
And they will be changed.
But You are the same,
And Your years will not fail.”
But to which of the angels has He ever said:

“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”?
Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation?
 
Runningman said:
Which version do you like then?
Click to expand...
There is none that is perfect. Possibly none that is good.

What I do is compare a variety.

If you have not noticed I often will post verses for 4 or 6 different sources with my commentaries.

I am especially fond of the Complete Jewish Bible which is more current and includes the old and new testaments.

But compare with the Tanakh often.

I have a fondness for the Peshitta as well.

As to the more commonly viewed and known translations.. I avoid the NIV knowing it has bastardized much. I try to
avoid the KJV because there are manythings in there that I personally dont care for.

Nasb 95 and Nasb 20... but still prefer NASB95.

Just for fun some day you should take a single verse, Put it in a search bar and type Bible Hub after it.

I think even you would be amazed at the differences in perceived translations.

Here is just one... because it is a highly debated subject between Catholics and Protestants....

Mathew 1:25

They say the same thing? Do they really? Because the Catholics are not persuaded.

New International Version
But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

New Living Translation
But he did not have sexual relations with her until her son was born. And Joseph named him Jesus.

English Standard Version
but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus.

Berean Standard Bible
But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a Son. And he gave Him the name Jesus.

Berean Literal Bible
But he did not know her until she had brought forth a Son, and he called His name Jesus.

King James Bible
And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

New King James Version
and did not know her till she had brought forth her firstborn Son. And he called His name JESUS.

New American Standard Bible
but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he named Him Jesus.

NASB 1995
but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus.

NASB 1977
and kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus.

Legacy Standard Bible
but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus.

Amplified Bible
but he kept her a virgin until she had given birth to a Son [her firstborn child]; and he named Him Jesus (The LORD is salvation).

Christian Standard Bible
but did not have sexual relations with her until she gave birth to a son. And he named him Jesus.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
but did not know her intimately until she gave birth to a son. And he named Him Jesus.

American Standard Version
and knew her not till she had brought forth a son: and he called his name JESUS.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And he did not know her sexually until she delivered her firstborn son, and she called his name Yeshua.

Contemporary English Version
But they did not sleep together before her baby was born. Then Joseph named him Jesus.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And he knew her not till she brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

English Revised Version
and knew her not till she had brought forth a son: and he called his name JESUS.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
He did not have marital relations with her before she gave birth to a son. Joseph named the child Jesus.

Good News Translation
But he had no sexual relations with her before she gave birth to her son. And Joseph named him Jesus.

International Standard Version
He did not have marital relations with her until she had given birth to a son; and he named him Jesus.

Literal Standard Version
and did not know her until she brought forth her Son—the firstborn, and he called His Name Jesus.

Majority Standard Bible
But he had no union with her until she gave birth to her firstborn Son. And he gave Him the name Jesus.

New American Bible
He had no relations with her until she bore a son, and he named him Jesus.

NET Bible
but did not have marital relations with her until she gave birth to a son, whom he named Jesus.

New Revised Standard Version
but had no marital relations with her until she had borne a son; and he named him Jesus.

New Heart English Bible
and had no marital relations with her until she had brought forth a son; and he named him Jesus.

Webster's Bible Translation
And knew her not till she had brought forth her first-born son: and he called his name JESUS.

Weymouth New Testament
but did not live with her until she had given birth to a son. The child's name he called JESUS.

World English Bible
and didn’t know her sexually until she had given birth to her firstborn son. He named him Jesus.

Young's Literal Translation
and did not know her till she brought forth her son -- the first-born, and he called his name Jesus.

I was in a heated debate a long while ago when I was specifically told that till or until meant the end,
it went no farther.... she remained pure.

So mix the trinity up with potential meanings and verses... just stay away from those that are known to change things
and always remember that we are cautioned to not add to or take away from the scriptures.
 
DavidTree said:
Furthermore:

“I will be to Him a Father,
And He shall be to Me a Son”?
But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:

“Let all the angels of God worship Him.”
And of the angels He says:

“Who makes His angels spirits
And His ministers a flame of fire.”

“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
They will perish, but You remain;
And they will all grow old like a garment;
Like a cloak You will fold them up,
And they will be changed.
But You are the same,
And Your years will not fail.”
But to which of the angels has He ever said:

“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”?
Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation?
Click to expand...
Amen 🙏
 
MTMattie said:
There is none that is perfect. Possibly none that is good.

What I do is compare a variety.

If you have not noticed I often will post verses for 4 or 6 different sources with my commentaries.

I am especially fond of the Complete Jewish Bible which is more current and includes the old and new testaments.

But compare with the Tanakh often.

I have a fondness for the Peshitta as well.

As to the more commonly viewed and known translations.. I avoid the NIV knowing it has bastardized much. I try to
avoid the KJV because there are manythings in there that I personally dont care for.

Nasb 95 and Nasb 20... but still prefer NASB95.

Just for fun some day you should take a single verse, Put it in a search bar and type Bible Hub after it.

I think even you would be amazed at the differences in perceived translations.

Here is just one... because it is a highly debated subject between Catholics and Protestants....

Mathew 1:25

They say the same thing? Do they really? Because the Catholics are not persuaded.

New International Version
But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

New Living Translation
But he did not have sexual relations with her until her son was born. And Joseph named him Jesus.

English Standard Version
but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus.

Berean Standard Bible
But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a Son. And he gave Him the name Jesus.

Berean Literal Bible
But he did not know her until she had brought forth a Son, and he called His name Jesus.

King James Bible
And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

New King James Version
and did not know her till she had brought forth her firstborn Son. And he called His name JESUS.

New American Standard Bible
but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he named Him Jesus.

NASB 1995
but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus.

NASB 1977
and kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus.

Legacy Standard Bible
but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus.

Amplified Bible
but he kept her a virgin until she had given birth to a Son [her firstborn child]; and he named Him Jesus (The LORD is salvation).

Christian Standard Bible
but did not have sexual relations with her until she gave birth to a son. And he named him Jesus.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
but did not know her intimately until she gave birth to a son. And he named Him Jesus.

American Standard Version
and knew her not till she had brought forth a son: and he called his name JESUS.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And he did not know her sexually until she delivered her firstborn son, and she called his name Yeshua.

Contemporary English Version
But they did not sleep together before her baby was born. Then Joseph named him Jesus.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And he knew her not till she brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

English Revised Version
and knew her not till she had brought forth a son: and he called his name JESUS.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
He did not have marital relations with her before she gave birth to a son. Joseph named the child Jesus.

Good News Translation
But he had no sexual relations with her before she gave birth to her son. And Joseph named him Jesus.

International Standard Version
He did not have marital relations with her until she had given birth to a son; and he named him Jesus.

Literal Standard Version
and did not know her until she brought forth her Son—the firstborn, and he called His Name Jesus.

Majority Standard Bible
But he had no union with her until she gave birth to her firstborn Son. And he gave Him the name Jesus.

New American Bible
He had no relations with her until she bore a son, and he named him Jesus.

NET Bible
but did not have marital relations with her until she gave birth to a son, whom he named Jesus.

New Revised Standard Version
but had no marital relations with her until she had borne a son; and he named him Jesus.

New Heart English Bible
and had no marital relations with her until she had brought forth a son; and he named him Jesus.

Webster's Bible Translation
And knew her not till she had brought forth her first-born son: and he called his name JESUS.

Weymouth New Testament
but did not live with her until she had given birth to a son. The child's name he called JESUS.

World English Bible
and didn’t know her sexually until she had given birth to her firstborn son. He named him Jesus.

Young's Literal Translation
and did not know her till she brought forth her son -- the first-born, and he called his name Jesus.

I was in a heated debate a long while ago when I was specifically told that till or until meant the end,
it went no farther.... she remained pure.

So mix the trinity up with potential meanings and verses... just stay away from those that are known to change things
and always remember that we are cautioned to not add to or take away from the scriptures.
Click to expand...
So you're just going to criticize whatever version I use because none of them are perfect anyway. I mean, I can do that whenever you quote the Bible too. I can just ignore everything you wrote and go after the version you use. How is that helpful... or mature?
 
Runningman said:
It's translated as them being gods in the LXX and Jewish theology. Check it out.
Click to expand...
fine, but do you see it? .... "gods", .... them being gods, and not the true God. and what are these "gods?" 1 Chronicles 16:26 "For all the gods of the people are idols: but the LORD made the heavens." and Idols are what? NOTHING, 1 Corinthians 8:4 "As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one."

101G.
 
@DavidTree,
civic said:
It can only have one possibility or option.

Since we know God created man in His image alone, in His likeness alone not the angels.

So the plural US, WE, OUR must mean God is Plural in Persons.

This is their achilles heal.


DavidTree: said
Furthermore:

“I will be to Him a Father,
And He shall be to Me a Son”?
But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:

“Let all the angels of God worship Him.”
And of the angels He says:

“Who makes His angels spirits
And His ministers a flame of fire.”

“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
They will perish, but You remain;
And they will all grow old like a garment;
Like a cloak You will fold them up,
And they will be changed.
But You are the same,
And Your years will not fail.”
But to which of the angels has He ever said:

“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”?
Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation?
*******************************************************************************************************************************************************
First let's understand the bible ... God's Holy Word and he, God himself.
#1 "So the plural US, WE, OUR must mean God is Plural in Persons". ... MUST MEAN? answer NO, not at Genesis chapter 1 when he made man........ 101G suggest you both read Genesis chapter 1 again. listen, Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."
so, 101G has a question, how and when did God go from a US and OUR, (a plurality), verse 26, to a HE and HIS, (a singularity), verse 27.... and this is the very next verse. please enlighten us all.

but before you do, hear what the Lord Jesus has to say about this at Genesis 1:26 and 27. Matthew 19:1 "And it came to pass, that when Jesus had finished these sayings, he departed from Galilee, and came into the coasts of Judaea beyond Jordan;" Matthew 19:2 "And great multitudes followed him; and he healed them there." Matthew 19:3 "The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?" Matthew 19:4 "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,"
so, God who made man is a "HE", a single person who made man male and female.... according to the Lord Jesus ... WHO CANNOT LIE, right. if the Lord Jesus say that God is a single person at Genesis 1... especially at verses 26 & 27 why are we counting what verse 26 say OVER WHAT the Lord Jesus says? he said, God is a HE, a single person who made man male and female in the beginning. again, did the Lord Jesus LIE? no, God forbid. well the next step is to BELIEVE the Lord Jesus who is God and go back to Genesis 1:26 and find out why the verse says US and OUR. can we agree here. or will you stick to your plurality of three persons mistake and deny the Lord Jesus and call him a liar? or will you find out why the plural US and OUR is at verse 26.

your choice gentleman's. one can sit in IGNORANCE or stand up and repent and in standing, in TRUTH in the LIGHT of the WISDOM and KNOWLEDGE of God, the we can KNOW why US and OUR is at Genesis 1:26. AMEN.

the ball is you all court.

101G.
 
Runningman said:
I am using Scripture to prove that those to whom the word of God came are elohim. There are many more varied and nuance forms of the word god in Jewish culture than we have in the modern day. Thus, we have proven elohim isn't an exclusive for Lord God Almighty.
Click to expand...
So if they were Elohim is Christ more or less Elohim than they

Were they ever stated to do what God alone can do?

Did they possess titles that belong to God alone?

Did they receive angelic worship?

Don't be afraid to answer
 

Similar threads

Rowan
The Trinity The Touchstone of Truth
26 27 28
Replies
551
Views
6K
101G
101G
Cyrus
Your Views on The Trinity
48 49 50
Replies
983
Views
11K
TomL
T
M
It's Impossible to Believe in Christ Without Believing the Trinity
Replies
9
Views
55
101G
101G
civic
God is Love
2 3 4
Replies
64
Views
445
brightfame52
brightfame52
S
The misuse and abuse of John 17:3 by Unitarians to promote Unitarianism.
14 15 16
Replies
319
Views
2K
TomL
T
Back
Top Bottom