The Trinity and all of its supporting doctrines are all circular in reasoning

[Doug Brents]

My thoughts are with me and my thoughts have been with me from my beginning of being on this website. Now I would have to be a fool if I thought my thoughts were another me or someone else.

LOL, that is an interesting twist to your original statement, but it does not fix the problems. Now, address the rest of the issues.

Your spirit has been with you since you started on this website. And you soul has been with you since you started on this website. And they ARE you. But they are not your body. Will your spirit still live if it is separated from your body? Sure it will.

The Logos is a spirit (because the Logos is God and God is a Spirit) that took on a physical body that we know as Jesus.

 

[Peterlag]

LOL, that is an interesting twist to your original statement, but it does not fix the problems. Now, address the rest of the issues.

Your spirit has been with you since you started on this website. And you soul has been with you since you started on this website. And they ARE you. But they are not your body. Will your spirit still live if it is separated from your body? Sure it will.

The Logos is a spirit (because the Logos is God and God is a Spirit) that took on a physical body that we know as Jesus.

The Bible does not say the logos is a spirit. So what we have here is you just making up stuff. Here's a partial list of how "logos" is translated in the New Testament...

cause, communication, sayings, saying, word, words, account, talk, question, treatise, intent, tidings, speaker, matter, mouth, work, utterance, preaching, speech, concerning, show, do, doctrine, reason, with, and thing.

 

[Peterlag]

1 Cor 6:19 - "Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God,"
The Holy Spirit is within the Church, but He was sent FROM God. But by your own admission He is God. He is NOT the Father, but He is God.

The words “HOLY SPIRIT” in the Bible are primarily used in two very different ways: One way is to refer to God Himself and the other is referring to God’s nature that He gives to people. God is holy and is spirit and therefore “the Holy Spirit” with a capital “H” and a capital “S” is one of the many “names” or designations for God. God gives His holy spirit nature to people as a gift and when HOLY SPIRIT is used that way it should be translated as the “holy spirit” with a lowercase “h” and a lowercase “s.” The Bible says there is one God, and one Lord, who is the man Jesus Christ; and one gift of the holy spirit.

 

[Doug Brents]

The Bible does not say the logos is a spirit.

The Bible says that the Logos is God, and God is a Spirit. So the Logos is a Spirit.
It also says that Jesus is a life giving Spirit (1 Cor 15:45).

 

[Peterlag]

I was thinking yesterday in my free time while making dinner how trinitarianism rejects conventional reason and logic, but then it occurred to me that if you assume their rules, their grammar, their definitions, and concepts that it is a kind of closed system.

For example, in trinitarianism:
A he/him/his/I/you isn't a singular person, but rather is more than one person.
An us/our/we/they/them is one person.
A this/this/which/this/it isn't a thing.
Firstborn begotten sons are eternal beings.
A human is God the Creator.
God means three persons, but three persons does not mean three gods.
The Son prays to the Father, but they are the same God.
The Son does not know something, but God knows everything.
The Son dies, but God can't die.
God sends God to pray to God.
God forsakes God.
God raised God from the dead.
God cannot be tempted to sin, but God was tempted to sin.
God cannot be seen, but people saw God.

None of these concepts fly in Scripture or in normal reasoning and I think arguing with them will only drive them further into the fringe. I say keep pushing. Normal people won't listen to this stuff. So the more wild they sound the more of a red flag what they say will be to normal people. That's where we come in. We present solid scriptural information that doesn't attempt to undo what people already know about normal reasoning.

Here's one you can add to this list that I got today. The word "Lord" does not mean "Lord" when it's used for other people.

 

[Doug Brents]

The words “HOLY SPIRIT” in the Bible are primarily used in two very different ways: One way is to refer to God Himself and the other is referring to God’s nature that He gives to people. God is holy and is spirit and therefore “the Holy Spirit” with a capital “H” and a capital “S” is one of the many “names” or designations for God. God gives His holy spirit nature to people as a gift and when HOLY SPIRIT is used that way it should be translated as the “holy spirit” with a lowercase “h” and a lowercase “s.” The Bible says there is one God, and one Lord, who is the man Jesus Christ; and one gift of the holy spirit.

So you are saying that the Father lives within the Church? Or are you saying that nothing lives within us, it is just His nature that He gives us?

Again, you are defying Scripture, and ignoring, or rewriting, passages that you don't agree with. Who is greater; you or God? Or is it that you believe you ARE God?

 

[Peterlag]

So you are saying that the Father lives within the Church? Or are you saying that nothing lives within us, it is just His nature that He gives us?

Again, you are defying Scripture, and ignoring, or rewriting, passages that you don't agree with. Who is greater; you or God? Or is it that you believe you ARE God?

Do you really think God is living in you?

 

[Doug Brents]

Do you really think God is living in you?

The Holy Spirit, the Comforter, the Helper, who is the Spirit of God lives within me, He guides me, He helps me understand His Word, He brings to my mind connections between one passage and another. I am His temple, and He dwells within me.

YES!!! I most certainly do believe that God, in the form of His Holy Spirit, lives within me.

 

[Peterlag]

The Holy Spirit, the Comforter, the Helper, who is the Spirit of God lives within me, He guides me, He helps me understand His Word, He brings to my mind connections between one passage and another. I am His temple, and He dwells within me.

YES!!! I most certainly do believe that God, in the form of His Holy Spirit, lives within me.

So you believe one part of the Trinity is you.

 

[Runningman]

Here's one you can add to this list that I got today. The word "Lord" does not mean "Lord" when it's used for other people.

Along with all of the non-standard word definitions and vocabulary there are a bunch of other logical fallacies they have as well. It's difficult to reason Biblically with that.

 

[Doug Brents]

So you believe one part of the Trinity is you.

I believe Scripture, and that is what Scripture says. Do you not believe Scripture?

 

[Ladodgers6]

John 12:39,40 quotes what Isaiah was told to say:

John 12
39For this reason they were unable to believe. For again, Isaiah says:

Isaiah 6:9,10 quotes what God told Isaiah to say.

Isaiah 6
9And He replied:
“Go and tell this people,
‘Be ever hearing, but never understanding;
be ever seeing, but never perceiving.’

Obviously this is a reference to what Jesus would do in the future, a messianic prophecy, not a quote from Jesus.

You're asking what I am asking you. This passage proves that Jesus isn't God and places him in the creation. Begin with Colossians 1:15. Obviously fully context says Jesus is the messiah, not God.

Critical thinking is what you said, right? In John 12, he says speaking of Isaiah, that He (Isaiah) saw His (the Lord's) glory and spoke of Him. John here is highlighting Jesus Christ's & His glory in Isaiah 6.

So, if we turn to Isaiah 6.

Isaiah’s Vision of the Lord​

1 In the year that King Uzziah died I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and the train of his robe filled the temple. 2 Above him stood the seraphim. Each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. 3 And one called to another and said:​

“Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts;
the whole earth is full of his glory!”​

4 And the foundations of the thresholds shook at the voice of him who called, and the house was filled with smoke. 5 And I said: “Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts!”

6 Then one of the seraphim flew to me, having in his hand a burning coal that he had taken with tongs from the altar. 7And he touched my mouth and said: “Behold, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away, and your sin atoned for.”

What you are missing is the Covenant of Redemption. God's Promise to His people & what he will do to redeem them.

 

[Peterlag]

I believe Scripture, and that is what Scripture says. Do you not believe Scripture?

You believe what is not Scripture because you don't know the difference between God and the gift of the holy spirit that is given to the Christian.