All of that introduction to come to your conclusion that the Son is Eternal. Yet it appears that He was not even called "the Son of God" until after He was born to Mary, which is what Gabriel announced in Luke 1:35.
Regarding Proverbs 30, the words "Surely you know!" appear to be a sarcastic remark mocking a man who claims to know much more than he actually does.
The same could be said with the previous verses: "Who has ascended ..., Who has gathered ..., Who has wrapped ..., Who has established ...? He appears to be mocking the arrogance of man in saying: Show me the man who has done these things. What is his name? and what is his son's name?
Instead of referring to the Father and His Son, this could easily be seen as mocking arrogant men.
Also if this WAS referring to the Father and His Son, and this was NOT sarcastic mocking, then WHAT WAS THE SON'S NAME? Apparently the author knew and suggested that whoever he was talking to also knew. But that name, Jesus, or The Son of God, was not even known prior to His birth in Jerusalem. Even the name of God, "Father", was quite rare in the Old Testament. Malachi 1:6 is one reference, but "Son" is not mentioned there.
Notice how consistent Scripture is placing the Son, not the man Jesus in the creation account of all things. We see the same thing below in Hebrews where the Son is the Lord who created the world and the heavens plural.
In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways,
2 but in these last days he has spoken to us
by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.
3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.
4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.
5 For to which of the angels did God ever say,
“You are
my Son;
today I have become your Father”
Or again,
“I will be his Father,
and he will be
my Son”[
6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,
“Let all God’s angels worship him.”
7 In speaking of the angels he says,
“He makes his angels spirits,
and his servants flames of fire.”
8 But about
the Son he says,
“
Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”
10 He also says,
“
In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
We clearly see the Father in the O.T.
Isa 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.
Isa 63:16 Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.
Deu 32:6 Do ye thus requite the LORD, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee?
Mal 2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?
And the Son
Daniel 3:25
He answered and said, “Look! I see four men loosed and walking about in the midst of the fire without harm, and the appearance of the fourth is like the son of god
Psalm 2:12
Kiss his son, or he will be angry and your way will lead to your destruction, for his wrath can flare up in a moment. Blessed are all who take refuge in him.
Proverbs 30:4
Who has ascended into heaven and descended?Who has gathered the wind in His fists?Who has wrapped the waters in His garment?Who has established all the ends of the earth?What is His name or His son’s name?
Daniel 7:13
“In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like the son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence.
Matthew 11:27: “All these things have been given to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father and anyone to whom the Son of Man decides to reveal him.”
“Matthew’s use of ‘know’ ([
epiginōskō is pronounced eh-pea-gih-noh-skoh, and the “g” is hard as in “get”] the present tense is gnomic, knowledge shared in eternal past, present, and eternal future) here is critical … it is likely that there is perfective force in the prefix [
epi] –with the meaning ‘know exactly, completely, through and through’ (BAGD, 291), with the added idea of recognizing and acknowledging” (comment on 11:27).
The bottom line is that the Greek present tense is timeless and supports the notion that the Father and Son knew each other intimately for eternity, in the past, present and future—forever. Jesus did not become the Son at his birth or baptism (
Matthew: Zondervan Exegetical Commentary on the New Testament [Zondervan, 2010], p. 440).
https://drjimsebt.com/2023/04/17/when-did-jesus-become-the-son-of-god/
John 5:26: For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. (
John 5:26)
This grant cannot be temporary because the Father also has life in himself eternally. Therefore the Son also has life in himself eternally–
just as the Father has this.
John 17:24:
24 Father, those whom you have given me, I want them to be with me where I am, so that they may see my glory which you have given me because you have loved me before the foundation of the world. (My translation)
Being a Father implies a Son. What was the Father doing before the foundation or creation of the world? He was loving his Son.
John 1:18 says: “No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.” Jesus more fully reveals their status and nature–Father and Son–beyond God and Logos. Therefore the Father was in heaven with his Son before the incarnation and birth.
Jesus says that he was in the presence of the Father: “I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence” […] (
John 8:38). The term “presence” can be translated as “alongside” or “next to” the Father. The point: they were in close relationship as we see in
John 1:1-2,
14 and 17:5. This relationship in the Father’s presence happened before the incarnation. To be the Father, he had to have at least one son in his presence. That Son is Jesus.
Hebrews 1:2 says: “but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.” That verse says that the Son was the person through whom God made the universe. He was the Son before creation, long before his birth. That verses also identifies who the Logos was in
John 1:1-4.
Hebrews 1:3:
The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being […] (
Heb. 1:3)
God’s radiance and his being are eternal because light that does not radiate is not light, and God’s being is not temporary with a beginning;
therefore the Son is also eternal
conclusion: this debate is over the Son is Eternal just as the Father is Eternal and the Holy Spirit is Eternal. We call Them the Trinity- One God, 3 Persons identified as Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
